R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-21-2005, 11:19 AM   #1
Tech Elite
 
BigDogRacing's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,955
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to BigDogRacing
Default Take it easy on ROAR guys

First I want to point out that the Nats was ONE RACE. ROAR may have fallen a little short on this one, but it's no reason to boycott our largest and arguably best sanctioning body in the US. If everyone got the hatchet for dropping the ball once in a while none of us would have a job!! Nobody is perfect and we learn from our mistakes. I'm extremely disappointed about the negative remarks and malicious posts here on RCTech.

I put my heart and soul into promoting r/c in the Memphis area. Our local club has chosen to go full ROAR sanctioning this year so we can have the racer insurance and the potential for holding regional races here. Our flyers, schedules, and cards have our website on them and we have a link on the front page of our website straight to our forum here on RCTech. The last thing I need is for newbies and racers to get on here and see all this complaining about something they have invested 30 clams or more for and think we have steered them wrong on purchasing ROAR memberships.

I totally agree with KennyB and the other ROAR reps that the ones complaining should get involved instead of stripping ROAR of their credibility. Even though I already take time away from my family and cheat them of money so I can support our local club, I for one am going to try to do all I can to make ROAR a better establishment.

I'm not rich by any means (financially at least) so I can't do a lot to help there, but some of you guys on here do have money. If you work all the time or have too many sticks in the fire then make a contribution to help ROAR work out some of these problems. I believe it's pretty obvious that ROAR could use more reps at the big races and these guys most likely don't have the freedom to just up and kick down cash for plane tickets, hotel rooms etc to get the job done. Help them out. How about the manufacturers and companies that make money on these races. It may be conflicting for them to contribute to ROAR so why not offer to sponsor a representative to attend the race. That way it's a tax write-off for advertising and totally seperate from actually giving money directly to ROAR.

THere are a number of track owners/ hobby shop owners and race directors that know what it takes to hold a Nats size race. You guys could collectively establish a guideline for not only the minimum requirements a track must meet but go so far as to generate a racing outline and a book of things to expect when holding a national level race that aren't normal issues at club level races.

Complaining is cheap and it turns people off, but intelligent problem solving requires commitment and brings racers together to promote our hobby. I may not be the smartest person in the r/c community, but I will and do pride myself in promoting the hobby.

I've told our local guys this and I'll post it here for everyone to see. Our hobby, on every level, is at a turning point. In years past it has grown, subsided, and overall been on a roller coaster of growth. But over the last few years it has steadily grown. We are at a turning point RIGHT NOW. If we work together and don't allow the problems of the past to happen again, it will make a huge jump. Everyone must make a choice- either to allow it to subside again or take the initiative to push through the problems and take a quantum leap to the next level. A level of exposure we have never been to!! We have the basics, lets build on it.
BigDogRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 12:16 PM   #2
Tech Elite
 
Brandon Melton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NC
Posts: 2,506
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brandon Melton
Default

BigDog- Very well said. I have been one to keep my mouth shut while reading all the bickering. It does sound bonehead moves on the track owners part, but many people can sell themselves really well. Few tracks submitted bids, and maybe on the cover this place looked very good.

People have said that no track should get a race without experience. I disagree with this. IT DOES help for the racer to know that they are going to a reputable place, but doesn't mean that new race directors can't run a clean race.

Perfect example- 2003 onroad nats. Not the best neighborhood, CERTAINLY not the best announcing and "atmosphere" of feeling like your at the premier ROAR race of the year, BUT, the race had not one single glitch ALL week. The software and computer scoring was perfect, and the schedule posted was almost to the minute of the advertised start and end time for the day and week. This track probably "shouldn't" have received the race, but as far as operational goes, was the best race I have been to on the dirt, carpet, or asphalt ever.

With so few tracks wanting to participate it's trial and error of which track will be the best choice, but most of the proven RD's have their own non sanctioned event going on already.
__________________
Team Associated~Reedy~Werks Racing~Pro-Line~Competition Suspension Inc.~Schelle Racing Innovations
Brandon Melton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 03:08 PM   #3
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

I think that the quality of descision making over the last few years has left an overall bad taste in a lot of people's mouths

--the badly worded foam tire rule that allowed the 2002 carpet nats to run rubber when everybody wanted foam

--2 different sets of 19t rules that seem to have left the motor companies indifferent to trying to get a motor approved

--This year's track selection for the carpet race

--allowing prototype brushless motors, vs. an approval process

--The body controversy for the worlds

Then when any issue is raised, the reply is that they are only volunteers. Also, if you have any complaint, you should voluteer for something.

I agree that a little help would go a long way. They did, however, sign up for the job! Just because you are not paid, you are not absolved of responsibility. Just because ROAR does not actually run the race or track, does not mean they have no responsibilty for an event. I just think this is a good opportunity for ROAR to reexamine itself. Year after year, The Snowbirds and Cleveland make money. Yet we hear that tracks lose money on big races with ROAR. We should look at these other races to see what they do right.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 03:29 PM   #4
Tech Addict
 
BadBoyRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Northern Califiornia | Bay Area
Posts: 532
Trader Rating: 2 (75%+)
Default

Who cares about ROAR?

Nobody only 150 racers voted on the officials..

so now your stuck with them.. so quit your whining.. bet you the guys who whine didn't even open their revup magazine.
BadBoyRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 03:34 PM   #5
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Unfortunately for you, and me, ROAR generally sets the standards for rules. I know there are a lot of places that deviate, but most tracks say "ROAR rules" even if they aren't ROAR tracks.

PS I read the REVUP whenever it comes.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 04:14 PM   #6
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

My revup with my ballot came AFTER the deadline to vote had passed....


Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 04:34 PM   #7
Tech Addict
 
carkillaii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 687
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by EddieO
My revup with my ballot came AFTER the deadline to vote had passed....


Later EddieO

I Thought I was the only one that happend too
carkillaii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 04:58 PM   #8
JKA
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,000
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default Re: Take it easy on ROAR guys

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDogRacing

I totally agree with KennyB and the other ROAR reps that the ones complaining should get involved instead of stripping ROAR of their credibility.

If you work all the time or have too many sticks in the fire then make a contribution to help ROAR work out some of these problems.

Complaining is cheap and it turns people off, but intelligent problem solving requires commitment and brings racers together to promote our hobby.
Let me start by saying that your intentions are great. I've no beef there.

However, the blanket excuse referenced with every complaint, "get involved" , holds little weight. The very nature of ROAR only allows legitimate involvement by the majority of its members during the voting process which is flawed to the point of excluding many and burdening others to the point of not voting. I've went round and round with Roar reps about numerous issues and offered any help I was allowed. Never once was I asked to help and never once were my offers accepted. I understand that the membership must be involved for any organization such as this to be sucessfull, but the system itself must be structured in a manner that allows the membership to make contributions.

The money issue is not one of insufficient funds, but rather an issue of poor budget management and misguided expenditures, namely Rev-Up. As often as these issues are brought to the forefront and often times acknowledged my members of ExCom they are never remedied and remain problems compounding with each new member.

Finally I'll agree that intelligent problem solving is undoubtedly one of the key ingredients to a prosperous ROAR. However, no matter how smart a solution may be or how ingenious an idea might seem none of them matter unless they are applied.

Implementation of many of the memberships wonderful suggestions has been of late the biggest hangup in the progress of Roar. No matter how many people submitted Logos for the new logo contest, no matter how many people offered their IT or graphic design skills to implement a new more functional website, and no matter how many people justified logical changes in the way ROAR functions its all boiled down to a select few (ExCom) being left with power to make change and implement progressive ideas.

To date they haven't, and I blame this on the structure of the ROAR leadership. That issue however is always met with the reply, "Thats how ROAR has always functioned."

Things change, ROAR needs to change with them. Unless you can influence those with the authority to make change to actually do so, we'll not see ROAR complimenting the very respected EFRA within the IFMAR structure. The most unfortunate part is, the only way we as members are currently afforded the opportunity to push the necessary changes is speaking our mind.

Which brings us right back to the begining. The product of ROARs structure leaves its members with only complaints as their means of contribution.
JKA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 06:51 PM   #9
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Posts: 444
Default

As a newb to the indoor arena, I think its pretty sad that a National event received this little attention from the sanctioning body.

Ok so they gained lots of attention from the 'exception' to the rules, but would it have mattered? as from the sound of things the sanctioning body was not there to enforce the rules anyways.
MartynD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 06:53 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
BigDogRacing's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,955
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to BigDogRacing
Default

Keith I have no argument with anything you stated. You obviously have more experience with ROAR than I do since I have none other than being a member. Truth is, after Eddie O mentioned it, I think my Rev up was too late to vote as well. I guess I jumped the gun there, but that's small beans right now.

So here's where we start the problem solving. Can we come up with a short list of possible solutions for each of the major issues? You mentioned there were some professionals that offered their expertise on past issues- what kind of volunteers will we need to put new ideas together for ROAR? I have made my own proposals in the past but nothing ever came of it.

I'll begin by being the first with an idea- it won't be my last, but I need time to think through some points... and let's keep this thread and these ideas positive- malice will accomplish nothing. Criticism does NOT require negativity, on the contrary constructive criticism requires a positive attitude. Agreed?

--- I feel strongly that an outline for a national level event could be implemented. I realize that some aspects may be a little generalized, but for the most part, and especially for tracks/race directors that have never held a national event it would be golden. Scotty Earnst, Mike Boylan and numerous other RDs known for their excellent race mangement undoubtedly have a formula for estimating time and race scheduling. It may sound simple- 5min+3min=8min/round*number of heats...etc etc, but there is more to it than that- such as statistical number of minute calls, a safe amount of leeway for unexpected problems etc. Not to mention the things that need to addressed months prior to the event. I'm no commercial electrician but I know a good electrician can tell you how to figure out if you'll have the power required to support the # of racers, or at the very LEAST include the information the RD needs to give to a local electrician so he can do the electric assessment of the building. How about a bank of ideas/resources for the RD to pull from for advertising, race schedule, promotion etc? Most track owners/RDs that I know don't have a degree in marketing. There are many key points I'm not hitting that someone with that experience WILL know. I'm sure Scotty could keep us tied in knots telling stories about his first big races.

So far, there are a lot of ways ROAR can improve the execution of National level races, but one thing I've seen so far is totally unexcusable- the fact that the tech equipment didn't make it to the track. That must be confronted immediately and never let it happen again. Which reminds me of somethign else that might be added to the Nats Outline- a suggestion for the number of techs the track will need and even a submission form for the track to send to ROAR with the promise of said individuals and signatures whether they be paid by the track owner or volunteers. These will obviously be in addition to the ROAR tech that must be in attendance.
BigDogRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 06:54 PM   #11
TCR
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
Posts: 552
Default

manufacturers are forced to send there racers to these events, which brings in other racers, etc,

Matt Francis started a very interesting thread on the trinity forum about ROAR and it's problems.

When 2% of your members vote, thats a problem.

Imagine if we elected our officials with only 2% of the vote. It's like all I would have to do is get my city to vote for me and I could be president.

Events not sanctioned by ROAR have become much more fun and a better expierence for all, without the membership fee.

The approval of brushless for open mod is a cataclysmic step in the worng direction for r/c.

Brushless motors are great, there advantages are well documented.

But they Absolutly must remain in there own class. Even in there own class it's extremly unfair because of there nature.

someones brushless system will always be better, Lrp now, maybe novak again, maybe tekin comes along and so on. The point is you are going to have to keep buying these new brushless systems to keep up with the jones's.

Then theres the damage it does to the independent motor manufactures. Most of whom can't afford to develop there own brushless motor systems.

It hurts the industry as a whole. It's the primary reason I will boycott roar events, the very body that runs the industry have deceided to blantenly hurt there industry. WHY????

allowing brushless in open mod is equilivant to having buggies run with Trucks, it's just plain dumb.

how do we fix this???
ROAR has slammed into the ground.
let them die.
Let the new NORRCA body take over and see if things can get better.

NORRCA seems like they will actually listen to there members, there rules were made by members, for the members.
TCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 06:56 PM   #12
Tech Elite
 
BigDogRacing's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,955
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to BigDogRacing
Default

Thanks MartyD, but let's try to keep this thread moving toward positive solutions. There are plenty of other threads to post your complaints or observations. I certainly mean no offense to you, just trying to keep this thread from going the way of the rest...
BigDogRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 07:00 PM   #13
TCR
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
Posts: 552
Default

Btw the cactus classic does not require a ROAR membership, and every off-road driver who was forced to run at this poorly run roar race, would have much rathr been at the cactus where they would of had a lot more fun.....
TCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 07:01 PM   #14
Tech Elite
 
BigDogRacing's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,955
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to BigDogRacing
Default

TCR, repost your post in teh brushless thread and I'll discuss my thoughts on it with you.
BigDogRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 07:04 PM   #15
TCR
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
Posts: 552
Default

Didn't mean to go brushlees rant there, but its just a piece of the major problems with ROAR.

people race r/c for fun, Right???

ROAR is not all that fun, all these non-sanctioned races smash anything roar seems to put together
TCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anybody recognize this esc? This one ain't easy. Bob-Stormer Electric On-Road 17 02-28-2008 11:54 PM
It ain't easy Impulse_racer Electric On-Road 29 12-10-2007 11:30 PM
Easy Wraps andrewdoherty Painting, Designs, Graphics and Photography 25 01-05-2006 09:55 PM
Looking for a fast fun and easy car kit. KingWild1 Rookie Zone 10 09-28-2004 02:53 AM
Do not trade with easy e HauntedMyst Buyer/Seller dispute and Feedback discussion forum 1 12-21-2001 08:29 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:58 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net