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Old 03-17-2005, 10:09 PM   #211
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All the old timers who have the time and money to throw away on brushes...Lathes...Dynos...Etc, can just SHOVE IT!

As someone who has been in R/C for over 18 years, the ROAR and IFMAR approval of brushless is NOTHING LESS THAN A GODSEND.

The small and LARGE motor companies who are scared of change and actively RESIST it in order to make more cash (TRINITY) can quite simply go to hell.

It's time for better efficiency, better performance, less maintenance and more time DRIVING.

If your in the way of progress, pull over.
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:26 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rick Hohwart
ROAR establishes the rules. If they rule the motors can be used, then they are legal and nobody is breaking the rules.
You do road racing, and don't realize something quite important?

It doesn't matter what Rick Wilson said in a phone call or email. It doesn't matter what any ROAR official told LRP & Novak on the phone or by email.

The only thing that matters is what is printed in the rulebook. Since brushless is not its own class (19t is entirely illegal motors), then the motors have to meet the procedures outllined in the '05 rules + brushless addendum.

Either they do.... or don't

All it would take is one driver protesting in mod to find out.

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Old 03-17-2005, 10:33 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally posted by bpm
All it would take is one driver protesting in mod to find out.
Not really. Its called a deviation. In this case a deviation for not only this race but all of 2005 it appears. Here is a ROAR ExCom member's explanation....

Quote:
Originally posted by Dawn Sanchez
Yes, brushless and brushed motors are approved to run in competition together as per posted ROAR rules on the website as of March 5, 2005. Although there are no motors on the approved list, ROAR has allowed a deviation to the approval process for 19T motors in 2005 and now brushless - as long as they meet the posted rules and specifications.

http://www.roarracing.com/rules/pdfs...hless-rule.doc
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:35 PM   #214
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Honestly, I am going to miss working on my motors, It is a joke between some of the guys that I race with how fast I go through a comm. It is part of the fun.
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:43 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtc3od
Honestly, I am going to miss working on my motors, It is a joke between some of the guys that I race with how fast I go through a comm. It is part of the fun.
Don't worry...you'll now have more time for chassis setup...
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:47 PM   #216
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they should make a new class for brushed only...call it the old foaggies class
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Old 03-17-2005, 10:56 PM   #217
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Originally posted by 403forbidden
they should make a new class for brushed only...call it the old foaggies class
And they should make a new class for brushless only...call it the new lazy asses
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:02 PM   #218
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Default Simmer down now

No need to be rude. Brushless, no crystals, now if i could grow foam tires in my backyard I would really be happy.
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:10 PM   #219
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I wasn't being rude, just having fun as you can see by the big smiley at the end of my sentence
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:17 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally posted by mtc3od
And they should make a new class for brushless only...call it the new lazy asses
Pop quiz...When was the 3-pole DC electric motor invented???

Answer: 1893


Question...why haven't we been using brushless motors for years now? I mean...they've been in computers and powering high-amperage fans since the 1970s!

Answer: Trinity and other "Big Dogs" in racing. Look at how much revinue you lose if you stop selling brushes, brush tools, Comm Lathes, Motor Dynos, etc.

You lose alot of money initially...Plus it's hard work to uproot ALL you've known since the 1960s. Ernie Provetti (spelling?) President of Trinity began Trinity as a slot-car products company. He personally started back in the late 1960s hand-winding motors for people.

"Old School" motor tech is what Trinity was and IS built on. However they have controlled FAR TOO MANY aspects of this market for WAY TOO LONG. It's time for them to loosen their grip a bit and allow progress to continue, OR the racers will ignore Trinity and sanctioning bodies, start an offshoot sanctioning body and go from there.

ROAR and IFMAR saw the writing on the wall and forced the companies hands by allowing brushless. If they didn't, they saw that a popular racer revolt could of occured in the future.

NORRCA would of been more than happy to pick up ROAR's slack in that department.

http://www.norrca.com/driverslicense.html
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Old 03-17-2005, 11:57 PM   #221
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Speak it Soviet! You da Man!
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Old 03-18-2005, 12:18 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally posted by GordonFreeman
Speak it Soviet! You da Man!
Thanks Gordon...So, by the way, how are things at Black Mesa these days?
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Old 03-18-2005, 01:07 AM   #223
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Again.....its not about brushless being part of the racing program roar has, its the fact at this point, they being allowed to cheat their own rules........by being provided some form of an exemption with no official notice from ROAR.....

I am all for brushless being part of the hobby, like I said before, I have one in the works....

And if you could of found an affordable brushless RC motor in 1985, then you must be a genius. The speed controllers we had for brushed weren't that great and still cost a couple hundred bucks......by 1990, they were not much better.....the Aveox stuff they had was $600+ for a system.....and they worked like crap back in the mid 1990s....

Brushless motors were invented back in the 60's.......long before trinity ever exsisted....

The simple matter on brushless motors is the technology sucked until the last couple of years for RC use.......it had nothing to do with Trinity keeping them out. Nothing stopped any company from bringing them out.....and look what happens, they do and ROAR has adopted them into their system....

A little scenario for you "brushless rules, screw the brushed world" brain surgeons.....

What about Joe Blow ROAR member....the guy who doesn't make a ton of money, but likes to race.....he has scrimped and saved over the years to get a lathe, dyno, a field of motors, along with the tools to get them working good. Under your attitude.....you are saying screw this guy, he can take his crap and shove it.

That's such a wonderful attitude toward a fellow hard working racer......yeah, I know....he can just buy a brushless....but last I checked, thats $200+ just for a unit that is as fast as a 19t....a decent amount of cash for a lot of people....

Making people feel crappy and that their hard earned money has gone to waste is pretty lame...

An offshoot sanctioining body might be a good idea.....assuming they can make some rules and stick to them.....thats the issue here, not that brushless is entering the competitive racing side of the hobby....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-18-2005, 01:08 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soviet
Answer: Trinity and other "Big Dogs" in racing. Look at how much revinue you lose if you stop selling brushes, brush tools, Comm Lathes, Motor Dynos, etc.

***
The small and LARGE motor companies who are scared of change and actively RESIST it in order to make more cash (TRINITY) can quite simply go to hell.
before telling them to go to hell, think who else is impacted by the revenue loss....your local hobby shop. sure trinity (and any other successful company) is driven #1 by profit, and you know what....hobby shops around the world thank them for that. the large team, race sponsorships, abundant advertising, and high margin products are all promoting business for your local hobby shop.

don't get me wrong, i like bl, i have 2 5800 systems and will be buying the unlimited version when it is released. BUT...i won't be name calling the profit driven company that is doing more for my local shop than just about any other company whose products they sell.

i think i agree with most of what soviet is saying, just pointing out to look at it from the rest of the supply chain rather than just the manufacturer.
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Old 03-18-2005, 01:12 AM   #225
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I believe brushless will help increase the popularity of electric R/C. Without a doubt this will be a great asset to the electric industry….

If ROAR doesn’t revamp their current rules for brushed electric motors, allowing for us to use rare-earth magnets and multi segmented armatures, our current electric motors will defiantly become fazes out and obsolete…. However, allowing manufactures to utilize these advancements would allow for us to level the playing field between brushless and brushed electric motor (runtime, power output, efficiency & longevity).

I absolutely agree that one or two runs between motor rebuilds, just for the sake of being competitive is out of control. Especially for the people who enjoy driving their cars, rather than tinkering with their motors…

Some of the larger motor companies have been producing some pretty crappy motors these last few years. This in turn hasn’t helped the popularity of modified touring cars, where we need to use 7 and 8 turn motors to be competitive. One run brushes, armatures throwing winds, balancing epoxy flinging off, isn’t to appealing to the average race who pays for there own motors……I had the privilege of attending the On-Road Worlds in Florida this year. Through out the modified touring event I counted well over 40 motors that blew up. Either thrown a wind and abruptly stopped, or had gone out of balance so badly they were about the speed of a 19 turn down the straightaway. Knowing that these manufactures went to the Worlds with their BEST stuff, and the outcome was as mentioned is a bit disturbing to say the least. Makes me wonder how bad there production motors are???

Bottom line, this advancement is welcomed and well overdue. Undoubtedly this will force the hand of our current motor manufactures to clean up their act and actually produce a quality product, or reap the consequences….


Food for thought….Did you know the most-powerful & most-efficient DC electric motors ARE NOT BRUSHLESS motors, but are a type of brushed DC motors….

Curtis,
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