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Old 03-21-2005, 06:13 PM   #691
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so finally, what I can I say about all my ramblings.

It sucks and I'm frustrated that so many racers and spectators traveled a great distance and spent a ton of money on an event which they all feel was lower than our expectations. So whats the solution, should we quit? or do we stick with what we got to try and fix the problem. Now that the complaining is all out there take some time and post some constructive comments to your ROAR official.

Those volunteers that represent the members of ROAR racers will continue to do their jobs as best as they can to promote a level playing field of racing.

PS: on second thought, what happens if everyone involved in ROAR should quit. lets think about it.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:19 PM   #692
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me personally, dont think time was an issue, as more of a misuse of time. There was no reason why they could not run that many races in a decent amount of time. Problem was they said they would start at one time and would not start to later. A round was talking what 4 or 5 hours. After a round they would take a 1/2 break, why? anyone who had broke would have more than enough time to fix thier car. Saturday, they annouced they would run lower mains Sat Night. But never said anything about what mains. Everyone had to sit and wait and hear rumors anything from B main and lower to D main and lower. No one knew. And as usuall a lack of information will start a lot of rumors. Then they decided after the last race, we are going to do all mains Sunday. Start at what time? No one knew where they sat. Until in the morning and even then the listings were wrong. What time did they start Sunday? 11:30 or so I think, they were supposed to start around 10 I believe. Then by running all the d mains together and c mains and b mains, you had many racers that were in back to back races. What is the solution? 10 min break. You want to know where the time went? Simple math 6 of those cost another hour. Why didn't they run all stock mains together B, C, D etc, then 19T , then Mod etc. You would not get the people in back to back races.

Tech is not even worth talking about. Is was useless there. I have no problem with racers checking each other as you said top 3, however too many friendships and there would still be things said later " oh yea, the guy was on this guys own team he did not fail him" etc. But if they have tech before and after each race they need to have some sort of check off sheet. As it was you could go straight to the track and no one would know any different, same with radios.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:23 PM   #693
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PS: on second thought, what happens if everyone involved in ROAR should quit.

Would make mine and everyone elses day. then we could get some ppl in office who has a clue.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:25 PM   #694
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Impound was laughable. Before the first race I gave them my radio. when I went to retrive it they couldnt find it and then brought me out a box of radios and asked if it was any of those. It wasnt, at that point I had to go back and find it myself. After that I didnt impound my radio becasue I didnt want to deal with the mess. Most racers that I saw didnt impound on sat or sunday either.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:26 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Giordano
PS: on second thought, what happens if everyone involved in ROAR should quit. lets think about it.
What would happen if the racers just up and quit supporting ROAR.....Think about that.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:30 PM   #696
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and to think that some of you guys want longer races
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:34 PM   #697
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What would happen if the racers just up and quit supporting ROAR.....Think about that.

we would stop having bad races..
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:37 PM   #698
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Did Jon Orr continue to use the brushless system? How was the run time comparable to using a brushed motor? And what type was able to put down the fastest lap? I haven’t heard anything about the races with all of this complaining about ROAR, maybe you guys should start up a new thread...
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:37 PM   #699
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Why can't ROAR have a few people to over see races, or at least give some travel money to the Regional Directors. They could still be volunteers, but with $204,234 in revenue last year and $174,137 in expenses, they could send someone.

Maybe have at least one member of the Ex-Comm at each race to oversee things.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:38 PM   #700
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Well, I've had a day to reflect on the whole thing and I'm still super tired and don't have it all sorted out but here's somethings I find funny with this whole discussion (and it seems to be the same old general problems I see with lots of things, especially on the internet).

-Let's start with "how bout posting results". If you had read any of this thread, you'd see that the "results" have been posted a few times so I don't know what else your looking for. They are unofficial... that's for sure but that's what you have right now. I've heard through the grapevine that there is now a protest of the brushless win so we'll have to see what comes of that (whether its true or not included).

-I for one was frustrated with how long it was running and in the heat of the moment was even vocal about it. I admit now, that I was wrong for a fair amount of it because I'm sure there were things going on that I nor most of us were aware of. One of the most valuable things I've learned working in the capacity I do is that there is almost always a lot more to what is happening than what appears to the average person. Please always try to keep that in mind before you say things that you really don't know that much about or that have an adverse effect on a much larger picture.

-Lets put all the small stuff aside for a second and talk about the problems with the actual race. Scoring, Tech, Maintainence, and other things have come up in nearly every race I've seen ROAR sanctioned or not. Not because of peoples incompetance but merely because things happen. Scoring systems will crash, tracks will come apart, etc. There were things that were happening at this nats that were certainly not done well but I'm absolutly positive that NO ONE that had anything to do with running the race had ill will or bad intentions and was doing it on purpose. As a racer it is certainly frustrating but rarely do I see any of the people put down their soda and try to help. At Nats, there was one person I did see help when they were having scoring issues. This person has recieved no recognition from anyone here (I know its also because most of you weren't there), probably (although I could be wrong) not from any racers at the track, and although he was in 3 a-mains, he took it upon himself to do whatever he could to help out. He did it with no self interests, not because of personal or team gain, just so that it would get going again. Thanks should readily go to Mike Dumas for helping. Mike is someone that rarely seems to get credit for what he's done or helped others to do. I'm sure there were probably a couple others that I didn't see that were also helping but it seems that when the proverbial S#!% hits the fan, most of us (me included sometimes) go back to our pits or wander around. Mike and others like him are examples of the racers we should all strive to be.

-As for the "other" incidents that went on at HC. Who amoung is so perfect that we always do the right things all the time, say what everyone wants to hear (I'm probably writing some stuff I'll think was dumb later too). I wasn't there for the Friday incident, but it seems to me that if I owned a track I would appreciate someone telling me there was a problem and letting me handle it much more than them taking in upon themselves to "fix" (which cutting a piece of the carpet off is certainly not either) it. I'm sure George has had the entire weekend to feel embarassed about how he acted so I'm not going to kick him while he's already down, but if you had a guest at your house who thought your carpet wasn't nice so they took it upon themselves to swap it out for a hole I should hope you'd be angry too. And god for bid any of us ever dropped 5-10 F bombs in public especially at a race... oh wait... that usually does happen! I am certainly believer in speaking your mind and saying things the way you truely feel them so I don't think swearing is such a terrible thing. Granted in situations such a race or public event it is not appropriate but I've seen people drinking, swearing at their buddies across the room, even punching and horsing around and in most of those cases its shrugged off as "OK" with out a second breathe wasted on it. I know its offensive to some of you too but in this case I agree with others who have commented on the meltdown that under that much pressure, I probably would have done much more than flipped out.

-Its a race... yes, a national one at that, but with the exception of maybe 12-20 people that were in the building, no ones livelyhoods were at stake here. A good amount of the people that were there, are in this as a hobby. Last time I checked hobbies were supposed to be fun. I have rarely in the 19 years I've been in r/c been angry to the point where its ruined my experience. When it has, I've found a different way to enjoy it. I certainly don't think anyone should quit racing by any means, I write this more as a "people, lighten up a little" in hopes that you having more fun, reflects on other people having fun too.

-On Sunday morning, I got a call from someone asking me if spectators were being turned away. I looked around and found myself standing in the middle of about 30 people, most of which were not racing to my knowledge. I was very confused as to what exactly that topic was all about until today when I read all 23 pages of this thread. I know that someone on here had driven quite far to watch and was sent home and I'm VERY sad to hear that this happened. I doubt it was ROAR's , Georges, Georges wife, or anyone elses "master plan" to start a business, invest their lives into it, and go to great financial expense to have this race just so they could be in control of who see's the event and who doesn't. Governments, terrosists and anyone else wouldn't even be bothered with that much work just for something so insignificant. LOL . Like I said I know that some people didn't get let in, but I'm sure it was more because of the confusion, even possibly a misunderstanding. The neighborhood they are in isn't a "bad" one but there it is on a main road in a city that does have it fair share of crime (what city doesn't). If anything I think their true intentions were to prevent any possible inciddents. BEFORE YOU CRUCIFY ME FOR THAT PLEASE READ THE REST OF THIS. I know that we have all been to races where stuff has been stolen, in most cases not even by anyone that was supposed to be there but by complete strangers. I feel that whoever was sent home was done so VERY WRONGLY and I don't blame them for feeling like they do now, but I believe the person that said "no" did with the intentions of protecting the people that were there's property. Unfortunately others have ruined things like this for the majority of us in the past and this is the result, someone that had nothing but the best of intentions suffers for it. Please don't let that be what ruins your experience with r/c.

-By the way, Thank you for reading all of this. It's the first step in the right direction that you do care this much. Last but not least. My input to ROAR on what I feel could be done to help. I've now read 23 pages of posts and few offer any real input one way or the other. I've only been a part of ROAR for two years so I'm open to the idea that my input comes with being a little niave but I'll give it for the effort of trying to something one way or the other. I never knew until recent months what was involved with holding a ROAR race as far as what they provide, supply, or work on. It seems as though it is put entirely on the track owner, a person who had nothing to do with writing or coming up with the rules, who has to now go through the book and "get it all down", who puts fourth all of the money for advertising , planning, and putting on the race. Why? To get their businesses some exposure and boost business. There's nothing wrong with that on their end and the owner should not be to blame for doing the best they can whether it was good enough or not. It doesn't seem that factory guys need to buy parts so it can't be to sell some extra stuff during the race... it's for the exposure. That being said, ROAR is comprised of volunteers. It has been expressed to me that ROAR should not be viewed as being like NASCAR in making, organizing, handleing, and even marketing the races, and as a volunteer group I don't see how they could be expected to. When this all started years ago, it was probably with the thought of coming up with some sort of basis by which all racing could work under. As our sport has grown however, that basis remaind. Now we're to the point where corporate companies are begining to get involved in r/c sponsorships and the sport as a whole needs to grow some more. My input is this: ROAR, if they intend to remain that "basis" by which we all work with, should become a formal governing body like NASCAR is. Our memberships will of course go up as doing all of this requires income to get races put on, etc. I'm not sure but I would imagine DEI and Roush have to pay some sort of fee to be involved in NASCAR and those "fees" should be going to run that governing body and races. By the same rights, an "official governing body" would put up the money to put on the races (maybe in conjunction with the hobby shop), organize and direct these events with their own staff and equipment, and hence offer a level of standards. The events I've seen have been run as best they can with what's available but "what's available" has typically been part of the problems that ensue. By having a consistant level of standards, staff, and equipment I think some (certainly not all) of the problems could be avoided. I admit my idea has its inherant flaws but hope that if I have a good idea that it could be worked on and blossom into something we can all use... Maybe. I'm going to stop going on and on now and just say that for whatever happened this past weekend, let's move on in a direction where we'll all be much happier doing what we chose as a hobby, and CONGRATS to all of you who won this weekend, try not to let this all tarnish the fact that you truely are champions!
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:41 PM   #701
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coincidently... these are my personal views and should not be taken as the views of Driver or anyone other myself. You know I had to put the disclaimer there so people don't go getting upset at others who have nothing to do with my personal thoughts.
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Old 03-21-2005, 06:54 PM   #702
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I got a whole lot to post and even more to type about this race. I just got in from a 12 hour drive stopped last night about 2 1/2 hours out of the track as I wanted to get away from it all. I'm off to return a well used chevy venture to budget over 2100 miles on it in one week!!! and I'll be back sorry about not being able to get the results out. George is suppose to email me the zip file and I'll post hopefully all the heats and mains then......
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:14 PM   #703
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RCDriverER- wow, that was a great post. Please feel free to visit and post in the thread "Take it easy on ROAR, guys". There is a time and a place for forward movement and this is the time. Working together for PROgress is the key.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:23 PM   #704
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Quote:
Originally posted by RCDriverER


-Let's start with "how bout posting results". If you had read any of this thread, you'd see that the "results" have been posted a few times so I don't know what else your looking for. They are unofficial... that's for sure but that's what you have right now. I've heard through the grapevine that there is now a protest of the brushless win so we'll have to see what comes of that (whether its true or not included).


Actuallly, I'd bet a large portion of the people reading this thread care more about how fellow local racers did than how the pro's did. Only top tens or less were reported so far that I am aware of, so only a small portion of the results are available...that's what we are looking for.

Some good thoughts in that long post though.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:24 PM   #705
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I guess there's no time like the present. There are a lot of people (obviously) that are very frustrated and even sick of the way things are. My overall point is let's do something to go in A direction if not the right one. I feel the same way as a lot of people, but I also hate to see peoples livelyhoods and dreams fall apart because of something. I hope that something good comes of all of this.
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