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Old 10-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #76
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I'm not going to get into the middle of all of this, but all I can say is PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. Observe the lines of the fast guys. If in doubt about something, ask someone if it doesn't seems right.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:06 PM   #77
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The most reliable way is to get a meter like the MMR which can read resistance while the motor is assembled, it's quick to connect and get an idea if the motor has been tampered with. Get the racers used to having their batteries checked before their heats, most of the time the threat of being caught is enough to prevent people from trying.
Thanks Mike, sounds good.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:06 PM   #78
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What about a Cheaters billboard .... That should stop this behaviour cold on its tracks.....
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:18 PM   #79
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to the organizer.....


If this is truely a problem (which is not far fetched by any means) You could always mandatory tech the winner or top 3 for legality. Also hitting everyone with a volt meter before going on the track to ensure battery voltage wouldnt take but a couple min. Which would also help ensure saftey, preventing possible lipo fire.

At the USVTA southern nationals I believe we had 121 entries over a 2 day race with 5 classes, 4 heats each and triple A mains. Before each race all cars were teched and battery voltage was very strictly checked.....which was a good thing.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:57 AM   #80
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We seem to be going a little off topic but it is always easy to assume that the fast guys are fast because they have some unfair advantage, while the truth is they have a natural ability and in most cases have years of practice.



I will tell a true story that happend at my local club last weekend.........

We are a small club with about 30 members we run sorex 28 with addative as a control tyre. A fast driver turned up and asked if he could use a different tyre and softer compound without addative as he wanted to practice with them for a forthcoming national championship.

In the first round he was up by 2 laps on our local guy (who has been racing for over 30 years thinks he knows it all because he sometimes wins, I'll change his name to "Ima Expert") A look at the lap times indicated there might have been a problem with the fast guys transponder but then it was realised that he had dipped under the fast lap defualt time several times.

After an amendment to the timing system and after 3 rounds of qualifying, the fast guy was 9 laps up on Ima with 29 laps. While the rest of us watched in amazement at the speed of the fast guy Ima was insisting that his pace was due to the unfair advantage he had from the softer tyres and the use of tyre warmers. The fast guy said that the tyre type and softer compound was infact a disatvantage but Ima was having none of it. Feed up with agueing the point with Ima the fast guy bolted a used set of sorex 28's onto his car and applied some addative.

First final the fast guy improve by 2 laps to 31 his lap times were all within a few hundreths even though he was lapping cars on almost every corner. Back in the pits Ima was still complaining, the fast guy looked at Ima car an said that the rear diff was not working correctly, there was no oil in the shocks and that why were all his electrics in waterpoof containers when we were racing indoors Not accepting that his car maintainace was the problem Ima now said that the fast guys motor and batteries were better than his, the fast guy reached into his lipo bag handed a battery to Ima and offerd to sell it, Ima refused.

The fast guy didn't stop for 2nd round of finals, don't know if he had found a set up he liked, had other places to go but he most definitely didn't want to waste any more time agueing with "Ima Expert"



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Old 10-12-2012, 06:03 AM   #81
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Often, the new guys to racing will get frustrated when they are a few seconds off the Leaders. The temptation is to make their cars faster and lighter to make up those seconds. This often leads to an even bigger gap

If you're new, start off with the kit setup and get the tires that the local guys are using. Find a good, "middle of the road" gear ratio for your car. If you're new and having to add a fan to keep motor temps down, you're geared too high. With this setup, start driving the car and make minor changes to get the car tuned in. Don't ask the locals to do it for you, but ask 'em questions..."My back end is loose out of the turns, would laying the shocks down help?" Don't worry about making your car faster until you are consistently taking clean lines and staying off the boards.

A well setup "slow" car in the hands of an good, experienced driver is going to be way faster than any "fast" car that is bouncing off the boards, taking wide turns or spinning out in the corners.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:34 AM   #82
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There are fast local guys, and there are fast international guys.... Nice story though, but if it was a tecched event, then I would wonder what secrets the real fast guy had uncovered.... None of them will really share their secrets !!!
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:26 AM   #83
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At all the places Ive raced over the years (off and on road), 99% will always be happy to share their "secrets", even at major events. They would rather have a race then just blowing away the field every time.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:31 AM   #84
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There will always be people who think equipment makes a bigger difference then it actually does.

At the highest levels raw talent is the secret. That's something you can't learn or buy into. Most of us will never reach that level no matter how much we practice.

Last edited by malkiy; 10-12-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:32 PM   #85
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There are fast local guys, and there are fast international guys.... Nice story though, but if it was a tecched event, then I would wonder what secrets the real fast guy had uncovered.... None of them will really share their secrets !!!
I know the person very welland I know why he is quick........he practised and practised and practised, then worried about setups.

No secrets, happy to share.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:33 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
There will always be people who think equipment makes a bigger difference then it actually does.

At the highest levels raw talent is the secret. That's something you can't learn or buy into. Most of us will never reach that level no matter how much we practice.
You are right, raw talent is super important, but that needs to be harnessed.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:55 PM   #87
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This will be my last post here as all it seems we're doing is feeding the troll and not really going any place constructive with this thread.

First, why would someone being able to work tech be able to get any "secrets" out of a pro's car? It's called "tech" for a reason, and having worked tech in some events in the past, it is actually a deterrent for anyone trying to slip anything under the radar. You're either playing by the rules, or you don't race, simple.

Sure, there will be differences in setup amongst all the top pros (I was at the REEDY TC race this year, I walked around and asked A LOT of questions), but the reality of it is, the adjustments to the cars are available to EVERYONE. Here's the kicker: none of the setups had a big or noticeable value amongst all the invitational guys and all the guys in the A-Main in open mod. What a shocker!

If anyone thinks it's motor, batteries, and ESC, here's a trend that would say otherwise: the fastest guys are actually choosing LOWER C-ratings on their batteries on outdoor tracks to control the abruptness of the power delivery.

With the advent of brushless and li-po, you can have all the power you could ever want, straight off the shelf.

The only "secret" that's left out there is ESC software manipulation. And if you think that will get you from pack fodder at your local races to IFMAR champion, then I've got a really nice laptop and snyc cable to sell you.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #88
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Ignoring the trolling/arguing going on, a bit of advice for not only the OP, but inexperienced racers.

Having raced only at a club level for a few years I found that I was running a decent pace compared to others, although I wasn't exactly quick, nor was I that consistent. I was running a good car back then (TRF415) with good electronics in the stock class and the car itself had good pace. I never really got into setups, rather I set the car up using a good baseline and making sure it handled consistently and didn't do anything surprising. The biggest issue was of course, me. Trying to drive quickly for 5 mins or so sounds easy, but you can easily mess it up if you don't concentrate properly, especially on a tight track. For example, our outdoor circuit had enormous curbs and hitting one of those would easily throw the car into the air or roll it even if you just caught it so your line was very important. I just used to try and drive at a pace where I didn't make mistakes and every week I improved as a result of my line getting better which in addition gave me more confidence to throw the car into the corner a bit quicker.

It's easy to get caught up with thinking setups/components make the difference but a lot of the time it is totally down to the driver. If you're capable of driving a car at its limit without making mistakes you'll be able to find some time with setup work. If however you are like me, and you cant run that sort of pace easily then get a good baseline on your car, tweak it a bit but concentrate on your driving more than anything else. Another important thing is to not get frustrated by being slower or not driving to the standard you want to be able to. If you do get frustrated you'll only make the problem worse by trying too hard.

Having been out of RC for the last 6 years, coming back and driving a car fast isn't going to be easy, so I'm planning on taking it slow and just focussing on not making mistakes. I'd rather finish a few laps down and run very close laptimes rather than be really fast, then crash, then drive slow, then fast, then crash again.

tl;dr Get good at driving first, then think about tweaking the cars setup.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:44 PM   #89
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tl;dr Get good at driving first, then think about tweaking the cars setup.
Having a good easy to drive baseline is uber important.

A new track near me recently opened up. I went up to check it out. One of the racers I knew asked me what I thought of his tc6. He had at least a thumb width of ride height, wasn't using the droop screws, didn't have his tweak correct, and his body wasn't trimmed properly.

I fixed all that I could without a setup station (I used an old spur gear to set droop), and he went out and immediately went a second a lap faster. Didn't spend a penny. Didn't practice a lap.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:45 PM   #90
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Having a good easy to drive baseline is uber important.

A new track near me recently opened up. I went up to check it out. One of the racers I knew asked me what I thought of his tc6. He had at least a thumb width of ride height, wasn't using the droop screws, didn't have his tweak correct, and his body wasn't trimmed properly.

I fixed all that I could without a setup station (I used an old spur gear to set droop), and he went out and immediately went a second a lap faster. Didn't spend a penny. Didn't practice a lap.
+1

First thing is to get a car set up "properly", meaning, if your ride height on each corner is different, your front is loose, your rear is locked, you have no oil in your shocks, and your belt is way too tight, your steering throw is 30 degrees on the left and only 20 degrees on the right, you can't drive the car, no matter how much you practice. You need a predictable car, and if the only thing you can predict is that you don't know how it is going to come out of that corner when you put the power on, that's not predictable....

Get a "reasonable" setup. Balanced....proper....doesn't have to be "tweaked" just driveable..... Once you have it driveable, then practice practice practice, check your setup so that it hasn't changed through wear and tear/hitting things....practice some more, until your lap times are within 5%. Once you can hit that kind of consistency, THEN you can start tweaking. Otherwise, you will never know if the setup tweak was what made the difference, or did you just get a couple of lucky laps in....

Once your car is predictable, and your driving is predictable, THEN you can start tuning the car for those extra 1/4 seconds each lap....
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