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Old 03-18-2005, 09:46 AM   #241
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Hohwart
Better yet, they should follow their own rules regarding product approval.
Well, there may be some litigation starting on monday....
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:47 AM   #242
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Hohwart
Better yet, they should follow their own rules regarding product approval.
If they were to include non approved Brushed motors as part of this deviation would you be satisfied? That would eliminate the whole product approval issue for the moment.

Not debating, just trying to figure out exactly what you THINK should have or could be done. Is the basis of your rant on product approval or unequal rules concerning legal components in brushed vs brushless ( magnets etc)?
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:51 AM   #243
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Originally posted by Jon Kerr
I'll never believe that one.
I could have taken it a step farther and said Nitro Monster Trucks.
They've introduced tons of people and tons of money to our industry.

I couldn't bring myself to go that far though... my love is electric TC. lol
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:54 AM   #244
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Many of the guys I've seen that start with a nitro MT end up running TC's and many of them go to electric. Whole other topic though.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:58 AM   #245
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Originally posted by Jon Kerr
Many of the guys I've seen that start with a nitro MT end up running TC's and many of them go to electric. Whole other topic though.
My point exactly!
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:02 AM   #246
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Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
If they were to include non approved Brushed motors as part of this deviation would you be satisfied? That would eliminate the whole product approval issue for the moment.

Not debating, just trying to figure out exactly what you THINK should have or could be done. Is the basis of your rant on product approval or unequal rules concerning legal components in brushed vs brushless ( magnets etc)?
Just giving my opinion on this. Brushed motor companies have been trying to lift some of the rules on motors for years. Had they lifted those to allow things that the brushless dosen't have to abide by, in time for the brushed motor companies to develop new motors using those technologies, then I don't think there'd be anyone upset.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:30 AM   #247
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What should of been done.....

ROAR should of required the motors to be approved and meet the commercially available clause.......with some official announcement on the website and/or revup...

And whoever said a 5800 will blow away a good 19t.....go look at the times from the novak race...they were slower. Or better yet, go look at the times from paved nats.....they were barely faster than a stock motor outdoors......not to mention have of them kept shutting down....

We ran a 19t for 7 minutes and it had no problems keeping the same pace it was at 5 minutes...

The new system is fast....7-8 turn fast....

And what is this crap about getting no help from the motor guys? Anybody who was at nats in portland (403forbidden, not sure who you are, but feel free to ask you local racers who were there) knows that I was tuning anyones motor who asked.....crap, in most cases I was giving them free brushes....

And at ANY big race, if you were to walk up to Oscar or Joe with a V2 and ask for help.....you would get it, I guarantee it. I have seen them BOTH do it......Chad from Trinity is the same way.

And while some of you may think that tuning a motor is a pain.....some of us enjoy it. Just like all other forms of racing, working on your car is part of the game....finding that extra edge is what gives a lot of people enjoyment in this hobby...

I personally don't like chassis tuning...never been good at it. I demand we use a chassis that no tuning can be done.....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:38 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl

If you cant figure out or like working on motors do you also honestly think you will master suspension tuning. Because that will be a bigger issue now as well as figuring in other variables in getting the car to work.
One has nothing to do with the other.

I can tune on my setup ALL DAY for the cost of a couple suspension blocks, ($9 each), a turnbuckle wrench ($5), a spring set ($10) and some shock oil ($3). Aside from the shock oil, none are consumables. I can get close to right with the kit setup (free) and tweak with it from there.

I know what I have to do with brushed motors, but for me it's a "bridge too far" in terms of money and time...this is a part-time HOBBY for me, not a career move.

Besides, a setup that isn't perfect won't stop you from having fun racing. A bad, worn, defective or wrong/stuck/burned/etc. brushes in a brushed motor will stop your good time immediately.

I think I'll be a better driver with more time driving and a fresh set of tires every couple weeks. Brushless lets me do that.

Nobody is telling the rest of youy you can't keep tweaking on the old stuff...hell...maybe it's even faster...probably is...who cares? I'll take my chances and place my bet on practice and tires. The guys who have the time to build a faster brushed motor, get the practice and buy the tires DESERVE the win...good for them.

As for the "ESC of the week" deal...for the 99.8765499% of us people who just mess around at a local track...that's total nonsense.

The rest of you can do what you need to do.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:52 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally posted by EddieO
.And whoever said a 5800 will blow away a good 19t.....go look at the times from the novak race...they were slower. Or better yet, go look at the times from paved nats.....they were barely faster than a stock motor outdoors......not to mention have of them kept shutting down....
That would be me...

Well...here in the real world, I got to watch a race at SoCal a couple weeks ago where a 5800 laid waste to the 19T class...so bad in fact that people started protesting my 5-cell 4300 deal I've been running in Intermediate stock...I think because they thought I had the same motor and I must have been sandbagging.

The 5800 was intentionally geared high (numerically) so it wouldn't have as much top-end speed...and he killed those guys...and in case you haven't heard of it, SoCal is a fairly competitive place.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:05 AM   #250
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Comparing the 5800 to a 19 turn will depend on the class and what 19 turn you compare it with.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:19 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
Comparing the 5800 to a 19 turn will depend on the class and what 19 turn you compare it with.
Well...I was referring to the 19T class.

While I'm sure that EddieO can build a mean 19T motor, so can some other people. The people at SoCal are no slouches and they generally have the best stuff you can get. It's like a "mini" nationals there every saturday.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:19 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
One has nothing to do with the other.

I can tune on my setup ALL DAY for the cost of a couple suspension blocks, ($9 each), a turnbuckle wrench ($5), a spring set ($10) and some shock oil ($3). Aside from the shock oil, none are consumables. I can get close to right with the kit setup (free) and tweak with it from there.

I know what I have to do with brushed motors, but for me it's a "bridge too far" in terms of money and time...this is a part-time HOBBY for me, not a career move.

Besides, a setup that isn't perfect won't stop you from having fun racing. A bad, worn, defective or wrong/stuck/burned/etc. brushes in a brushed motor will stop your good time immediately.

I think I'll be a better driver with more time driving and a fresh set of tires every couple weeks. Brushless lets me do that.

Nobody is telling the rest of youy you can't keep tweaking on the old stuff...hell...maybe it's even faster...probably is...who cares? I'll take my chances and place my bet on practice and tires. The guys who have the time to build a faster brushed motor, get the practice and buy the tires DESERVE the win...good for them.

As for the "ESC of the week" deal...for the 99.8765499% of us people who just mess around at a local track...that's total nonsense.

The rest of you can do what you need to do.
Turbo Joe!
so if your into this hobby for fun and now you get to play with the motors at the track why are you on here selling us and defending the idea of brushless. Why are you also having a debate on why its so great and that tuning and practicing is more important to you if all you want to do is have fun, when the intial comments by Eddie O and rick Howart are in reference to the legitamcy of the ruling roar has taken.

What I am noticing here is a bunch of guys making noise with no sound.
Yea it doesnt make sense! Because you guys arent having a discussion. Your having a biased overview thats narrow minded.

Notice no one said no to the motor's. Just the way the rules were tweaked.

As far as the other issues such as programing and system of the weak.
Open you thoughts and think of the negative factor this might or will have.
You need to have an open mind to both sides. Everything has a plus and a downside.

So what do you want for rick and eddie, me and who to agree with you on all points because only you guys are right!

If youd feel better your right.!




Disclosure: I can see the threads in a few months! Whats up with the system of the week!
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:34 AM   #253
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I have no problems with their comments about ROAR's procedures...but sme of the comments about how going to brushless motors will make things more expensive or tedious are...well...silly.

I'm not sure where you get that I like to tune on brushed motors. The only brushed motors I have or run are Mabuchis. If it comes to the point where I have to run one of those things, I'll just start racing my TNX instead.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:46 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by JKA
If they were to include non approved Brushed motors as part of this deviation would you be satisfied? That would eliminate the whole product approval issue for the moment.

Not debating, just trying to figure out exactly what you THINK should have or could be done. Is the basis of your rant on product approval or unequal rules concerning legal components in brushed vs brushless ( magnets etc)?
What should have been done, EXACTLY, is this. When the manufacturers ask if they could use their motors at this race, ROAR should have asked them to submit them for approval. And when approved they would be legal.

They should follow with - "this is the process that all the other manufacturer's motors have gone through. We have never made an exception and can't do so now."

The component specification differences from brushed to brushless are a separate issue.
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Old 03-18-2005, 11:53 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turbo Joe
I have no problems with their comments about ROAR's procedures...but sme of the comments about how going to brushless motors will make things more expensive or tedious are...well...silly.

I'm not sure where you get that I like to tune on brushed motors. The only brushed motors I have or run are Mabuchis. If it comes to the point where I have to run one of those things, I'll just start racing my TNX instead.
who said anything about brushed motors?
I talking about your point about setting up the car and tunning it! I wasnt talking about the motors.

Joe just keep an eye on the pricing and the constant introduction of new brushless systems. The rising cost will be all other stuff. Just keep track of the costs! Then 1 year later lets have this discussion again. Right now were going in circles with no end!
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