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Old 10-08-2012, 09:03 PM   #16
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They all will play a huge part in your lap times... Start changing things and seeing if you get faster or slower, then change something else, etc. your driving skill will improve with your setup
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:05 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mb3195 View Post
How about e) letting the faster guy though
Maybe the faster guy should improve his skills so he can go around.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by b.wihardja View Post
When you have 2 second slower per lap than the other, what priorities would you do to keep up with the other?
A. Driving skill
B. Tyre
C. Esc setting
D. chassis setting
Are you new? It's probablly equal parts A and D. You don't know what it's supposed to handle like, driving skills aren't awesome, and you likely have a sub par setup.

Everyone drives better in a properly setup car. Make friends with one of the faster guys who drives the same chassis as you do, get him to run a couple of laps. Ask his advice.

Most importantly, take it.

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Originally Posted by -Dutch- View Post
Maybe the faster guy should improve his skills so he can go around.
Kind of off topic, but:

I got shoved in the boards at the IIC in the last three rounds by two different scrubs who I was seconds per lap faster and showed extreme courtesy - followed for a couple laps so I could set them up and pass them off line and on the straight where the other driver didn't even have to give up a corner, just hold their position in a straight line. All of them broke my cars for the trouble.

Part of that was my own fault for not getting my ish straight before the resort, had I done that I'd of never been in a position to get smacked around by a guy who has been racing less than a month. The other guys just sucks. I'm sure neither of them had a car that handled properly.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:50 PM   #19
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First, being 2 seconds off the pace in the C-Main at your local club race and being 2 seconds off the pace at Reedy Race are two different things.

That said, all the answers are inter-connected, truth be told.

It's difficult to drive a clean, consistent lap with a car that you are fighting all the time.

Tires really should not be an issue: you should be running what the fast drivers are running unless there is something about those tires that make the car harder to drive for you. Chances are, unless the drivers have sponsorship obligations, there is THE one tire to have for a particular track.

From that point on, I would go to your "baseline" i.e. stock setting.

First, make sure that your laps are clean and crash free. Then make sure that your TIMES are consistent, then make sure your LINES are consistent. Only then should you worry about where you can make up some time and make chassis adjustments accordingly. Chassis adjustments are always a compromise, so you will have to figure out where and what adjustments should be made with the least overall compromise.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:13 AM   #20
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I AM SORRY TO INFORM ALL OF YOU GUYS THAT YOU ARE ALL ”WRONG” !!!!!!!! THIS IS THE WAY TO GET BETTER :
A) MAKE A LIST OF ALL SETUP ADJUSTMENTS AND WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISH IN A RC CAR !
B) GET ”RC CREW CHIEF SOFTWARE” ASAP !!!! TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW THESE ADJUSTMENTS WILL AFFECT YOUR CAR !
C) GET AS MANY TOP RACERS SETUPS, AND ANALYZE THEM CAREFULLY TO SEE WHAT THEY WANT THEIR CARS TO DO !
D) CHOOSE A STARTING POINT SETUP BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT YOUR CAR TO DO, AND DO ONE ADJUSTMENT AT A TIME TO LOWER YOUR LAPTIMES....
E) PRACTICE THE RIGHT WAY AND RECORD YOUR PROGRESS !
F) BE CONSISTANTLY PATIENT ! DON'T EXPECT TO BEAT OTHER RACER'S LAPTIMES YOUR FIRST YEAR RACING !!!
G) TRY TO HAVE FUN, EVEN WHEN YOU ENDUP LAST, AND UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DID NOT FAIR ANY BETTER !!! STOP BLAMING THE CAR !!!!
H) GOOD BODY FITNESS IS A MUST HERE TO CONTROL YOUR NERVES, YOUR VISION, ETC......
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:50 AM   #21
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:04 AM   #22
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Maybe both......
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:18 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
I AM SORRY TO INFORM ALL OF YOU GUYS THAT YOU ARE ALL ”WRONG” !!!!!!!! THIS IS THE WAY TO GET BETTER :
A) MAKE A LIST OF ALL SETUP ADJUSTMENTS AND WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISH IN A RC CAR !
B) GET ”RC CREW CHIEF SOFTWARE” ASAP !!!! TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW THESE ADJUSTMENTS WILL AFFECT YOUR CAR !
C) GET AS MANY TOP RACERS SETUPS, AND ANALYZE THEM CAREFULLY TO SEE WHAT THEY WANT THEIR CARS TO DO !
D) CHOOSE A STARTING POINT SETUP BASED ON WHAT YOU WANT YOUR CAR TO DO, AND DO ONE ADJUSTMENT AT A TIME TO LOWER YOUR LAPTIMES....
E) PRACTICE THE RIGHT WAY AND RECORD YOUR PROGRESS !
F) BE CONSISTANTLY PATIENT ! DON'T EXPECT TO BEAT OTHER RACER'S LAPTIMES YOUR FIRST YEAR RACING !!!
G) TRY TO HAVE FUN, EVEN WHEN YOU ENDUP LAST, AND UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DID NOT FAIR ANY BETTER !!! STOP BLAMING THE CAR !!!!
H) GOOD BODY FITNESS IS A MUST HERE TO CONTROL YOUR NERVES, YOUR VISION, ETC......
I wouldnt agree with this at all!

The truth is, practice is by far the most important thing.

Setup isn't as important as a well built car, having a car which is well built with an easy to drive setup is very easy to achieve, only when you are within 0-5-0.8 secs per lap to the leading drivers is when setup starts to make any difference. I know from personal experience that I can drive a car that is 4 secs per lap off my pace in someone else's hands and get to within 0.4 - 0.6 secs of my car when I drive it - this 3.4-3.6 seconds gained is down to driving skill, which comes from practice (and natural ability).

Regarding setups, dont pay any attention to what team drivers are using, or even what the local fast guys are using, again, there skill levels are 2 secs per lap quicker than yours, meaning their cars will be that much more difficult to drive, actually slowing you down as you will be crashing more. Again, from personal experience, when a lower level driver drives my car, they cant even get round the track - as my car is setup to be aggressive, again to make it quick.

First things first, take your time to build a good car, make sure it is well maintained, all the bearings are clean, the wishbones move freely, no tweak, shocks have no air, diff works properly, etc.

Once you have this, it is all about practice, practice, practice. Without this, you can have the best car in the world, but you will still be 2 secs per lap off the pace.

And to the original poster.....Brian I believe it is, you know me well - next time I see you, come and ask for help and we'll get things sorted.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:42 AM   #24
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My post was only for those who don't blindly follow others, but want to find their own way. You can't practice with an ill setup car and think you'll get better ! In the end, your personality will determine whether you want to lead or follow. I choose to lead myself with the help of a few tools like Rc crew Chief software, top advice, and some decent quality tracktime...
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:50 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
My post was only for those who don't blindly follow others, but want to find their own way. You can't practice with an ill setup car and think you'll get better ! In the end, your personality will determine whether you want to lead or follow. I choose to lead myself with the help of a few tools like Rc crew Chief software, top advice, and some decent quality tracktime...
i dont get what you mean about lead or follow.

I didnt say practice with an ill setup car, I said practice with a well built easy to drive setup car.........big difference.

RC crew is lovely, but wont make 0.1secs difference unless you can get round the track properly first. It may do when you are chasing 0.1secs, but the original poster isnt, he is chasing 2 secs, again a big difference.

I'm not questioning what you are saying when you have reached a ceiling to what you can do, but being 2 secs a lap off isnt a ceiling, the majority of this will be skill level.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:04 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mb3195 View Post
I wouldnt agree with this at all!

The truth is, practice is by far the most important thing.

Setup isn't as important as a well built car, having a car which is well built with an easy to drive setup is very easy to achieve, only when you are within 0-5-0.8 secs per lap to the leading drivers is when setup starts to make any difference. I know from personal experience that I can drive a car that is 4 secs per lap off my pace in someone else's hands and get to within 0.4 - 0.6 secs of my car when I drive it - this 3.4-3.6 seconds gained is down to driving skill, which comes from practice (and natural ability).

Regarding setups, dont pay any attention to what team drivers are using, or even what the local fast guys are using, again, there skill levels are 2 secs per lap quicker than yours, meaning their cars will be that much more difficult to drive, actually slowing you down as you will be crashing more. Again, from personal experience, when a lower level driver drives my car, they cant even get round the track - as my car is setup to be aggressive, again to make it quick.

First things first, take your time to build a good car, make sure it is well maintained, all the bearings are clean, the wishbones move freely, no tweak, shocks have no air, diff works properly, etc.

Once you have this, it is all about practice, practice, practice. Without this, you can have the best car in the world, but you will still be 2 secs per lap off the pace.

And to the original poster.....Brian I believe it is, you know me well - next time I see you, come and ask for help and we'll get things sorted.
Great post.

Setup changes are a tiny part of a car's performance - a car built well to kit settings with the right tyres and powerplant for the track will always be well within 2 seconds of the pace.

The big time gaps are in driving. And you improve your driving with practice and an understanding of what a fast racing line is - not by buying a new servo mount. Just watch the fast drivers and see how neat and tidy and slow their cars always look. If you're missing apexes, you're losing time, simple as that.

I'll echo your experience - I can drive other people's cars, or have a major handling problem with my own car, but I would rarely lose more than 0.5s a lap to what I would do with a "perfect" car.

PS Best to ignore what bertrandsv87 has to stay. He pops up in the Mini thread from time to time with crazy ideas.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:59 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b.wihardja View Post
When you have 2 second slower per lap than the other, what priorities would you do to keep up with the other?
A. Driving skill
B. Tyre
C. Esc setting
D. chassis setting
Most important is D. only with a good setup on the car will you have fun and you won`t be hitting things, other drivers, and you get disappointed because everone is going much faster than you. So get a good driver to setup your car for you.

B tire, learn how important tire`s are and the right preparation is a huge differance.

C esc setting, when the lines are easy than settings come into play.

A. driving skill, this will come eventually when the above are dealt with.

Wish you Fun and good luck.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:57 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
Most important is D. only with a good setup on the car will you have fun and you won`t be hitting things, other drivers, and you get disappointed because everone is going much faster than you. So get a good driver to setup your car for you.

B tire, learn how important tire`s are and the right preparation is a huge differance.

C esc setting, when the lines are easy than settings come into play.

A. driving skill, this will come eventually when the above are dealt with.

Wish you Fun and good luck.
i take it this is a joke post?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by djiewie View Post
Most important is D. only with a good setup on the car will you have fun and you won`t be hitting things, other drivers, and you get disappointed because everone is going much faster than you. So get a good driver to setup your car for you.

B tire, learn how important tire`s are and the right preparation is a huge differance.

C esc setting, when the lines are easy than settings come into play.

A. driving skill, this will come eventually when the above are dealt with.

Wish you Fun and good luck.
So by your and bertrandsv87 logic, you can take ANY car and set it up such that any guy off the street can run it? Right.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #30
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You have to have a stable car to start driving first. Then its all about track time.


1. If you are new don't be a rebel. Buy the most popular car at your local track. This will ensure you can get setup help.

2. Ask around and get a setup sheet for what works well at your track. Carefully assemble the kit and put the local set up on it. Make sure you comply with every detail of the setup so you car is identical to what is listed. A setup is a combination of settings that come together to make a car work properly on a certain surface with a certain tire and body. If you miss anything the result will be less than ideal.

3. Ask around for a friendly local racer (hopefully and A-Main guy) to look your car over. Give him the setup sheet and you car.

4. If you are good to go sauce your tires as on the setup sheet with the tire compound listed on the setup sheet for the time listed...yes...on the setup sheet. Wipe the tires and go for an easy drive.

5. Now its all about track time and practice.

At first just try to stay in the groove on the track but do not cut the corners close. This will come with time. You will be more consistent and turn more laps if you just try not to crash. The fastest drivers are not driving full punch everywhere and treating the trigger like an on off switch.

Its sounds wrong but you have to slow down to speed up. If you drive too hard into corners you will blow the line and your lap times will suffer. You need to get a feel for what the car can handle and stay in the limits. Even in 17.5 Blinky or VTA.

After every run make sure everything is ok, straight, etc... you will get a feel for what to look for over time. Maintain the car. Bad bearings can make a car drive poorly, so can bent hinge pins, bent suspension mounting screws, drive shafts that are coming apart, missing c-hub screws, etc...

Racing touring cars is challenging. You have to take the time to learn how and why everything works.

If you want easy r/c racing get an RC10SC Truck, put Ryan Maifield's setup on it and just race it.
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