2 second slower
10-09-2012, 10:33 AM
#33
No its serious. i`ve watched new guy`s on the track trying to drive the car round the circuit. Then when the ask me how i can go so fast i look at their car. useally i can see it already when driving. Its always the car wich is not good. I do check the car and do a few adjustments to get the car to go straight and retweak it.
Its hard to believe it but i only get drivers wich tell me the car was transformed into something else?? And its all smiles.
Driving on streets is no comparison with the circuit where speeds are much higher. A car in the streets is crooked most of the time. It doesn`t need to be good also. When i put on the throttle mine car goes straight without steering adjustment, i only steer to turn.
So if you want me to help you at the track, just ask me.
See you there.
Its hard to believe it but i only get drivers wich tell me the car was transformed into something else?? And its all smiles.
Driving on streets is no comparison with the circuit where speeds are much higher. A car in the streets is crooked most of the time. It doesn`t need to be good also. When i put on the throttle mine car goes straight without steering adjustment, i only steer to turn.
So if you want me to help you at the track, just ask me.
See you there.
10-09-2012, 10:37 AM
#34
And now start having fun. The speed will come
10-09-2012, 11:03 AM
#35
Tech Regular
Don`t know about bertrand but, yes. Its no secret, and i`m no wizard also. Retweak it check for faults and get it straight. Done. I wait mostly for the new driver to ask help because of attitude like yours, Some people don`t want help or don`t believe its that easy. And now start having fun. The speed will come
And now start having fun. The speed will comeGive Volker a badly handling car and he will still be within 0.5 secs a lap.
Give a guy who is 2 secs per lap off the pace Volkers car, and guess what? He will still be 2 secs per lap off the pace.
2 secs is a massive margin, you cannot make this up with setup. Yes, you do need a well built car, but adding 1mm shims to increase the roll centre, or adjusting the oil in your shocks from 400cst to 425cst, or changing droop from 5 to 4.5, etc, etc will make zero difference to closing that 2 seconds!
Once you have a WELL BUILT car, go and practice, when you have the skills to get the gap under 1 sec per lap, then start playing with setups.
If you play with setups before being able to drive the car, you will confuse yourself, as realistically you will not be good enough to know what the setup changes are actually doing.
10-09-2012, 11:16 AM
#36
your completely right with what you say.
But this was not what was asked by the topic starter.
I can give Volker a car and he will be 100 sec off pace with the setup i do, you are a joker too, they are humans not magicians.
say rear toe-out 2mm, guess what? wanne bet
But this was not what was asked by the topic starter.
I can give Volker a car and he will be 100 sec off pace with the setup i do, you are a joker too, they are humans not magicians.
say rear toe-out 2mm, guess what? wanne bet
Last edited by djiewie; 10-09-2012 at 11:34 AM.
10-09-2012, 11:19 AM
#37
OK....go find that 2 seconds FASTER driver to drive your car...if he is driving your car and he is indeed 2 seconds FASTER then you, then you know it is your driving skill.
If he is only 1 second faster then your time...then it is your car, esc, motor and setup...(remember, his driving skill only work with his car, not yours).
If he is just as slow as you....SELL YOUR CAR and everything. Copy your friend's car and setup (and better yet, buy the same car as your friend does) so you can concentrate on your driving skill.
From my experience...it is mainly the car setup with the driving skill that slow you down.
If he is only 1 second faster then your time...then it is your car, esc, motor and setup...(remember, his driving skill only work with his car, not yours).
If he is just as slow as you....SELL YOUR CAR and everything. Copy your friend's car and setup (and better yet, buy the same car as your friend does) so you can concentrate on your driving skill.
From my experience...it is mainly the car setup with the driving skill that slow you down.
10-09-2012, 11:20 AM
#38
you are a joker my friend!
Give Volker a badly handling car and he will still be within 0.5 secs a lap.
Give a guy who is 2 secs per lap off the pace Volkers car, and guess what? He will still be 2 secs per lap off the pace.
2 secs is a massive margin, you cannot make this up with setup. Yes, you do need a well built car, but adding 1mm shims to increase the roll centre, or adjusting the oil in your shocks from 400cst to 425cst, or changing droop from 5 to 4.5, etc, etc will make zero difference to closing that 2 seconds!
Once you have a WELL BUILT car, go and practice, when you have the skills to get the gap under 1 sec per lap, then start playing with setups.
If you play with setups before being able to drive the car, you will confuse yourself, as realistically you will not be good enough to know what the setup changes are actually doing.
Give Volker a badly handling car and he will still be within 0.5 secs a lap.
Give a guy who is 2 secs per lap off the pace Volkers car, and guess what? He will still be 2 secs per lap off the pace.
2 secs is a massive margin, you cannot make this up with setup. Yes, you do need a well built car, but adding 1mm shims to increase the roll centre, or adjusting the oil in your shocks from 400cst to 425cst, or changing droop from 5 to 4.5, etc, etc will make zero difference to closing that 2 seconds!
Once you have a WELL BUILT car, go and practice, when you have the skills to get the gap under 1 sec per lap, then start playing with setups.
If you play with setups before being able to drive the car, you will confuse yourself, as realistically you will not be good enough to know what the setup changes are actually doing.
This is pretty much the only advice needed frim this thread. Build the car properly, get an experienced driver" that wins" to inspect your work then leave it the phuc alone until you are within 1-2 tenths every time. Absolutely nothing can take the place of practice.
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
#39
Speaking from experience, when you're a raw noob 2 seconds off the pace, that's actually easier said than done. All those little details and ambiguities take time to learn your way through. I've been racing for just shy of 3 years, and only for about the last year have I been able to put the same car with the same setup down on the track for the whole night and have it drive the same every time (changing grip levels aside).
I'd say the first three steps are:
1) Basic driving skills: be able to keep it off the boards, know your limits, be able to put in several clean laps between mistakes.
2) Learn how to get a repeatable setup on the car
3) More driving skills: push harder and build consistency
I won't speak about what's after step 3, since I haven't exactly figured that out myself yet.
EDIT: Oh yeah, once you can keep the car off the boards, and apply a consistent setup, tires and tire saucing are the most important.
-Mike
I'd say the first three steps are:
1) Basic driving skills: be able to keep it off the boards, know your limits, be able to put in several clean laps between mistakes.
2) Learn how to get a repeatable setup on the car
3) More driving skills: push harder and build consistency
I won't speak about what's after step 3, since I haven't exactly figured that out myself yet.
EDIT: Oh yeah, once you can keep the car off the boards, and apply a consistent setup, tires and tire saucing are the most important.
-Mike
10-09-2012, 01:22 PM
#40
Not really surprised the OP has not responded...so much anger in everyone...
No one here is really right or wrong, because none of us know the specifics the OP omitted in his/her situation.
If it is your first time at the track and you have never driven an RC car, then just putting the controller in your hand and driving is the first step.
If you have been at it a few weeks and can get around the track, but have never seen a ride height gauge and you have to turn the wheel 20* left for it to drive straight, then car setup matters.
If you have been at it a few more weeks and driving 12th scale with the white fronts black rears that came on the car, then tires might be important.
If you have been at it a few months, know some intermediate setup knowledge and your car is set up properly but you are just that far behind, then the answer is different again.
Also, 2 seconds a lap on a 6 second track running mod or a 25 second track running VTA? As someone else asked, is it 2 seconds off another guy in the C-Main with you or 2 seconds off a sponsored drivers fastest lap of the weekend? I have only been back to racing for a bit more then a year, but I find myself a half second off pace of the faster drivers in the club racing setting all the time. If I go to a bigger race (even a one day event with 40ish people) I can easily be a second off pace. Last weekend I was off 0.5 sec a lap in VTA on an 8 second track. That is a LOT! Spec tires and ESC. My skills are mediocre, but I couldn't even come near putting together a fast lap like some could. For me, car setup is the difference in fast lap. Driving skill is the difference in the number of laps in 8 min.
I do chuckle at all the responses that say driving is king, but qualify it only after you have a well setup car.
No one here is really right or wrong, because none of us know the specifics the OP omitted in his/her situation.
If it is your first time at the track and you have never driven an RC car, then just putting the controller in your hand and driving is the first step.
If you have been at it a few weeks and can get around the track, but have never seen a ride height gauge and you have to turn the wheel 20* left for it to drive straight, then car setup matters.
If you have been at it a few more weeks and driving 12th scale with the white fronts black rears that came on the car, then tires might be important.
If you have been at it a few months, know some intermediate setup knowledge and your car is set up properly but you are just that far behind, then the answer is different again.
Also, 2 seconds a lap on a 6 second track running mod or a 25 second track running VTA? As someone else asked, is it 2 seconds off another guy in the C-Main with you or 2 seconds off a sponsored drivers fastest lap of the weekend? I have only been back to racing for a bit more then a year, but I find myself a half second off pace of the faster drivers in the club racing setting all the time. If I go to a bigger race (even a one day event with 40ish people) I can easily be a second off pace. Last weekend I was off 0.5 sec a lap in VTA on an 8 second track. That is a LOT! Spec tires and ESC. My skills are mediocre, but I couldn't even come near putting together a fast lap like some could. For me, car setup is the difference in fast lap. Driving skill is the difference in the number of laps in 8 min.
I do chuckle at all the responses that say driving is king, but qualify it only after you have a well setup car.
10-09-2012, 01:43 PM
#41
Tech Regular
Assuming you have a comptetetive car that is well built and well maintianed with the right tyres then the most important thing is practice, practice, pracitce.
It is a sad fact however that no amount of practice will make all of us R/C superstars, don't try and find 2 sec per lap to keep up with the fast boys, it almost certainly won't happen, set a more realistic goal and try and beat the guy who is 2 sec per race ahead of you, from experience a hotter motor and advanced speedo settings will do nothing other than make you go faster between crashes.
The really fast drivers are not only 2sec per lap faster than you but their slowest lap time will be within a couple of thenths of their fastest, until you can get your avarage lap time within a second of your fastest then fine setup changes will make little or no difference.
Its hard to except the simple truth that the fast boys are just better than you.
PS I know my limitations
Bb
It is a sad fact however that no amount of practice will make all of us R/C superstars, don't try and find 2 sec per lap to keep up with the fast boys, it almost certainly won't happen, set a more realistic goal and try and beat the guy who is 2 sec per race ahead of you, from experience a hotter motor and advanced speedo settings will do nothing other than make you go faster between crashes.
The really fast drivers are not only 2sec per lap faster than you but their slowest lap time will be within a couple of thenths of their fastest, until you can get your avarage lap time within a second of your fastest then fine setup changes will make little or no difference.
Its hard to except the simple truth that the fast boys are just better than you.
PS I know my limitations
Bb
10-09-2012, 05:47 PM
#42
Not really surprised the OP has not responded...so much anger in everyone...
No one here is really right or wrong, because none of us know the specifics the OP omitted in his/her situation.
If it is your first time at the track and you have never driven an RC car, then just putting the controller in your hand and driving is the first step.
If you have been at it a few weeks and can get around the track, but have never seen a ride height gauge and you have to turn the wheel 20* left for it to drive straight, then car setup matters.
If you have been at it a few more weeks and driving 12th scale with the white fronts black rears that came on the car, then tires might be important.
If you have been at it a few months, know some intermediate setup knowledge and your car is set up properly but you are just that far behind, then the answer is different again.
Also, 2 seconds a lap on a 6 second track running mod or a 25 second track running VTA? As someone else asked, is it 2 seconds off another guy in the C-Main with you or 2 seconds off a sponsored drivers fastest lap of the weekend? I have only been back to racing for a bit more then a year, but I find myself a half second off pace of the faster drivers in the club racing setting all the time. If I go to a bigger race (even a one day event with 40ish people) I can easily be a second off pace. Last weekend I was off 0.5 sec a lap in VTA on an 8 second track. That is a LOT! Spec tires and ESC. My skills are mediocre, but I couldn't even come near putting together a fast lap like some could. For me, car setup is the difference in fast lap. Driving skill is the difference in the number of laps in 8 min.
I do chuckle at all the responses that say driving is king, but qualify it only after you have a well setup car.
No one here is really right or wrong, because none of us know the specifics the OP omitted in his/her situation.
If it is your first time at the track and you have never driven an RC car, then just putting the controller in your hand and driving is the first step.
If you have been at it a few weeks and can get around the track, but have never seen a ride height gauge and you have to turn the wheel 20* left for it to drive straight, then car setup matters.
If you have been at it a few more weeks and driving 12th scale with the white fronts black rears that came on the car, then tires might be important.
If you have been at it a few months, know some intermediate setup knowledge and your car is set up properly but you are just that far behind, then the answer is different again.
Also, 2 seconds a lap on a 6 second track running mod or a 25 second track running VTA? As someone else asked, is it 2 seconds off another guy in the C-Main with you or 2 seconds off a sponsored drivers fastest lap of the weekend? I have only been back to racing for a bit more then a year, but I find myself a half second off pace of the faster drivers in the club racing setting all the time. If I go to a bigger race (even a one day event with 40ish people) I can easily be a second off pace. Last weekend I was off 0.5 sec a lap in VTA on an 8 second track. That is a LOT! Spec tires and ESC. My skills are mediocre, but I couldn't even come near putting together a fast lap like some could. For me, car setup is the difference in fast lap. Driving skill is the difference in the number of laps in 8 min.
I do chuckle at all the responses that say driving is king, but qualify it only after you have a well setup car.
10-09-2012, 06:08 PM
#43
A good book to help you learn set up and how to correct to what your car is doing on the track is the XXX Main TC Set Up book.
Are you consistent? How close are all your lap times to each other? First thing if not, is to get consistent, fast comes after consistency. Making a hella fast couple laps but then being all over the board for the rest does you no good.
Are you consistent? How close are all your lap times to each other? First thing if not, is to get consistent, fast comes after consistency. Making a hella fast couple laps but then being all over the board for the rest does you no good.
10-09-2012, 06:21 PM
#44
A good book to help you learn set up and how to correct to what your car is doing on the track is the XXX Main TC Set Up book.
Are you consistent? How close are all your lap times to each other? First thing if not, is to get consistent, fast comes after consistency. Making a hella fast couple laps but then being all over the board for the rest does you no good.
Are you consistent? How close are all your lap times to each other? First thing if not, is to get consistent, fast comes after consistency. Making a hella fast couple laps but then being all over the board for the rest does you no good.
10-09-2012, 10:28 PM
#45
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (4)
Well, it is 10.5t in 1/10 on road class. The fastest guy on the track is 16.xx second per laps and i have 2 second gap. I have driven this car for a few month. I think i know some intermediate car setup and i own my setup system. Actually i drive with a relatively used tire that about 4-5 battery.
Just for some perspective, I also autocross with the SCCA quite a bit, and 2 seconds on a 60-70 second course is a huge margin.
In terms of setup for autocross, at the regional level, tires can give you 2 seconds, suspension/setup can give you maybe another 1 second.
If you were to scale that time down to r/c course times, theoretically speaking, you are gaining only 0.75-1.00 second AT BEST with the best setup/tires. Now there are exceptions, but as I've mentioned in earlier posts, you should have done your research in terms of what tires work best for a specific class, if your track uses a spec tire, then that can't be a factor.
You are 2 seconds off on a 16 second course. That is an absolutely colossal margin, relatively speaking.
Think about that for a minute.
While I'm not directing this squarely at the O.P., but you could be consistent but be consistently bad in your driving habits.
Are you using the entire track to maintain corner speed? Are you using the correct entry speed and not over-speeding into the corner? Are you hitting ALL of your apexes and staying on your line lap after lap? Are you applying the throttle at the exit so as you don't ever have to let off the throttle again until the next corner? Can you apply that throttle sooner? Can you brake later?
Pick one thing from above and improve upon it, and when you think you have done your best, ask someone faster to drive your car and observe. If you are at the same pace/technique on the fundamental skill you have chosen, then pick something else.