R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-21-2005, 08:23 PM   #286
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

There are no restrictions on cars in modified classes other than the standard specs.....stock cars have a commerically available rule, its like 12.1.3 or something....

The 19t issue is completely different from the brushless......its NOT even close in terms of how it was handled under the rules...

I, nor ANY of the 3 companies who actually make a 19t motor had ANY issues with the 19t rules as roar presented....they posted rules and they were followed. The motors used were ALL commercially available...

I as a motor sponsor, could easily equip any of my drivers with any 19t motor that would show up....

The result of the 19t issue was one brought on by the track owner deciding not to make it a hand out motor class like other events do.....Paved nats in portland, ran by a little volunteer club used a handout and had no problems......and there was NO issues at this years carpet nats with 19t motors....

Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 08:29 PM   #287
Tech Elite
 
Boomer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Southern Cal - Claremont
Posts: 3,346
Send a message via ICQ to Boomer Send a message via AIM to Boomer
Default

So, if you're one of the three companies who make a 19T motor, and you didn't have any problems with the rules as presented. . . why haven't you submitted one to ROAR during the last year or so wherein the rules had been posted (in 2004 book. . .)
__________________
-
RC10L2.5W - RC12.4 - RCNTC3(bmi) - TC4 (modded) - B44.2 - plus rent-a-rides! :D
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 08:37 PM   #288
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

I am not one of the companies....

And as I understand from the other 3....

1. Trinity, no clue really.....I was led to believe they were kinda worried about the rules getting changed after going through the process, so they decided to wait, not to mention 19t wasn't a class really being ran at many national events....I know they did change their motor to meet the rules (extended shaft and crosswrapped)

2. Orion was coming out with a new 19t, so from what I understood, they decided not to get the old motor approved....

3. Reedy, well.....they built their motor under what they were led to believe would be the final rules....once the rules were published it failed in a few areas, namely it had quad mags, no extended shaft, and hemi wound.....now the rules were changed to say quad magnets were allowed, but the other two remained in place. I talked to Gary from AE and he simply stated they had no intentions of going after approval since the rules were a mess.....

Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 08:51 PM   #289
TCR
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: California
Posts: 552
Default

Boomer your saying get rid of all organizations then, Look I know there both nothing to be proud of, but could they possibly get anyworse.

A national title means nothing anymore, winning the snowbirds or the cactus is a bigger accomplishment.

Boomer you should start your own organization, If it's fun and fair I'll sign up.

I'm not saying norrca was the answer, just an alternative.

So offer us some alternatives
TCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 09:11 PM   #290
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,158
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
Y'all were happy about it a while ago - and it's not something isolated. ROAR is following IFMAR's lead, as is EFRA. . .



Not really - look at their structure. NO committees, they have 6 people that run Norrca and one person who has final say.

Rules weren't made by members, they were made by:

Don Risner
Jimmy Babcock
Larry Mccaa
Dewayne Perry
Eric Anderson
Brian Mccal

That's a council of 6 people - hardly a rules committee that takes input from a lot of people.

On the other hand, ROAR has separate committees for nearly every type of racing - Fuel On-Road and Off-Road, Electric Oval, On-Road, Offroad, etc.

You want to go Norrca? Cool - been there and done that. Look at their rules - Spektrum radios aren't allowed for (no changeable frequency/channel. . .); no repeat concours winners? I've seen THAT one go by the wayside, personally (little hole supposed to be punched. . .not). 1,2,3 cars held in Tech after A-Main? Didn't happen in 2002. . .

But you think that they're better - cool. Give Don my regards. Make sure to take your ROAR card, you'll get a discount.
Actually Boomer Norrca does listen to what the drivers want. We are in the middle of making some big changes and I think member vote will be the biggest one....That way everyone knows what the members wanted!!

Also the spektrum is allowed and has been legal since Jan 1. Theres just not a rule book out yet. There is a new website being worked on as well.

So please ask before you speak on behalf of Norrca.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Team EAM | Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | APEX Raceway and Hobbies | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2005, 10:29 PM   #291
Tech Elite
 
Boomer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Southern Cal - Claremont
Posts: 3,346
Send a message via ICQ to Boomer Send a message via AIM to Boomer
Default

I wasn't speaking "on behalf" - I was reading the published rules - what else am I supposed to do?

But, yeah, you can have one standard for ROAR and another for Norrca - we have to read the published ROAR rules and stick to them but for Norrca we don't go by the published rules (from http://www.norrca.com/rules.html) but rather the as yet unpublished book that will be written by the 6 members of the rules committee. Not from feedback gained from 5 or 6 rules committees made up of racers. . .

"Theres just not a rule book out yet." So, when do we get to see it? Can I say the same things to you that were said to ROAR when the 05 rulebook was a month late?

===================

TCR - I'm not saying get rid of all organizations. Never did, never will. I'm also not stupid enough to try and start my own - I don't have the resources, time or patience to deal with it. I did run my own point series in Southern Cal for a short time and had fun (as did the participants - or so they said. . . ), but have no plans to try again.

All I'm saying is that we need to stop complaining and look at the root of the problem.

ROAR is following the lead of IFMAR and is actually fulfilling the desires of racers. They've tried to get BL classes going - I've seen people try it at SoCal and it just isn't gonna happen anytime soon.

So they announce that they'll follow IFMAR's lead and allow it in Open Mod class (probably the CLOSEST, MOST appropriate place although not TRULY appropriate. . .) and people rejoice:

Quote:
Originally posted by rice
STEALTH,

dude its nice to hear.. coz it minimize the cost and its almst maintanance free!!
Quote:
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
It's about time!!!!!!
And it's something that people have been complaining to ROAR about for a LONG time. Yet when Novak pretty much GIVES the systems away for use at the 04 On-road Nats, they can't hardly bribe people to run them. . .

So what do people want? BL? in its own class? Sure - get enough people to RUN it. Hasn't happened yet and it's not going to for a while. Building a class takes persistence - I know, I helped build a class at SoCal (only helped, MarkA and Richard did the building. . .)

So, how to baby it along until it can take off? It IS the future of RC. . .no question - but how far OFF in the future? Somehow we have to give it a kickstart. Putting it in open mod is probably the best place for it until enough people buy the danged things and it matures enough so that it will get to its own critical mass.

Until then. . .go bang down the doors of LRP and Novak for KNOWINGLY pushing the rules and the poor DRO who was there.

Boy, THAT must be a wonderful job. . .let's see, we won't pay you, we'll fly you there and back and reimburse you for food and lodging, but remember you're a volunteer.

Now, you have to put up with all the CRAP, by yourself, that goes on. You're going to take ALL the blame. . .oh yeah, and YOU don't get paid for it. . .'cause you're a volunteer.

Oh yeah, sign me UP dude!
__________________
-
RC10L2.5W - RC12.4 - RCNTC3(bmi) - TC4 (modded) - B44.2 - plus rent-a-rides! :D
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 06:27 AM   #292
Tech Elite
 
vtl1180ny's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrong Island
Posts: 4,963
Default

What is the answer to this? Rip apart the current sanctioning bodies and start over?

Since this is a hobby, run by volunteers... Maybe rule changes should be voted on by the members....

BTW... Still haven't seen the results, how'd the brushless do in mod?
__________________
I still lurk....
vtl1180ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 09:18 AM   #293
Tech Elite
 
Boomer's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Southern Cal - Claremont
Posts: 3,346
Send a message via ICQ to Boomer Send a message via AIM to Boomer
Default

Heh, all you have to do is to see the furor - a prototype BL system won.

If we had members vote on rule changes, we'd never get anything done - first because if we actually got all 6000 members to vote, it would end up locking us up while we wait for votes, voting procedures, etc and then everything would be up for a vote - why have rules committees, why have an ExComm, why have a President. . .second because we have racers on rules committees already who give input and, generally, that input is passed into rule - this gives people who actually will be constructive the chance to participate in the process. It's easy to become a member and then try to wreak havok (ie. Max Brushware. . .)
__________________
-
RC10L2.5W - RC12.4 - RCNTC3(bmi) - TC4 (modded) - B44.2 - plus rent-a-rides! :D
Boomer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 09:54 AM   #294
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 140
Default

The only thing I'd like out of ROAR is to make the rules as clear as possible and enfoce the rules they have.

Near as I can tell they allowed a rule to be broken or waved when they allowed the Reedy Neo One motor to compete at this most recent national event. This is the kind of thing that really bugs me about ROAR.

I agree that having all ROAR members vote on rules changes would be a bad thing, cause things would take forever and the costs to do this would be great.

Now, what do members do when ROAR does something like allowing a rule to be waved or broken? They complain... and well maybe that helps, but there certianly is no guanuntee it will help... You can also vote for somone else the next time you get a chance, and replace the people responsible for waving the rules... Or, I supose you could also take them to court... but most of us have little or nothing that we could claim as damages, and therefor would likely NEVER attempt to take ROAR to court for a rules violation... There must also be some way to appeal a decsision, and it would seem possible to have the results of the race changed, etc...

But anyway... it all depends on what you as a member want to do... but you do have choices you can make if you don't like what ROAR does... Some of these may not satisfiy you or I, but then we rarely are completely satisfied with life anyway...

Meanwhile, I really think it stinks that ROAR allowed a non-production motor to race when the rules clearly prohibit this.
DynoMoHum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 10:18 AM   #295
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

I got an idea....

Quit the TALKING about putting the stuff online.....and do it.

Take the money saved from all the mailings...

Increase membership $10 or so.....

And PAY people to do the job.....

And if they don't do their job then, what's the excuse?

I don't care if takes money.....I am willing to pay, and I will bet you would be suprised to see how many other racers would be fine with it also....


And I will GLADLY volunteer to redo the bylaws and help with the rules.....Dawn emailed me about a rules committee, but then I never heard back from her....

I actually intended to run for President, but of course my revup with the signup came 2 weeks after the deadline....

And then, there was a post over on the Trinity boards that said no write ins.....but then the ballot had a write in on it....go figure.

Consider this my notice of intent to run for an office next election....


Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 10:20 AM   #296
Tech Elite
 
Jack Smash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 2,897
Trader Rating: 29 (100%+)
Default

You got my vote Eddie! If my job situation ever settles down I may consider volunteering as well.
__________________
Kyosho / Orion / Amain.com / Protek / MIP /
Jack Smash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 10:21 AM   #297
Tech Champion
 
dgullickson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: I'm a Dork Fish
Posts: 7,662
Trader Rating: 45 (96%+)
Send a message via AIM to dgullickson Send a message via Yahoo to dgullickson
Default

Make that 2. We need someone that can read between the lines.

EddieO buy a forum on here for for your voting.
dgullickson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 10:39 AM   #298
Tech Champion
 
Jon Kerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 9,658
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Eddie for pres!!!
Jon Kerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 11:07 AM   #299
Tech Regular
 
Todd Putnam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 392
Default Question for ROAR

If ROAR is now allowing brushless to compete with brushed motors, I assume that the brushed motors will now be allowed to use Rare Earth Magnets, (Neodynium, Cobalt, etc.) just like the brushless. Are my assumptions correct?
Please advise.

Regards,
Todd Putnam
Putnam Propulsion
www.putnampropulsion.com
Todd Putnam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2005, 11:55 AM   #300
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 140
Default

Todd...

Big Jim has sent a letter to ROAR questioning the logic of permiting brushless motors which use Neodymium-Iron-Boron magnets and other things not permited for use in brushed motors, etc... He has received emails in return from Rick Wilson (ROAR Pres) and also from Mike Queller (vice prez) that were pretty much favorable and/or in agreement with his suggestions/comments that brushed motors should be allowed to have many restrictions removed from them...

Go see RCcars.com's big jim forum for more details, it's mostly in the "BIG JIM'S COMMENTARY and your rebuttles." section...

Big Jim feels that brushed motors could compete farily well with brushless if they were allowed to use some newer technologys and/or components...

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that Brushless is getting a advantage over brushed Mod motors under the current rules and/or implmentation of the rules..
DynoMoHum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What brushless motors are Roar legal? DriftDreamer06 Electric On-Road 3 05-18-2007 04:57 PM
Are the LRP Neo Brushless motors ROAR legal? CarlosG. Electric On-Road 5 09-02-2006 01:01 AM
Roar Legal Motors Ophidian Onroad Nitro Engine Zone 2 12-10-2005 09:01 PM
BRUSHLESS MOTORS Now Legal At ROAR Races & The IFMAR Worlds!!! STEALTH Electric Off-Road 3 03-17-2005 10:16 PM
Brushless Motors and ROAR / IFMAR??? black-knight Electric On-Road 20 12-17-2003 05:15 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:57 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net