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Old 03-18-2005, 02:14 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally posted by EddieO
That's such a wonderful attitude toward a fellow hard working racer......yeah, I know....he can just buy a brushless....but last I checked, thats $200+ just for a unit that is as fast as a 19t....a decent amount of cash for a lot of people....
I guess if you keep repeating it often enough, people will eventually believe it.

A 5800 and a 19T (I bet even one of YOUR 19T ) is not even a close race...unless you have a complete "tool" running the 5800.

As for feeling sorry for all the guys with comm lathes......time for them to grow some and make the switch.

The smart ones can offset most or all of the price of their new system by selling off their horseshoe...errr...brushed equipment. The rest will probably be racing their brushed stuff forever anyways.

Besides...why can't you dyno a brushless??? You mean to tell me that you haven't done that?

I sure don't wanna buy one of yours then.

j/k...
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Old 03-18-2005, 02:29 AM   #227
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LOL

I am sure the regular Joe Blow racer would much rather buy a brushless system instead of hiring a personal motor guru tuner that many of the sponsored drivers have FREE access to.

Furthermore, BL systems will bring more drivers to the hobby...these new drivers do not have all those silly contraptions needed to maintain brushed motors.
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Old 03-18-2005, 02:41 AM   #228
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As a representative of the "Joe Blow" racers without all the silly contraptions needed to maintain brushed motors...may I say that I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Joe "Blow" Morgan
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Old 03-18-2005, 04:59 AM   #229
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I know the thread is supposed to be about ROAR cheating it's own rules. But us brushless guys have been so oppressed and shuned for so long, it just hard not to dig a little bit EddieO. We just can't figure out why one would want to tear motors apart every run, stick new brushes in ($3). turn comms, polish bushings, align brush hoods, worry about the latest greatest spring, ect....Like I said before Brushless is basically a solid state power plant. Simply. It may have some teething problems but it's pretty clear to alot of people which system is going to increase the enjoyment of this hobby.
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Old 03-18-2005, 06:02 AM   #230
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gordon, I can only speak for myself, but I've never shunned a brushless guy. I'm excited about the technology and have no problem with it being allowed as long as the ROAR rules are equal for brushed motors which they at this point are not.

I will be one of the first to buy a brushless system once I find one that will compete in mod touring car and mod buggy, but in the short term I think people are naive if they think brushless will be cheaper. With brushless legal it will be an all out technology war for a while and advancements will be fast and many which means I will be upgrading often until the technology maxes out and slows down within a couple of years.

It's kind of like in the early 80's when I bought my first electronic speedo, newer and much better ones were hitting the market every 6 months and you could feel a significant difference, compared to now where a cyclone of 4 years ago can easily still compete with a gtx.

I look forward to learning more about brushless, but hope ROAR decides to follow it's own rules.

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Old 03-18-2005, 08:24 AM   #231
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It is amazing how short sighted some people can be.

Brushless will be the only thing in time, but if you think you will only need one motor and ESC to be competitive, think again.

Manufacturer's and hobby shops lost profits in motor parts like brushes and springs will gained somewhere else. Your hobby is not going to be cheaper, you will just be paying for your motor savings somewhere else. That is a simple FACT.

And with no price limits on brushless, who knows how much one will have to pay for a system when the technology is continually improving.

My short term prediction is that on a local level, BRUSHLESS racers will ask for their own class so they don't have to race against faster BRUSHED motors.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:49 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Hohwart
And with no price limits on brushless, who knows how much one will have to pay for a system when the technology is continually improving.
With price limits the speed with which technology improves slows to a crawl.

IMHO there needs to be a separation of pro level racers and sportman level racers. With that separation comes differing rules.
For the pros.... no price limits. Its silly and slows progress.
For the sportsmen... incorporate price limits, product approvals, etc to level the playing field for the driver.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:50 AM   #233
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he hee haa ha. Keep thinking that brushless will be the savior of r/c racing.!

Racer oz you just hit the nail on the head with the it wont be cheaper. I bet there will be a new system introduced every month.

Look to all you guys that are happy and thrilled for brushless. Your beliefs and opinions are fine. But bashing and making a here in your face attitued is just the positive behavior you need to get respect and acceptance.

Oldschoolers as a whole are the guys that you guys have a problem with because with time we figured out that black magic stuff you guys call motor tunning. You sit and say how we dont adapt. Anyone in this hobby since the day wiper speedos were the norm has adopted to technology many more times then anyone whos entered this hobby in the past 4 or 5 years. You got your brushless motors okayed for racing, but your still going to get smoked by the old guys that will persiveer and learn this stuff. Do you think we would be in this hobby for this long if we didnt overcome the fear of new technology!
If you cant figure out or like working on motors do you also honestly think you will master suspension tuning. Because that will be a bigger issue now as well as figuring in other variables in getting the car to work.
Eliminating one issue will only increase the importance of another which alot more people have a problem with.

Before you bash me like others my background in the automotive world takes me from the days of carbs and seting points thru electronic carbs upto fuel injection and fiber optics in high end cars. So I am not afraid of the change, I have probly seen more then most of you and had to fix it.

Brushless will be good. But with time and on a bases that its an option on a level playing field. I know I will get a system sooner of later.

Just stop saying screw the brushed guys. Because none of them have said screw you.
You want acceptance you need to go about it in a different mannor!

$5.00 Worth.

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Old 03-18-2005, 09:02 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
he hee haa ha. Keep thinking that brushless will be the savior of r/c racing.!

Racer oz you just hit the nail on the head with the it wont be cheaper. I bet there will be a new system introduced every month.

Look to all you guys that are happy and thrilled for brushless. Your beliefs and opinions are fine. But bashing and making a here in your face attitued is just the positive behavior you need to get respect and acceptance.

Oldschoolers as a whole are the guys that you guys have a problem with because with time we figured out that black magic stuff you guys call motor tunning. You sit and say how we dont adapt. Anyone in this hobby since the day wiper speedos were the norm has adopted to technology many more times then anyone whos entered this hobby in the past 4 or 5 years. You got your brushless motors okayed for racing, but your still going to get smoked by the old guys that will persiveer and learn this stuff. Do you think we would be in this hobby for this long if we didnt overcome the fear of new technology!
If you cant figure out or like working on motors do you also honestly think you will master suspension tuning. Because that will be a bigger issue now as well as figuring in other variables in getting the car to work.
Eliminating one issue will only increase the importance of another which alot more people have a problem with.

Before you bash me like others my background in the automotive world takes me from the days of carbs and seting points thru electronic carbs upto fuel injection and fiber optics in high end cars. So I am not afraid of the change, I have probly seen more then most of you and had to fix it.

Brushless will be good. But with time and on a bases that its an option on a level playing field. I know I will get a system sooner of later.

Just stop saying screw the brushed guys. Because none of them have said screw you.
You want acceptance you need to go about it in a different mannor!

$5.00 Worth.

Hardly ever politically correct
Hector.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:10 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
he hee haa ha. Keep thinking that brushless will be the savior of r/c racing.!

Racer oz you just hit the nail on the head with the it wont be cheaper. I bet there will be a new system introduced every month.

Look to all you guys that are happy and thrilled for brushless. Your beliefs and opinions are fine. But bashing and making a here in your face attitued is just the positive behavior you need to get respect and acceptance.

Oldschoolers as a whole are the guys that you guys have a problem with because with time we figured out that black magic stuff you guys call motor tunning. You sit and say how we dont adapt. Anyone in this hobby since the day wiper speedos were the norm has adopted to technology many more times then anyone whos entered this hobby in the past 4 or 5 years. You got your brushless motors okayed for racing, but your still going to get smoked by the old guys that will persiveer and learn this stuff. Do you think we would be in this hobby for this long if we didnt overcome the fear of new technology!
If you cant figure out or like working on motors do you also honestly think you will master suspension tuning. Because that will be a bigger issue now as well as figuring in other variables in getting the car to work.
Eliminating one issue will only increase the importance of another which alot more people have a problem with.

Before you bash me like others my background in the automotive world takes me from the days of carbs and seting points thru electronic carbs upto fuel injection and fiber optics in high end cars. So I am not afraid of the change, I have probly seen more then most of you and had to fix it.

Brushless will be good. But with time and on a bases that its an option on a level playing field. I know I will get a system sooner of later.

Just stop saying screw the brushed guys. Because none of them have said screw you.
You want acceptance you need to go about it in a different mannor!

$5.00 Worth.

Hardly ever politically correct
Hector.

Yeah but can you dance ......... LOL nice avatar Hector !
Bob
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:28 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally posted by RCsilly
Yeah but can you dance ......... LOL nice avatar Hector !
Bob
Yes bob I'll do the little dance just for you! How you doing buddy!
You feeling better? Iam going to try and see if I come up and race with you guys man we had a riot at the champs. The look on tims face when all that junk was on his table was funny!
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:36 AM   #237
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There are way too many misconceptions here about brushless motors.... There is no magic software that's going to make, let's say, a Novak 5800 any faster than what it is.... Just like a brushed motor if you want to go faster you need the go down in windings.... Sensored motors have the advantage over sensorless in that the ESC knows where the rotor is in relation to the stator.... Sensorless have a bad tendancy to not want to move from a dead stop....

I am one of the "old skoolers" I started with cox cars in the 70's and made them radio control.... I have see a lot of change, most for the better, some for the worse....

Saying you don't like tuning motors has nothing to do with tuning suspension.... I do dislike tuning electric motors.... I own a dyno and I do what I have to..... I'm happy that brushless is now permitted... I can spend less time screwing with motors and more time screwing with suspension and putting down laps.... Being an ex full size car and motorcycle racer, fuel injection was a godsend. It now gave me much more time to work on other area's of my machines than tearing down carb's and changing jets.... I can tell you how enjoyable it is to pull 4 carbs off an I4 motorcycle, change the jets and then recalibrate the carbs.... You're day is basically over.... Now I can just plug my laptop in and do the same adjustments in a metter of seconds, not hours....

This change is good....

Roar should have waited 1 week to impliment the rule change, I'll agree to that.....
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:40 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally posted by vtl1180ny
Roar should have waited 1 week to impliment the rule change, I'll agree to that.....
Better yet, they should follow their own rules regarding product approval.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:41 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by speedxl
he hee haa ha. Keep thinking that brushless will be the savior of r/c racing.!
Brushless isn't. Nitro is.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:44 AM   #240
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I'll never believe that one.
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