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Old 03-15-2005, 12:13 AM   #1
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Thumbs up BRUSHLESS MOTORS Now Legal At ROAR Races & The IFMAR Worlds!!!

At this year's ROAR Carpet Nationsls (in Connecticut) & at the IFMAR Off-Road Worlds (which will be held at the AF-Models Track in Collegno, Italy)..... BRUSHLESS MOTORS will now be allowed to run with & against Brushed Modified Motors! This was one of the Ammended Race Rules done during the January 2005 meeting of IFMAR and later followed by ROAR. According to guys at LRP, the ROAR Carpet Nationals will be the first major race of their new SPHERE ESC and the REEDY NEO-ONE Brushless Motor. Furthermore, I contacted AF-Models in Italy to confirm that Brushless Motors will be allowed to race with Brushed Motors (and not have their own class) during this year's IFMAR Off-Road Worlds and instantly got an e-mail back from Adriano (one of the Track's representatives) who acknowledged that there will be no separate Brushless Class at the Worlds and instead there would be only one class for Brushless & Brushed in both 2WD & 4wd! The BRUSHLESS Revolution is now definitely well underway!!!




For those interested, here are the specifications of the Brushless Rules from IFMAR:


BRUSHLESS MOTORS:

General definition of a Brushless Motor:

a) Sensored or sensorless motors are allowed.

b) The motor has to be rebuildable. Ball bearings are allowed.

c) If the motor is sensored:

- It must use a six position JST ZH connector model number ZHR-6 or equivalent connector with 6 JST part number SZH-002T-P0.5 26-28 awg contacts or equivalent.

Wire sequence must be as follows:
Pin #1 - Black wire ground potential
Pin #2 - orange wire phase C
Pin #3 - white wire phase B
Pin #4 - green wire phase A
Pin #5 - blue wire temp control, 10 k Thermistor referenced to ground potential
Pin #6 - red wire + 5.0 volts d.c. +/- 10%.
Compatible speed control must use the 6 position JST header part number X-6B-ZR-SMX-TF (where the X denotes the style of the header), or equivalent.

- The power connector has to be clearly marked A, B, C.

A for phase A
B for phase B
C for phase C


d) `05` size specifications

Can:

Overall maximum diameter is 36.02mm measured at whatever point yields the maximum dimension, excluding solder tabs or lead wires. Overall minimum diameter is 34.00mm measured at whatever point yields the minimum dimension, excluding solder tabs or lead wires. Maximum length is 53.00mm measured from the mounting face of the motor to the furthest most point of the end bell, not including solder tabs, lead wires or original manufacturer’s logo or name. Minimum length is 50.00mm measured from the mounting face of the motor to the furthest most point of the end bell, not including solder tabs, lead wires or original manufacturer’s logo or name. Motor mounting holes must be on 1.00- inch (25.40mm) centres.

Stack/Stator:

Stack minimum length 19.30mm, maximum 21.00mm. Stack inside diameter minimum 12.50mm, maximum 16.00mm. If a stack is used then it must be continuous. The laminations have to be one after the other without anything in between. The thickness of the stack plates is 0.35 +/- 0.05mm. All laminations must be of the same material.

Winding:

Only three slot (phase) “Y” wound stators are permitted. No delta wound stators allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper wire permitted. No turn limit.

Rotor:

Shaft diameter must be 0.125 inches (3.175mm). Only one piece, two pole bonded Neodymium or Ferrite magnetic rotors are permitted. Magnet minimum length 23.00mm, maximum 27.00mm. Magnet minimum diameter 12.00mm, maximum 5.50mm.

e) All motors must have the original manufacturer’s logo or name moulded into the end bell.

f) A minimum of two thousand (2000) brushless motors must be available at the time of approval. A minimum of three hundred (300) brushless motors must have been sold to at least three (3) distributors or hobby shops or OEM’s at the time of submittal. The manufacturer has to provide an address of a hobby shop or the like, that any driver who wishes to obtain these motors at the time of the approval can do so. No hybrid (mixing of parts from approved brushless motors) allowed.


4.4.3 Reverse is not allowed -forward control only.


4.4.4 Only fixed single ratio transmissions allowed.



Last edited by STEALTH; 03-15-2005 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:46 AM   #2
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STEALTH,

dude its nice to hear.. coz it minimize the cost and its almst maintanance free!!
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:48 AM   #3
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It's great to see this technology finally validated. But all of the Novak brushless systems (5800 and 4300) are slower than 19T spec (I am totally pro-brushless, but facts are facts). Hopefully the santioning bodies will start to allow the brushless systems to compete in classes other than "mod/open". Any 19T can beat any Novak Brushless.

We (our club) just started a 19T/4300 class and it is very clear that the 4300 is much slower than a 19T.

Since the Novak race in Milwaukee showed the 5800 was about 1 lap down from a 19T and only a bit faster that stock, I would suggest the 5800 should be allowed in 19T and the stock brushless should be allowed in conventional stock.

It's really an issue that the stock brushless runs the same run after run after run (slower than the fastest stock) and you need to do a bunch of work to get a conventional stock brushed motor to run fast. The "old timers" with thier lathes and Turbo 35s will lose thier advantage when brushless is accepted. Writting on stone eventually died, carbs eventually died, typewriters eventually died.

Trinity's bullying doesn't help either. With all the obsolete tooling they have, no wonder the resistance to brushless. I would be shaking in my shoes if I was CEO of Trinity. Duh...how do I wind wires on the outside...duh...I just laugh my ass off at the board of directors of Trinity.

It's been one hell-of-a-battle, but we'll beat Trinity in the end. Trinity will adapt or die.
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Old 03-15-2005, 12:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
At this year's ROAR Carpet Nationsls (in Connecticut) & at the IFMAR Off-Road Worlds (which will be held at the AF-Models Track in Collegno, Italy)..... BRUSHLESS MOTORS will now be allowed to run with & against Brushed Modified Motors!
The only problem with this will be what motors will make the IFMAR list for the worlds, I expect that Novak and REEDY will have their motors in, but what about the rest of the makes ???
At the moment there is no revised IFMAR motor list since last years worlds. I don't know about ROAR, but I am sure they won't be too far off.
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Old 03-15-2005, 05:57 AM   #5
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Cool lets just say.........>>>>>>>>>

Quote:
Originally posted by Carl Giordano
Great race program today by George. Good news and bad news....

The good news:
1.) After seeing all the food flowing from the pit stop cafe today, 450 Raffaelli sandwiches sold during the nationals is easy.
2.) Finaling read the instructions for the KO VFS-1. "No more turtle drive"
3.) VIP Pleasure chest was open.
4.) I'll have a new 1/12th scale for the nats.
5.) Bruce debuts a 1/12th scale with the Novak "brushless" system....lets just say too FAST!!!

Bad News:
1.) My driving sucks
2.) The VIP Pleasure chest is a adult store, not a gentlemen club. (Although I did buy the latest Jenna Jamison DVD, Krystal Method)


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too FAST is putting it mildly...just remember He was running with 1/10 mod guys ... the only thing i see the brushed has over the brushless is the initial spool-up..could have been a gearing issue or profile setting...but top end seemed endless..just my opinion...Lay it down BRUCE
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Old 03-15-2005, 06:34 AM   #6
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I drove his car, trust me, that thing was ballistic all through the powerband
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Old 03-15-2005, 07:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by GordonFreeman
Trinity's bullying doesn't help either. With all the obsolete tooling they have, no wonder the resistance to brushless. I would be shaking in my shoes if I was CEO of Trinity. Duh...how do I wind wires on the outside...duh...I just laugh my ass off at the board of directors of Trinity.

It's been one hell-of-a-battle, but we'll beat Trinity in the end. Trinity will adapt or die.
I second that! But they will survive. Trinity will be finding their motors and slapping their labels on them. That's what they do best ... private label products. If it wasn't for Deiter, they wouldn't have been so successful with they EP motors. Now we just need to wait and see which "original manufacturer’s logo or name" will be on their future brushless systems.

Stealth, thanks for the scoop. I too couldn't wait to see this happen. Once the brushless revolution gets bigger, the future RC cars may even be sightly designed around these systems a little more to even out weight distribution and size. I personally haven't used one so weight may not be an issue, but I've seen them go. I'd rather lay down a few bills for a brushless system then worry about buying brushes that cost more for more runs and coms that need to be cut after every other run.
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Old 03-15-2005, 07:39 AM   #8
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It's about time!!!!!!
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Old 03-15-2005, 07:46 AM   #9
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I belive these rules outlaw all the current "fast" brushless systems. I didn't know there was brushless motor that dosen't use rare earth mags....
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Old 03-15-2005, 07:49 AM   #10
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We got a battery war ...

Coming soon,


motor war`s....


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Old 03-15-2005, 08:02 AM   #11
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Default 5800 v 19T

Guys

A 5800 will smoke a 19T IMHO. I've got and played with both power plants and there's just no comparison.

What matters is the impact on the after market companies selling brushes, tooling and services for brushed motors.

What does the dyno say?
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:00 AM   #12
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Just wait for the LRP Sphere / Reedy Neo-One combo which will be used by Jon Orr and Sean Cochran at the carpet nationals...
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:20 AM   #13
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You guys just dont get it! The gap between factory and non factory just got bigger. Even though its easier to maintain or service, the chances of ever competing against a factory guy went from a slight chance to none. I understand a few of you like these motors because you do this for fun. But if you decide to get serious and or race for the competition do you honestly think the off the shelf system is going to be the same the team guys will have. Their programing will be different and they will have internals that you wont be able to buy.
There is cheating going on right now that no one can detect because current races have no "real trained" techs to catch this stuff. You think you have problems now running against factory guys or any one with an inside hook up! Guess what you just wished for your own demise.

Boy nitro is sure going to grow real fast! Nostrodaomus said so!
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by burito
Just wait for the LRP Sphere / Reedy Neo-One combo which will be used by Jon Orr and Sean Cochran at the carpet nationals...
Isn't the race this week? What about ROAR approval?
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Old 03-15-2005, 09:38 AM   #15
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Some of you need to get it into your head that this is a HOBBY!!! This is a profession for very few, just like taking nudie pictures of your GF or Wife isn't going to get you a job at Playboy!!!!! The initial outlay may be a few dollars more but you're spending less in the long run.... Every form of racing is the same.... You can't compete with factory sponsored drivers... You think you can go out without factory backing and place in the top 10 at Daytona??? You'd be lucky to qualify....

I say it's about time this HOBBY is catching up!!!!

Let the factory guys race themselves and promote the company they work for and the rest of us will be having a blast and spending less money!!!!
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