Xray T4 '13

Old 05-28-2013, 01:01 PM
  #3826  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (72)
 
TT_Vert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wauconda, IL.
Posts: 4,077
Trader Rating: 72 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
Yep... Diff will give you a little more steering...
Now if only xray diffs weren't so expensive!!
TT_Vert is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #3827  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
B00t13g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,041
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
Speaking of front diffs. Ive been hearing that a tight diff is better on tight carpet type tracks than a spool. Any opinions on that?

Dave
I disagree, a front diff does work well, but I definitely prefer a spool on carpet. It feels much better to me and lap times are better with a spool for ME.
B00t13g is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:29 PM
  #3828  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (72)
 
TT_Vert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wauconda, IL.
Posts: 4,077
Trader Rating: 72 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by B00t13g View Post
I disagree, a front diff does work well, but I definitely prefer a spool on carpet. It feels much better to me and lap times are better with a spool for ME.
Are you racing on a small carpet track w/ many 180s?

Dave
TT_Vert is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #3829  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,162
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Barry, easy test would be to just try a spool in the front and see if you still have the issue.

I would not say a gear diff is better in any condition. It's different. In super high bite tracks, it can make the car easier to drive, but it won't necessarily mean faster laps. Best thing to do is try them back to back.

I don't think a gear diff gives more steering either. It may give a little more initial turn in, but it tends to wash out as power is applied. Making it act much like a 2WD car under power. In high bite, this makes the car easier and more consistent to drive, however in low to medium grip, it does not allow the car to accelerate fast enough out of the corners. In medium high to high grip is when you will mostly see the benefit of a gear diff.

Also, the spool seems to do better under power in high speed sweeping corners and larger tracks where the gear diff is better for tighter, smaller tracks and under some conditions in large tracks with hairpins.

The common denominator I can say has been grip though. The higher the grip, the better the gear diff works.
CristianTabush is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:34 PM
  #3830  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
B00t13g's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,041
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
Are you racing on a small carpet track w/ many 180s?

Dave
90x40, I wouldn't say a bunch of 180s, arguably the fastest guy at my home track is running a gear diff and does well with it, but it doesn't fit with me.
B00t13g is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:11 PM
  #3831  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (72)
 
TT_Vert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wauconda, IL.
Posts: 4,077
Trader Rating: 72 (100%+)
Default

Thanks for the info guys. Same issue I have. I'm about .1 down of the fast guy at my track and I feel it's in the infield with the tight turns he gets me. My lap times are very good when I have enough front traction to traction roll but then there's that pesky occasional traction roll that negates that .1 second I gain w/ more steering. I'm hoping maybe a gear diff would give me that great turn in w/o the traction roll. This is the layout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylgXpdoSx54
FYI, my track is 32'x61' and very high traction carpet.
Dave
TT_Vert is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 02:23 PM
  #3832  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (44)
 
bvoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bedtime with Teddi
Posts: 3,635
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Barry, easy test would be to just try a spool in the front and see if you still have the issue.

I would not say a gear diff is better in any condition. It's different. In super high bite tracks, it can make the car easier to drive, but it won't necessarily mean faster laps. Best thing to do is try them back to back.

I don't think a gear diff gives more steering either. It may give a little more initial turn in, but it tends to wash out as power is applied. Making it act much like a 2WD car under power. In high bite, this makes the car easier and more consistent to drive, however in low to medium grip, it does not allow the car to accelerate fast enough out of the corners. In medium high to high grip is when you will mostly see the benefit of a gear diff.

Also, the spool seems to do better under power in high speed sweeping corners and larger tracks where the gear diff is better for tighter, smaller tracks and under some conditions in large tracks with hairpins.

The common denominator I can say has been grip though. The higher the grip, the better the gear diff works.
Many thanks... I will be giving my driveway a work out tonight (provided it is not raining)...

Thanks for the explanation... I had a different view / results...
bvoltz is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:13 PM
  #3833  
Tech Master
iTrader: (25)
 
Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas Baby
Posts: 1,730
Trader Rating: 25 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
Thanks for the info guys. Same issue I have. I'm about .1 down of the fast guy at my track and I feel it's in the infield with the tight turns he gets me. My lap times are very good when I have enough front traction to traction roll but then there's that pesky occasional traction roll that negates that .1 second I gain w/ more steering. I'm hoping maybe a gear diff would give me that great turn in w/o the traction roll. This is the layout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylgXpdoSx54
FYI, my track is 32'x61' and very high traction carpet.
Dave
Forget the gear diff, widen your front end to remove traction roll.
Dane is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:26 PM
  #3834  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (72)
 
TT_Vert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Wauconda, IL.
Posts: 4,077
Trader Rating: 72 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Dane View Post
Forget the gear diff, widen your front end to remove traction roll.
I tried to widen it 1.5mm on each side just as a test and it still traction rolled. I run vta and I wonder if the tire itself was the problem. I went ahead and glued the outermost tread block and sidewall and the traction roll went away. Lost of a bit more steering than I would have liked so I probably should have just tried to glue the sidewall to start but I'm working on getting the steering back.

Dave
TT_Vert is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 04:32 PM
  #3835  
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,911
Default

Originally Posted by B00t13g View Post
I disagree, a front diff does work well, but I definitely prefer a spool on carpet. It feels much better to me and lap times are better with a spool for ME.
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
Barry, easy test would be to just try a spool in the front and see if you still have the issue.

I would not say a gear diff is better in any condition. It's different. In super high bite tracks, it can make the car easier to drive, but it won't necessarily mean faster laps. Best thing to do is try them back to back.

I don't think a gear diff gives more steering either. It may give a little more initial turn in, but it tends to wash out as power is applied. Making it act much like a 2WD car under power. In high bite, this makes the car easier and more consistent to drive, however in low to medium grip, it does not allow the car to accelerate fast enough out of the corners. In medium high to high grip is when you will mostly see the benefit of a gear diff.

Also, the spool seems to do better under power in high speed sweeping corners and larger tracks where the gear diff is better for tighter, smaller tracks and under some conditions in large tracks with hairpins.

The common denominator I can say has been grip though. The higher the grip, the better the gear diff works.
Like the others have mentioned.
I've tried a gear diff with 2.5million on carpet and it just felt a bit lazy through the corners.

It felt a little better on a faster asphalt track with a lot of flowing corners, but that was running a 4.5
In stock it just seems to slow me down.
Skiddins is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 08:31 PM
  #3836  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
 
yodace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Caleb
Posts: 2,577
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by aussierevo View Post
Take a look at post #1789 on Page 120 and the few post following on that page of this thread and it provides a good solution to this problem. I had the exact same issue with the rear bar and found it was bend. Followed the steps detailed and problem solved.
I checked my sway bar to see if it was bent its perfectly flat. Measured everything per the manual and It still doesn't move either arm up when I try to movethem Separately .
yodace is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 09:18 PM
  #3837  
Tech Master
iTrader: (41)
 
edhchoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: vancouver, wa, usa
Posts: 1,509
Trader Rating: 41 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by yodace View Post
I checked my sway bar to see if it was bent its perfectly flat. Measured everything per the manual and It still doesn't move either arm up when I try to movethem Separately .
check if the lengths of the bars connecting the sway bar to the arms are even.

Also, the arms have to move up and down freely. The shafts may be too tight or the ball joints could be too tight.
edhchoe is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 11:15 PM
  #3838  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,140
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

What exactly do the shock pistons do? Do they slow down damping by stiffening Or softening, due to more or less holes? Or does it just slow it down since more or less oil is passing through?
What I'm trying to say is, would a shock with 4 hole piston and 350 oil be softer than a 3 hole with 350?
JOE SI is offline  
Old 05-28-2013, 11:51 PM
  #3839  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (2)
 
Kellen Guthrie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Posts: 599
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by JOE SI View Post
What exactly do the shock pistons do? Do they slow down damping by stiffening Or softening, due to more or less holes? Or does it just slow it down since more or less oil is passing through?
What I'm trying to say is, would a shock with 4 hole piston and 350 oil be softer than a 3 hole with 350?
Assuming the holes are the same size yes the 4 hole would have less damping and be "softer". The smaller the hole the faster the shock will "pack up" because if the piston is moving fast and the hole is small the fluid will not be able to get through the hole at a sufficient rate.

The area of all the holes combined will give you how much fluid will be able to pass through the holes in the piston (negating the speed the piston is traveling). So lets say you have one piston that has 6 holes and another piston that has three holes. The area of all the holes combined is the same. They will both have the same damping when the piston moves slow. But when the piston is moving fast the 6 hole will give you more damping than the 3 hole since the holes are smaller.
Kellen Guthrie is offline  
Old 05-29-2013, 07:09 AM
  #3840  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,140
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Kellen Guthrie View Post
Assuming the holes are the same size yes the 4 hole would have less damping and be "softer". The smaller the hole the faster the shock will "pack up" because if the piston is moving fast and the hole is small the fluid will not be able to get through the hole at a sufficient rate.

The area of all the holes combined will give you how much fluid will be able to pass through the holes in the piston (negating the speed the piston is traveling). So lets say you have one piston that has 6 holes and another piston that has three holes. The area of all the holes combined is the same. They will both have the same damping when the piston moves slow. But when the piston is moving fast the 6 hole will give you more damping than the 3 hole since the holes are smaller.
Just making sure since, I feel the T4 has way too much compression with the 4 hole 1.1 set up. The sides and rear of my chassis are taking a beating with the 4hole setup with 2.7 front and 2.5 rear and a ride height of 5.8 rear and 5.4 front
JOE SI is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.