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Old 03-23-2005, 10:51 AM   #871
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Quote:
Originally posted by David Alberico
7.2V brick packs are coming, say goodbye to cell matching.
They will come out with a way to cycle and rate those too.
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:16 AM   #872
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:23 AM   #873
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie
I have a question, Who the heck came up with this thing about "Progamming the ESC" to make the brushless faster??? That is NOT the case, and if it is, it will be a Normal Feature of the ESC, Noone will need a laptop to do it. At least thats our goal. Tuning can still come from the motor, there is timing, and winding, and wires, and air gap and lots more.


This Voodoo about the Software makeing the ESC faster is CRAP, and needs to stop being spread.

To address the comments about magnets, even Roar Legal mod motors have Some rare earth magnet in them, it's impossible to get the gauss readings from a standard "legal" magnet that the motors do. They are "juiced" up magnets and have been for a very very long time.

Brushless shouldn't be shunned, it's here to help the hobby grow, now one motor and one ESC, to race a season, and spend your Com and brush money to travel, or at least buy new tires and bodies all the time.......

Less maintenance is a big deal to somepeople. You can run pack after pack after pack after pack and always have the same power over and over again, that helps a ton with tuning on a chassis. But what do we know right.
Charlie, I'm not saying it's gonna make the motor go any faster, but the throttle curves and such are more easily manipulated with a brushless sensor based system, making the car a bit more difficult to tune for a novice if the factory defaults aren't exactly perfect for their application. My Dad flies electric airplanes so there are other little issues I'm aware of too, but I won't even begin to open that can of worms becuase it's just not worth it.

I have no problem with brushless when it's been properly analyzed and approved by ROAR. Hell I'm beginning to warm up to it, because I'm just gonna bring you all my stuff to program!!!

Ian
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Old 03-23-2005, 11:26 AM   #874
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
They will come out with a way to cycle and rate those too.
Rather than matching packs, you'll be rating entire pack!, DOH! this one sucks there goes $74.95!! Hope this one turns out better.............

The only hope is that they have enough power and runtime that slight differences between packs won't mean anything.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:08 PM   #875
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KennyB i sent you a p.m., please let me know in an e-mail or phone call what you think. - D.A.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:14 PM   #876
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Originally posted by CypressMidWest

The only hope is that they have enough power and runtime that slight differences between packs won't mean anything.
I remember saying that when we went form 1400s to 1700s, and then 1700s to 2000s, then 2000s to 2400s. I quit saying it after that.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:44 PM   #877
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Originally posted by Jack Smash
I remember saying that when we went form 1400s to 1700s, and then 1700s to 2000s, then 2000s to 2400s. I quit saying it after that.
I kept saying that too, but if we run 11.1 volt Lipoly batts we're gonna have more power tha we can possibly put down, at least for awhile anyway.......
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:45 PM   #878
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Quote:
Originally posted by David Alberico
7.2V brick packs are coming, say goodbye to cell matching.
Actually, they're 7.4V because Lipoly cells are 3.6V/cell. I've been doing some research, and correct me if I'm wrong... but LiPo's have far less fluxuation in average voltage and runtime from one to another. There will be a little advantage in that the latest greatest cells will be available to the ones that are already getting the newest stuff but I'm not sure right now how much better they will get. I do believe the runtime will go up as they explore the technology in the future. There will also be an issue with policing the approved cells because they all look the same. There are no shrinks and measurements to identify certain cells, just stickers that are easily changed. However, LiPo coupled with brushless technology will make for some interesting carpet racing where the traction is wickedly high. LiPo's have phenomenally lower AiRs than any wet electrolyte chemistry cell we have used to date, and brushless mod motors have superb torque and will continue to get better- add those together and you might see Toss and Mike Blackstock hangin the arse of their TC's out like a Sprint car coming onto the straight!! LOL Well, not really cause they have mad skillz but there will be some serious power getting laid down. There are plenty of advantages to Lipo too- I'm still waiting on some testing results, but from what I understand the cell degredation over about 100 cycles is very little with the high C capable cells which means you won't need to replace your packs after only 30-50 cycles because the IR has shot up, and it also means you won't have to demote your race packs to practice packs after only 20 cycles which is about how long it takes for the zapping to go away and the numbers get back to average virgin cells. Plus, much lower IR means less throttle application which means longer runtime out of the same capacity pack.
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Old 03-23-2005, 12:58 PM   #879
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie
I have a question, Who the heck came up with this thing about "Progamming the ESC" to make the brushless faster??? That is NOT the case, and if it is, it will be a Normal Feature of the ESC, Noone will need a laptop to do it. At least thats our goal. Tuning can still come from the motor, there is timing, and winding, and wires, and air gap and lots more.


This Voodoo about the Software makeing the ESC faster is CRAP, and needs to stop being spread.

To address the comments about magnets, even Roar Legal mod motors have Some rare earth magnet in them, it's impossible to get the gauss readings from a standard "legal" magnet that the motors do. They are "juiced" up magnets and have been for a very very long time.

Brushless shouldn't be shunned, it's here to help the hobby grow, now one motor and one ESC, to race a season, and spend your Com and brush money to travel, or at least buy new tires and bodies all the time.......

Less maintenance is a big deal to somepeople. You can run pack after pack after pack after pack and always have the same power over and over again, that helps a ton with tuning on a chassis. But what do we know right.
charlie, i disagree with you on the timing and profile issue, and yes i realize you work for novak. I have been around brushless long before it made it into the car and truck end,(airplanes), Timing can and is adjusted either via the speedo or the laptop, Laptop can more fine tune it than the profiles on the brushless ESC, You can change a lot of parameters on a brushless via a PC that will make it "faster" than the guy next to you who is only using the esc to tune it. just my .02
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:01 PM   #880
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Charlie, I'm not saying it's gonna make the motor go any faster, but the throttle curves and such are more easily manipulated with a brushless sensor based system, making the car a bit more difficult to tune for a novice if the factory defaults aren't exactly perfect for their application. My Dad flies electric airplanes so there are other little issues I'm aware of too, but I won't even begin to open that can of worms becuase it's just not worth it.

I have no problem with brushless when it's been properly analyzed and approved by ROAR. Hell I'm beginning to warm up to it, because I'm just gonna bring you all my stuff to program!!!

Ian
Exactly!
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:04 PM   #881
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie
I have a question, Who the heck came up with this thing about "Progamming the ESC" to make the brushless faster??? That is NOT the case, and if it is, it will be a Normal Feature of the ESC, Noone will need a laptop to do it. At least thats our goal. Tuning can still come from the motor, there is timing, and winding, and wires, and air gap and lots more.


This Voodoo about the Software makeing the ESC faster is CRAP, and needs to stop being spread.

To address the comments about magnets, even Roar Legal mod motors have Some rare earth magnet in them, it's impossible to get the gauss readings from a standard "legal" magnet that the motors do. They are "juiced" up magnets and have been for a very very long time.

Brushless shouldn't be shunned, it's here to help the hobby grow, now one motor and one ESC, to race a season, and spend your Com and brush money to travel, or at least buy new tires and bodies all the time.......




Less maintenance is a big deal to somepeople. You can run pack after pack after pack after pack and always have the same power over and over again, that helps a ton with tuning on a chassis. But what do we know right.
This should end all talk about brushless, ummm i think novak know what they are tlaking about. But about that programming to make the motor faster, could you make a motor with less winds??? Or is there some setting that would take it to far and might kill the motor/esc?? Kinda like you guys set it to the safe setting???
Less maintenance is a big deal to somepeople. You can run pack after pack after pack after pack and always have the same power over and over again, that helps a ton with tuning on a chassis. But what do we know right.
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Old 03-23-2005, 01:42 PM   #882
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Quote:
Originally posted by v2_drag
This should end all talk about brushless, ummm i think novak know what they are tlaking about. But about that programming to make the motor faster, could you make a motor with less winds??? Or is there some setting that would take it to far and might kill the motor/esc?? Kinda like you guys set it to the safe setting???
Less maintenance is a big deal to somepeople. You can run pack after pack after pack after pack and always have the same power over and over again, that helps a ton with tuning on a chassis. But what do we know right.
I'm sure Charlie can shed more light on this, but they have the ability to totally control the torque and rpm limiting of the motors. However, I believe they are pushing to perfect different motors with a max output that will be similar to our current stock, 19t etc. The reason for that is obvioulsy so we can still have the spec classes with spec motors and people like Eric Anderson (lol-j/k EA) won't go in and bump the rpm's etc. For those that don't know, EA has a degree in electronics or electonic engineering or something like that- that's why I mentioned him. He's an excellent tuner.

Charlie or someone else please correct me or share more info if I'm FOS...
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:09 PM   #883
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What? Curves and profiles, Your are really starting to reach for something to complain about now aren't you. Profiles and all of that only effect FEEL not speed.

What the heck do you think we do now with ESCs, and regular motors. You change the profiles to effect how the motor reacts. Brushless IS NO DIFFERENT> THE ESC DOES NOT MAKE IT FASTER< JUST DIFFERENT. Cripes! It's not majic, it's not voodoo, it's physics.

The motor make the power, the ESC simply supplies the Juice BOTTOM LINE. The ESC can make the motor slower or react different, but it cannot make a slow motor fast. Man if you figure out how to do that, please let us know, we'd love to release a product like that.
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:26 PM   #884
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Old 03-23-2005, 02:29 PM   #885
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Charlie can you give any comments on my last post above? I would like to hear what you guys are working on and your thoughts on my points.

We appreciate you taking the time to correct ideas and help out with questions on here. I know you stay pretty busy at work.
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