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Old 03-15-2005, 01:06 PM   #31
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yay brushless 4 ever!
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Old 03-15-2005, 02:40 PM   #32
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I can't see how anyone will be running brushless at nats this week.....

Neither the Reedy/LRP nor the Novak are approved for Roar racing at this time.....and even if they had past the techincal requirements, neither the new Novak Super mod, nor the Reedy are commercially available, which is REQUIRED under the rules...

So......while someone may be dumb enough to strap one in a car, I am sure someone is smart enough to protest....which in this case, would be a shut and closed arguement......unless of course the person making the ruling from the same school of thinking as the person running one....

And how would the stock one get to run?? It's a handout race......not to mention, the stock brushless has bearings (yeah, thats fair!)

And to ANYONE who thinks teching these things will be as easy as plugging in a computer.....yer nuts.

Think about it, companies like microsoft, EA Games, etc spend MILLIONS of dollars in preventing their software from being hacked.....and it happens EVERY day by some 17 year old kid in his bedroom......if you don't think someone will end up cracking the software and making it undetectable.....yer nuts.

Just ask microsoft....they came up with some media format years back, with heavy encryption that was supposed to NOT be crackable and if it was, it would NOT play.....but before it was even released to the public, someone made a crack called f*&#you.exe that killed protection....

Do you REALLY think Bob Novak is gonna spend that kinda of money on a little toy car ESC?? The geek on the other end has to spend pretty much nothing but his own time.....

And for the record, I have brushless system in the works....its a good technology, but has a LOT of misconceptions about it......

I do like the no battery wars comment.....thats funny....don't you find it odd that right after the Novak brushless comes out, Novak is now suddenly selling batteries?? Call it what you want...you don't have to be the head burger flipper at mcdonalds to figure it out...



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Old 03-15-2005, 02:50 PM   #33
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Preach on Brother Eddie!!!!!
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Old 03-15-2005, 02:53 PM   #34
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Eddie,
are their more misconseptions about the brushless?
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:02 PM   #35
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Well, I will retract my statement about the approval requirement......

It seems, that ROAR has decided to allow ANY brushless motor, regardless of it being approved or not, run as long as it meets all the specs......how the tech guys are supposed to decipher it all is beyond me......how it provides any type of fair competition, is beyond me also, as it COMPLETELY defeats the commercially available run, though.....thats SUPPOSED to be part of the requirements......


So does the brushes motor companies get the same deviation? I think Trinity would like to run their new aluminum endbell motor there....it meets all the requirements, except being commerically available.....

This whole thing stinks and stinks bad.....


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Old 03-15-2005, 03:13 PM   #36
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Way to fail again ROAR. The only reason why the racers and manufactures put up with ROAR is because the control the US entries to the IFMAR Worlds. If another sanctioning body was awarded this bloc, ROAR would cease to exist.
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:16 PM   #37
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Just imagine all the stuck pigs squealing when people don't have to go to the tuners to get their "stock" motors...LOL
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:16 PM   #38
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Whats with all the "commercially available" argument all of a sudden?

If I remember correctly, many sponsored drivers were using "prototype" esc last year at ROAR events. No body complained about that.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the idea that all equipment must be commercially available first inorder to be used at national level events, but that rule has never been followed before...
(look at all the "prototype" cars, and ESC being used currently)

So why all the fuss now regarding brushless?
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
And to ANYONE who thinks teching these things will be as easy as plugging in a computer.....yer nuts.
I can plug 2 of my motorcycles into my laptop and read timing, feul curve and other various settings throughout the entire RPM range.... Think it isn't that easy??? It is....

I'm sorry it's going to hurt the little motor tuners out there but it will help the rest of the hobby....
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Old 03-15-2005, 03:38 PM   #40
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By teching he means checking to make that the software is running under approved parameters, not tuning the system.
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Smash
By teching he means checking to make that the software is running under approved parameters, not tuning the system.
Do you think "software" is going to magically make a motor faster??? You can easily go in and check the parameters via computer.... BTW... I want this magic software to make my computer think it's a 1000ghz!!!
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:01 PM   #42
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Besides...what's the difference between doing custom programming in your VFS, GTX or whatever...and doing it with a brushless ESC?

The biggest difference is that the brushless guy will have more time to get it right because he won't have spend all that time putting perfume on that pig.
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:08 PM   #43
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You'd be amazed at what the speedo profile can do to improve the performance of a brushless....
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:15 PM   #44
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Bonus!

So you get to make your car faster by just pushing buttons? Imagine that. It would be faster, more reliable and (probably) cheaper, with less maintenance.

Sounds like a great deal to me.
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Old 03-15-2005, 04:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by 403forbidden
Whats with all the "commercially available" argument all of a sudden?

If I remember correctly, many sponsored drivers were using "prototype" esc last year at ROAR events. No body complained about that.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the idea that all equipment must be commercially available first inorder to be used at national level events, but that rule has never been followed before...
(look at all the "prototype" cars, and ESC being used currently)

So why all the fuss now regarding brushless?
ESCs are not required (and never have been) to be submitted for approval. Motors and batteries have always been.

The fuss is that for 20+ years, electric motor manufacturers have been required to submit motors to an independent lab which tests the motors to be sure they conform to the specifications set forth by ROAR.

Once it has been verified that the motor meets ROAR's specs, the manufacturer/importer must then submit documentation that a specified number of units are available for sale to the general public (for the customer's/racer's protection).

Finally, the motor will be listed in Rev-Up or ROAR's wesite so that the consumer is aware it has been legalized. it is at this point the motor is considered ROAR legal and allowed in competition.

The problem is that ROAR is allowing brushless motors to be used without going through the same legalization process as brushed motors. If they racn inseparate classes it would not be an issue. But if they race together, they should go through the same process as other motors used in he same class.

This alone is all very unfair to manufacturers or racers. In addition to the preferential approval process, brushless motors are allowed to be equipped with rare earth magnets that are not allowed in brushed motors. Additionally, there is no price limit established for brushless motors as there is for brushed motors.

If brushed and brushless are going to compete together, they should be required to follow the same basic rules that have always governed electric motor legality.
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