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Old 05-12-2013, 11:24 AM   #106
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Ok I think I understand everything but the start... How do you line them up.. So the start is as fast as possible as this is not full lap?... We start 1/2 away from the scoring loop...

GOT IT... Everyone starts from the same line.... Correct? Like they do for the figure 8 at the birds...

What I really like is this the idea of 1 Qualifier the rest is heads up... or no Qualifier, just heads up, with say changing your starting position.. So if you start 1st for round 1, then Round 2 you start last, and Round 3, you start in the middle...
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #107
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Ok I think I understand everything but the start... How do you line them up.. So the start is as fast as possible as this is not full lap?... We start 1/2 away from the scoring loop...
For IFMAR qualifying, everyone has their own clock, and their first lap starts when they cross the loop. But for mains, the scoring software will probably ignore the first pass over the loop for every car. We start our mains lined up in qualifying order just behind the loop, so the first lap is usually a bit slow compared to the rest. It is possible for the guys in back to use a little more power during the first lap without breaking out, but fiddling with the radio while in the heat of battle usually just causes sloppy driving.

We often start the mains inverted, to make things more interesting.

I also like the idea of little or no qualifying, and more heads-up races. Final results could be determined with a points system.

Personally, I find that the more I run Breakout, the less I care about the finishing positions. As long as I'm having a good race with someone, I'm having fun!
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:50 PM   #108
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For IFMAR qualifying, everyone has their own clock, and their first lap starts when they cross the loop. But for mains, the scoring software will probably ignore the first pass over the loop for every car. We start our mains lined up in qualifying order just behind the loop, so the first lap is usually a bit slow compared to the rest. It is possible for the guys in back to use a little more power during the first lap without breaking out, but fiddling with the radio while in the heat of battle usually just causes sloppy driving.

We often start the mains inverted, to make things more interesting.

I also like the idea of little or no qualifying, and more heads-up races. Final results could be determined with a points system.

Personally, I find that the more I run Breakout, the less I care about the finishing positions. As long as I'm having a good race with someone, I'm having fun!
Here is a link of the start of an oval break out race, which caused me to think of no qualifying... Heads up all every round... Link
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:16 AM   #109
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Here is a link of the start of an oval break out race, which caused me to think of no qualifying... Heads up all every round... Link
Is that a cardboard box going around the track?!

Our Breakout races have much cleaner driving!
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:44 PM   #110
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Holy [email protected]! That's some ugly racing! It's a free-for-all! That one car does look like a cardboard box...
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:38 PM   #111
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I here ya... but I was more interested in the start... As in NO Qualifier.... Points at the end of the day....
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:20 PM   #112
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Is that a cardboard box going around the track?
I think it might be a casserole dish.

We're going to try some breakout racing over the summer. Should be a good time!
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:17 AM   #113
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I here ya... but I was more interested in the start... As in NO Qualifier.... Points at the end of the day....
Your suggestion was well-timed. The owner of the local track (Fastlane) was talking about doing this at the last race I attended, without me even mentioning it!

I'm used to the idea, since we used to run karts like that: Three races, first starts in random order; second race starts inverted from the first start; third race starts with positions determined by the finishing order of the first two races. Final position is the aggregate of all three. We could start the last race inverted to make it more fun!

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I think it might be a casserole dish.
If it is, I've definitely been "one-upped" on the crappy-car concept that I mentioned in post #105!

And speaking of my crappy car, it TQ'ed and won the last oval race. I'm excited to see if I can do the same with it in an onroad race!
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:06 PM   #114
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I just dusted off my ABC DTM 1/24th-scale cars, and I am considering putting some carpet in my basement for practice this winter. It brought back old memories of racing at the Hobbytown in Denver (at Alameda and Union) with Brett and the gang. We ran it using weight handicaps, just like the real DTM series. The winner of each race had to add 3 nickels (15 grams) to his car for the next race, and the second place car added 2 nickels. Fourth place and lower could remove a nickel for the next race, if the car already had a weight handicap.

I grew concerned when I found that my car was actually faster with 5 nickels (due to the lower center of gravity), but when I got up to 10 nickels the car was slower, so the handicap did finally work. I finished the season with 43 nickels on the car, which almost exactly doubled its weight. It's not easy fitting 43 nickels on a car that's only 6 inches long!

If we had been able to run Breakout instead of a weight handicap, it would have eliminated the hassle of fitting all of that weight to the car!
But it was so much fun trying to jam more nickels in under the little body. If memory serves, we capped the ballast at 50 nickels (250 grams or about half a pound) in a car that was 6" long. They really were like bricks. When we took the weight off at the end of the season, they were little rocket ships! And it turned out I could drive it!
It was the cheapest "go-fast" hop up ever!
Thanks for the great racing experience and great memories!
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:41 PM   #115
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I am going to pitch this fantastic idea to Hobbytown Westminster (Colorado) this week! I am so excited about it! Thanks for sharing it!
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #116
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The ABC DTM may run in anger again in the near future! I never got around to moving enough junk out of the way in my basement to put down the carpet I bought, but RCTech user GeicoGecko, A.K.A. "The Stig", has installed a very nice track for his Mini-Zs in his basement, and I tried it out just a few days ago. (I stopped by to drop off one of my lap timing decoders, described in one of my other threads, so he could do some beta testing.) I can't afford a Mini Z at the moment, so the ABC DTM will have to do. The basement races are run as Breakout, so the differences in car speeds won't affect the results (otherwise the DTM would have a Mini Z for lunch!)

The Stig has written some additional code for the Flipside scoring software so it now has a Breakout mode; if a car turns a lap faster than the breakout time, the computer automatically and immediately calls out the name of the driver and the lap time, so that throttle adjustments can be made without needing to stop and look at the computer's monitor. Cool!
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Old 06-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #117
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So Howard, I took a page from your play book for today's races. I took along two old touring cars (xxxs and TA05), with the intent of loaning them to novices. As I was setting up my tent, along came two boys, each carrying a vintage Tamiya car (super hornet and ???). They announced that they had entered the novice class and they started to practice. Before too long, their batteries had died, and they were getting set to go home. I handed them each a controller (with the endpoints set appropriately) and told them to try these cars. They raced all day, and their lap times improved dramatically! I raced in the novice class, with a breakout time set to a time about 2 seconds below their best time. We all had a ball! I was driving my M05 (over geared, but no spares) with a radio without endpoint adjustment. So I thought, what would Howard do? I found a piece of foam and taped it behind the throttle trigger to make a physical stop. It worked great. I did breakout twice, and that really made me work on slowing down and so our race was a lot of fun. I am looking forward to next weekend!

This has changed my race-day objective from winning to having fun.

Thanks for starting this thread!

Last edited by Marc L.; 06-23-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:25 AM   #118
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So Howard, I took a page from your play book for today's races. I took along two old touring cars (xxxs and TA05), with the intent of loaning them to novices. As I was setting up my tent, along came two boys, each carrying a vintage Tamiya car (super hornet and ???). They announced that they had entered the novice class and they started to practice. Before too long, their batteries had died, and they were getting set to go home. I handed them each a controller (with the endpoints set appropriately) and told them to try these cars. They raced all day, and their lap times improved dramatically! I raced in the novice class, with a breakout time set to a time about 2 seconds below their best time. We all had a ball! I was driving my M05 (over geared, but no spares) with a radio without endpoint adjustment. So I thought, what would Howard do? I found a piece of foam and taped it behind the throttle trigger to make a physical stop. It worked great. I did breakout twice, and that really made me work on slowing down and so our race was a lot of fun. I am looking forward to next weekend!

This has changed my race-day objective from winning to having fun.

Thanks for starting this thread!
That's awesome! It sounds like you may have two new racers joining the ranks. I guarantee you that those kids will remember what you did for them for the rest of their lives, and will do the same for someone else when they can.

You're a brave guy loaning out touring cars. There are a whole lot of things to break on those! But there's no beating 4WD on a parking lot track. ANY action for an old race car is better than sitting in a closet or on a shelf. Ain't it great that you can still have fun, and help promote the hobby, using "recycled" stuff?

Yesterday was, for me, one of those days where my two loaner cars were the difference between having a great time and making the long drive to the track for nothing. My two "invitational" drivers were a world-class TC driver (he won the IIC a couple of years ago) and the kid that works at the hobby shop (who also happens to be an excellent driver). I took TQ and held the lead until about one minute to go. One slight tap on the board entering the straight and I went from first to third, and that's how we finished. The separation from first to third was never more than one second!
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #119
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This has changed my race-day objective from winning to having fun.
That's a wonderful comment. In any race, only one guy can win. But everybody can have fun!

I usually calculate my race results using the IOF (Index Of Fun). It's similar to the Index of Performance at the 24 Hours of Lemans, but with a less complicated formula: The guy who is giggling or smiling the most wins.

I am very rarely beaten in the IOF competition.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:29 AM   #120
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By running the class as a breakout, it created an interesting problem for the "fast guy" (me) that I hadn't considered until I actually ran it. This is something that I think will really make a lot of experienced racers scratch their heads and makes the class a LOT more interesting.

Here's the situation: you are leading by 1/4 lap, and then you breakout. All of a sudden, you are a lap down on the leader. Because of the breakout time, you can't just pull the trigger and lay down a few fast laps to catch back up. You have to put your head down and run the most consistent laps that are not too fast, but just fast enough. And it is possible that you may never catch up.

It was an interesting challenge! It is especially tricky if your car is over geared, you have no throttle end point adjustment, and no way of knowing your lap times! Every time I passed the timing loop I was praying to hear the beep that let me know that my lap was above the breakout time.

A high IOF level to be sure!
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