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Old 03-19-2005, 09:02 AM   #16
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Originally posted by vtl1180ny
THERE IS NO MOTOR WITH TRACTION CONTROL OR ANTILOCK BRAKES!!!!! YOU'D NEED SENSORS ON ALL 4 WHEELS!!!!!

There's enough posts pertaining to this already.....

Get your facts straight pertaining to brushless motors, you have no clue how they work!!!!!
I have been trying not to say anything but this guy is a tool! He goes everywhere and argues about brushless to the death.
Dude chill out and read some you just like to argue! Read the entire post before replying. Its like you pick what you want out of it and run with it!
Bet that vette in the picture isnt yours !

I bet he'll attack me again!!
He's a Lawer or something!



Robk that was funny you trouble maker taking other peoples post and making fun!







there is a flame comming!
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Old 03-19-2005, 09:11 AM   #17
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You turn off the carousel.
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Old 03-19-2005, 09:16 AM   #18
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Originally posted by Fastfreddy74
This can be done even on brushed motors....
Brushed motors dont have a sensor to tell the speed control what its doing.
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Old 03-19-2005, 10:55 AM   #19
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wel then again for while until novak brought it out brushless didnt either. so if sum company finds sensored brushed motors are better (for performance and business) im sure theyll bring um out. adding a sensor to a motor isnt the hard part
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Old 03-19-2005, 11:17 AM   #20
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How do you stop an army of Losi Drivers on horseback?
I'll bite...... HOW????




BTW: If all the Associated drivers and Losi drivers teamed up in a war agianst X-Ray drivers.... and the Associated/Losi guys thru grenades at the X-Ray drivers what would the X-ray drivers do???............................................. ................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .... .................................................. .................................................. .... .................................................. .................................................. ... .................................................. .................................................. .... .................................................. .................................................. .... .................................................. .................................................. .... ...............................................Pul l the pins and throw them back.....
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Old 03-19-2005, 12:27 PM   #21
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:28 PM   #22
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wow isnt this thread a barrell of fun
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:48 PM   #23
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i thought anti-lock brakes for rc cars is something simple like the servo pulsing on a nitro car whenever you pull back the trigger to a certain point, so maybe you can set up certain esc's to pulse the brake on and off real quick whenever full brake is applied.
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:58 PM   #24
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Problem is, no brushed motor has a sensor, and I doubt one would pass the approval process.....and even then, the motor would have to have a controller that was compataible with its sensor to even read it, then of course it would have to have some type of way to utlize the information.....

I highly doubt you will see novak start making such speed controllers, let alone LRP (a no, you would not be able to use their current dual use ESC, totally different type of sensor that you cannot replicate on a brushed motor, unless of course, the brushless guys and my engineer are lying to me).....

Brushless motors already have this sensor and a direct connection with their controller, as they are mostly sold as units...


ABS may be a bit of stretch, but a form of it can be developed....and could work.....how useful it would be, is another story....

Traction control on the other hand, can and will be done....with little to no way to detect it. I am sorry, argue all you want...I will take the word of mulitple motor guys I have talked to, both brushed and brushless....and my engineer who is an MIT graduate....


Later EddieO
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by EddieO


ABS may be a bit of stretch, but a form of it can be developed....and could work.....how useful it would be, is another story....

Traction control on the other hand, can and will be done....with little to no way to detect it. I am sorry, argue all you want...I will take the word of mulitple motor guys I have talked to, both brushed and brushless....and my engineer who is an MIT graduate....


Later EddieO
How is ABS any different from Traction control? Both require methods of detecting wheel slip. Especially for R/C cars, where both braking and acceleration are done by the motor, ABS and Traction control would be the same thing, only in different directions- one is for acceleration, one is for deceleration.

Can you explain why they are so different? Maybe ask your MIT graduate friend. I would think both systems would require wheel sensors to function. Knowing the motor speed is not enough (having some sensor on the motor). How would you know when your tires are slipping? You are only measuring how fast your drivetrain is rotating, without comparing it to the ground speed! There's not enough information to provide true traction control.

In fact, you have it backwards. It may be EASIER to implement some sort of very basic ABS system than it is to implement traction control. With only motor speed sensors, it is possible to detect and eliminate lockup (zero motor speed), and I don't see that ever happening in electric r/c cars, since it's not necessary to use the brakes that extensively, and the braking duration (if any) are usually very short.

There are all sorts of control systems you can already implement into r/c cars today, with Brushed motors, but nobody does it. Why? Maybe they don't have the knowledge or don't think it's necessary. All this backlash against Brushless motors is due to fear stemming from ignorance. People are afraid because they *MIGHT* have to learn new things to stay competitive.
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Potato
There are all sorts of control systems you can already implement into r/c cars today, with Brushed motors, but nobody does it. Why?
Beacause it is not legal under current rules. With a sensor already hooked up to a brushless motor for the speed control to control it, it is super easy to write a program that will can sense a time v acceleration algorithm that can slow down the motor until it comes back to the predetermined value. It could also be done the other way to control braking.

The reason why people keep bringing up traction control is people feel it would be more of an advantage with our cars than braking control.
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:21 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
Beacause it is not legal under current rules. With a sensor already hooked up to a brushless motor for the speed control to control it, it is super easy to write a program that will can sense a time v acceleration algorithm that can slow down the motor until it comes back to the predetermined value. It could also be done the other way to control braking.

The reason why people keep bringing up traction control is people feel it would be more of an advantage with our cars than braking control.
A time vs. acceleration algorithm is not a true control system. You are not sensing wheel slip and adjusting to it. You're simply mapping the throttle curve. This can be done with current brushed motors, so it's really no different. The only difference is that you can control more precisely the motor speed with a feedback loop from the sensor in the case of brushless motors, but essentially a throttle curve can be done already with brushed motors.
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:24 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
I have been trying not to say anything but this guy is a tool! He goes everywhere and argues about brushless to the death.
Dude chill out and read some you just like to argue! Read the entire post before replying. Its like you pick what you want out of it and run with it!
Bet that vette in the picture isnt yours !

I bet he'll attack me again!!
He's a Lawer or something!



Robk that was funny you trouble maker taking other peoples post and making fun!







there is a flame comming!
Who's the Tool??? Don't we have enough posts already pertaining to this subject????

Considering I was the first response, there was no "entire" posts to read.... This post should have never been started...

And yes, I argued for a living....

What I did for a living is none of your business...

The Vette is mine as is the house....

You want to argue, we can... You'll lose....
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:49 PM   #29
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Well.....

ABS is a braking system.....helping you retain traction for consistent braking so the car does not lose control. While it does have a traction element to it, it's a different system all on its own.....

Traction control on the other hand is based on wheel spin during accerlation.....you are starting not, stopping. If you can control power output to provide the optimal amount of grip and accelaration.....you've got a functional traction control system.

Long and the short of it....thats why my ferrari has both traction control AND ABS, as do lots of other top sports cars....they are two totally different things. If they weren't, companies would not design and produce them as two different systems....

And while traction control could be heavily utilized, especially in offroad and outdoor touring car.....abs on the other hand, really wouldn't do much in my opinion, as we really don't have a real braking system on electric cars...I am not saying some form of it could not be done, I just don't know if it would be useful...

Currently, brushed motors have access to current limiters and driver frequency adjustment....they are hardly any type of useable traction control and I hesistate to even call it that.....there is a reason none of the top racers use the current limiters.....they simply don't work worth a crap, but its an added feature that helps sell speed controllers...I have seen people successfully use them to prevent dumping if they crash a lot and still pull on the trigger to get unstuck...


Later EddieO
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Old 03-19-2005, 05:15 PM   #30
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Ive already got traction control and ABS, all inbuilt. All about that left thumb!
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