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Old 09-17-2012, 10:55 AM   #46
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You do not even need a abandoned tennis court. Talk to the city or park owner and see if a club could use the court at certain times.

I drive on a basketball court at the local park with no problems. Spend about 10 mins sweeping and the surface is ready to go. Tennis courts are coated with the same surface and provide great traction.

I think RTR cars would be a benefit to on road. It is less intimidating to start a new class if you do not have to build the car. Lets face it after SCT the average driver is not as interested in building a car anymore. The price point also needs to drop down to something similar to the SCT. The high end kits can still be expensive but think about the newbies that knows very little about RC. Give them an option they can go purchase at the store, put a battery in and go race. This along with scale looks is why SCT exploded like it did.

The local club I race at, city owned track, and hobby shop, all came into existence because of guys buying and racing RTR SCTs. To say RTR does not get people into racing is false. The days of the average driver building a kit car to go racing are over. They just want a car to drive and race.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:08 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
RTRs do get people into racing, if you let them.
If someone has an RTR and fancies trying their hand at racing, if the club allows them they will start running their RTR to see if they like it, then will upgrade to 'race legal' equipment.
The only newcomers I have known who actually ask what equipment they need before wanting to race are people who used to race years ago and are getting back into it. Telling a youngster that the stock HPI Sprint or Tamiya TT01 can't run because he has the wrong electrics in, even though it will never win a race, isn't going to encourage him to go out and buy a brushless system just to give it a try.

At my club we have a bunch of drivers that will do very well at regional and national race meetings, all with the latest spec chassis and equipment. Yet we have just as many novices with cheap RTR chassis with cheap non legal motors, who seem to enjoy themselves just as much even though they aren't bothered about winning races.

Strangely enough, we used to have two on road clubs in my town. While my club will let you start off with whatever you have, the other club would also insist even new racers bought race legal equipment, and that they needed a racing chassis instead of letting them start with whatever they had. It was run by a local hobby shop, so had plenty of publicity that my club doesn't have. The other club eventually shut down due to not being able to attract new members, something I have never had a problem doing.
^^^^ this^^^^^
Post is spot on
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #48
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You do not even need a abandoned tennis court. Talk to the city or park owner and see if a club could use the court at certain times.
True and its much easier to talk a park or even a city council into letting you have the court for a day than it is to convince them to let you have it for a season or several seasons. But if you do it that way then you can't put up a permanent drivers stand or paint the track or put down permanent barriers. Setting up the track with no help is probably one of the most often reasons a track director will quit. At least in scenarios where the track has to be assembled everytime you race. I still agree that a tennis or outdoor basketball court makes a great track surface.

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I drive on a basketball court at the local park with no problems. Spend about 10 mins sweeping and the surface is ready to go. Tennis courts are coated with the same surface and provide great traction.
I also found this to be true but in cases where you use treaded tires like in VTA the abrasive on the court will eat the tires, especially the fronts, in about a day of racing. Slicks tend to hold up much better.

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I think RTR cars would be a benefit to on road. It is less intimidating to start a new class if you do not have to build the car. Lets face it after SCT the average driver is not as interested in building a car anymore. The price point also needs to drop down to something similar to the SCT. The high end kits can still be expensive but think about the newbies that knows very little about RC. Give them an option they can go purchase at the store, put a battery in and go race. This along with scale looks is why SCT exploded like it did.
I agree on this one as well, but I can't control the industry. I do think that the RTR TC4 and the Sprint 2 do fine as entry level cars and as easy conversions to VTA or USGT cars. There is a guy at HotShots and I cant remember who told me that they did this but he set his old car up as a complete VTA car and made it available for sale. Just so a newbie would have a viable option to get in. He put the class above his own needs.

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The local club I race at, city owned track, and hobby shop, all came into existence because of guys buying and racing RTR SCTs. To say RTR does not get people into racing is false. The days of the average driver building a kit car to go racing are over. They just want a car to drive and race.
RTR's lead to bashing. Bashing leads to racing. Spooning leads to forking, wait! What were we talking about? Squirrel!!!
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #49
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True and its much easier to talk a park or even a city council into letting you have the court for a day than it is to convince them to let you have it for a season or several seasons. But if you do it that way then you can't put up a permanent drivers stand or paint the track or put down permanent barriers. Setting up the track with no help is probably one of the most often reasons a track director will quit. At least in scenarios where the track has to be assembled everytime you race. I still agree that a tennis or outdoor basketball court makes a great track surface.
You can get a barrier system down pretty quickly if you want. One of the guys in the club here as his own system we have used. Sets up very quickly.




The drivers stand is not a huge deal for on road. With a small space like a tennis court just some nice step stools can be plenty.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:36 AM   #50
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I'd like to add my 2 cents since I'm just getting into touring cars. I think the biggest hurdle is cost, followed by a clear competitive path for new drivers. This article basically spells out how to get started, and to get a decent competitive car, the guy spent just over $500. Granted, a little bit could have been shaved by going with a Chinese radio, servo, and battery, but still, with shipping and all the tools and everything, $500 is where you have to start.

http://www.rcdriver.com/rcd/index.ph...ing-car-build/

To dive into a hobby where $500 just gets you started is hard to swallow for a lot of people, especially kids/teens and not knowing if you're going to like it. Yes, there are a couple RTR cars out there, but still, the RTR TC4 will cost you $240 + charger + battery, and that's for a brushed motor and ESC with an AM transmitter. Put in a basic brushless system, + charger + battery, plus and other misc tools, tires, etc...you're back up to $500 (with an AM transmitter).

IMO, more truly competitive packages clearly outlined for new people may help. Maybe even this forum could help with a sticky in the rookie section. Basically, "build" a competitive car and provide the budget and links to buy stuff. List different budgets, like $400 Buy: a, b, c..., $500 Buy: a, b, c...., $550 Buy: a, b, c.... Etc... I know I struggled a little to order all the right parts and pieces to put together an entry level car, and I'm not new to RC (off-road 1/10th buggy guy), but there was/is still a lot to learn and research figuring out everything. Come to think of it, I just might post my build when complete for anyone looking for the same thing.

Yes, of course you can buy used, but some people, like me, enjoy the bonding and building experience of a new car. It feels more like "your" car when you do so.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:56 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Corners View Post
I'd like to add my 2 cents since I'm just getting into touring cars. I think the biggest hurdle is cost, followed by a clear competitive path for new drivers. This article basically spells out how to get started, and to get a decent competitive car, the guy spent just over $500. Granted, a little bit could have been shaved by going with a Chinese radio, servo, and battery, but still, with shipping and all the tools and everything, $500 is where you have to start.

http://www.rcdriver.com/rcd/index.ph...ing-car-build/

To dive into a hobby where $500 just gets you started is hard to swallow for a lot of people, especially kids/teens and not knowing if you're going to like it. Yes, there are a couple RTR cars out there, but still, the RTR TC4 will cost you $240 + charger + battery, and that's for a brushed motor and ESC with an AM transmitter. Put in a basic brushless system, + charger + battery, plus and other misc tools, tires, etc...you're back up to $500 (with an AM transmitter).

IMO, more truly competitive packages clearly outlined for new people may help. Maybe even this forum could help with a sticky in the rookie section. Basically, "build" a competitive car and provide the budget and links to buy stuff. List different budgets, like $400 Buy: a, b, c..., $500 Buy: a, b, c...., $550 Buy: a, b, c.... Etc... I know I struggled a little to order all the right parts and pieces to put together an entry level car, and I'm not new to RC (off-road 1/10th buggy guy), but there was/is still a lot to learn and research figuring out everything. Come to think of it, I just might post my build when complete for anyone looking for the same thing.

Yes, of course you can buy used, but some people, like me, enjoy the bonding and building experience of a new car. It feels more like "your" car when you do so.
Think you've made some really good points. My guess is TC chassis do not sell in the volume that many of the off road platforms do nor do they share as many parts across lines. The unit price is higher and if things work anything like they do where I'm employed, then the TC will not get subsidized by other product lines to keep the price down. It is encouraging when a company does offer a lower priced product like the Associated TC4 Club racer or the RTR from Team Magic which looks really nice for a $220 RTR. Spec R is coming out with a sub $300 chassis and the Sakura S has a lot of fans as a sub $150 offering. There is a part of my brain that is gaining a louder voice saying that the expenditure I've put in to RC is completly ridiculous. Then I think of playing golf, cycling, guitars or any of my other hobbies and realize I'm getting off rather cheaply.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:24 AM   #52
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To dive into a hobby where $500 just gets you started is hard to swallow for a lot of people, especially kids/teens and not knowing if you're going to like it. Yes, there are a couple RTR cars out there, but still, the RTR TC4 will cost you $240 + charger + battery, and that's for a brushed motor and ESC with an AM transmitter. Put in a basic brushless system, + charger + battery, plus and other misc tools, tires, etc...you're back up to $500 (with an AM transmitter).
The link you posted is about getting a competitive racing setup for an experienced racer, nothing to do with beginners. To get started why do you need a brushless system, or lipo batteries or a high end charger and radio. The kit tyres will do them fine until they wear them out, and what tools do they absolutely need apart from a pair of pliers and a screwdriver or two and what comes with the kit.

Add another $60 to the Associated TC4 RTR and for $300 you have something capable of racing. An HPI E10 or Tamiya TT01 package would be $60 cheaper than that. None of them are going to win races, but that's totally irrelevant to beginners.

Nothing puts beginners off more than being told what they need to be competitive. Then for those who can afford a decent race setup, nothing puts beginners off more than finding out that while they have the same equipment as everyone else they are nowhere near as fast on the track.

Beginners don't need competitive equipment, they just need somewhere to race their RTR kits with a 540 motor and nimh cells and to mix with other racers. If they can run in a rookie heat with whatever they have, TT01s, HPI Sprints, even buggies if that's all they have, they don't care about whether their equipment is race legal or are matching lap times with other racers as long as they beat their mates in the rookie heat. we usually have as many in our rookie class than we have top level drivers because we let them run whatever they have. Two weeks ago our rookie heat had 5 drivers under 10 years old, those are who you want to attract and keep hold of as in 5+ years time they will be the ones keeping your club going as the older racers retire from the sport.

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I know I struggled a little to order all the right parts and pieces to put together an entry level car, and I'm not new to RC (off-road 1/10th buggy guy), but there was/is still a lot to learn and research figuring out everything.
The point here is you aren't a newbie, you have already run in other classes and want to take your racing as seriously as you can within your budget. Someone putting together their own package isn't a newbie to racing. The beginners the class wants to attract to expand the number of racers are people who have a car and want to try racing, or people who see the cars racing and want to have a go themselves. None of those are going to search out RCTech before starting, nor are they going to research what to buy before they start.


Remember where touring cars came from.
In the early 90s if you wanted to race electric on road you raced 1/12th or Pro10. Then Tamiya created touring cars using a narrowed Manta Ray chassis, which were popular for buyers due to their scale looks and that you could run them on any tarmac or concrete area. Hobby shops started laying out simple tracks in the car parks to give the touring car buyers somewhere to race them, mainly using the kit 540 motors, three step speed controls and kit hard rubber tyres. Touring car parking lot racing was popular because the cars were cheap to buy and run and most people ran stock, in exactly the same way the Slash started short course racing 20 years later. Just like short course today people started modifying them, then race versions started appearing until it changed into the beginner unfriendly touring cars we have today.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Corners View Post

http://www.rcdriver.com/rcd/index.ph...ing-car-build/


Yes, of course you can buy used, but some people, like me, enjoy the bonding and building experience of a new car. It feels more like "your" car when you do so.
You can always download the manual when a used purchase is made, strip the car down to nothing, and start with a fresh rebuild. It's something you should be doing on a regular basis anyways. I've heard people in the past complain about how some companies (i.e Xray) come out with new cars too quickly... well personally I'm all for it. It just means that the "must have the latest" guys will be willing to dump off their minimal-usage cars in a hurry for a low $$$. For a weekend club racer like myself, it's all I need. Getting to know sponsored dudes that take it real serious is always good. You can put a package together that would be mega-expensive if bought new/retail for a fraction of the cost. Just my take on things...
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:50 AM   #54
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Terry,
Totally agree, as usual.
I first went to a club back in 1983, and if they had enforced the rules of the class they were running ( which happened to be 12th scale stockcars, which I know you remember, but how many others here do..?) then I with my Tamiya Holiday Buggy would not of gotten to try running around a track, which sees me now almost 30 years later still doing it, and still having fun.

Keep in mind we are out having fun, playing with toy cars, and you won't go far wrong.

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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
The link you posted is about getting a competitive racing setup for an experienced racer, nothing to do with beginners. To get started why do you need a brushless system, or lipo batteries or a high end charger and radio. The kit tyres will do them fine until they wear them out, and what tools do they absolutely need apart from a pair of pliers and a screwdriver or two and what comes with the kit.

Add another $60 to the Associated TC4 RTR and for $300 you have something capable of racing. An HPI E10 or Tamiya TT01 package would be $60 cheaper than that. None of them are going to win races, but that's totally irrelevant to beginners.

Nothing puts beginners off more than being told what they need to be competitive. Then for those who can afford a decent race setup, nothing puts beginners off more than finding out that while they have the same equipment as everyone else they are nowhere near as fast on the track.

Beginners don't need competitive equipment, they just need somewhere to race their RTR kits with a 540 motor and nimh cells and to mix with other racers. If they can run in a rookie heat with whatever they have, TT01s, HPI Sprints, even buggies if that's all they have, they don't care about whether their equipment is race legal or are matching lap times with other racers as long as they beat their mates in the rookie heat. we usually have as many in our rookie class than we have top level drivers because we let them run whatever they have. Two weeks ago our rookie heat had 5 drivers under 10 years old, those are who you want to attract and keep hold of as in 5+ years time they will be the ones keeping your club going as the older racers retire from the sport.


The point here is you aren't a newbie, you have already run in other classes and want to take your racing as seriously as you can within your budget. Someone putting together their own package isn't a newbie to racing. The beginners the class wants to attract to expand the number of racers are people who have a car and want to try racing, or people who see the cars racing and want to have a go themselves. None of those are going to search out RCTech before starting, nor are they going to research what to buy before they start.


Remember where touring cars came from.
In the early 90s if you wanted to race electric on road you raced 1/12th or Pro10. Then Tamiya created touring cars using a narrowed Manta Ray chassis, which were popular for buyers due to their scale looks and that you could run them on any tarmac or concrete area. Hobby shops started laying out simple tracks in the car parks to give the touring car buyers somewhere to race them, mainly using the kit 540 motors, three step speed controls and kit hard rubber tyres. Touring car parking lot racing was popular because the cars were cheap to buy and run and most people ran stock, in exactly the same way the Slash started short course racing 20 years later. Just like short course today people started modifying them, then race versions started appearing until it changed into the beginner unfriendly touring cars we have today.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #55
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You can get a barrier system down pretty quickly if you want. One of the guys in the club here as his own system we have used. Sets up very quickly. The drivers stand is not a huge deal for on road. With a small space like a tennis court just some nice step stools can be plenty.
That does look nice. Any idea what the money would be on a setup like that? The step ladders are a great idea also. I have thought about having a Bucket Race. A five gallon bucket is your drivers stand.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:09 PM   #56
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I believe that on-road racing is making a comeback. When I started in this hobby, 9 years ago, on-road racing was on a decline. However, over the last 8 years, there has been huge leaps in R/C electronics (i.e. LiPo batteries and Brushless Motors) that have revived on-road racing once again.

BTW, have you seen the latest 'subliminal' advertisement for Xray's next product?
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:21 PM   #57
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Not dead in my city.. Usually 2 to 3 full heats on club race nights.
It's actually more than that. Once the on-road season starts in October (I'm not discounting the other club in town; I'm referring mostly to TC racing), we'll generally have 5 heats of TC (3 stock, 2 S-stock), plus 2-3 of Mini, and maybe even the occasional 1/12th scale.

On-road racing in Calgary is pretty healthy, as far as I'm concerned. There used to be a bigger turnout at the other club, but for whatever reason attendance has been declining a bit. It'll probably pickup with winter coming, and not having an NHL season (my opinion) will further drive out people on the weekend.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:30 PM   #58
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That does look nice. Any idea what the money would be on a setup like that? The step ladders are a great idea also. I have thought about having a Bucket Race. A five gallon bucket is your drivers stand.
Not sure on the price. It was all made out of spare sheet metal. He works for a heating and cooling company.

I think there is a market for an inexpensive barrier system. Not these high end systems used for international level races. Something cheap and easy you can put up and tear down in minimal time for temporary tracks.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:31 PM   #59
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Nothing puts beginners off more than being told what they need to be competitive. Then for those who can afford a decent race setup, nothing puts beginners off more than finding out that while they have the same equipment as everyone else they are nowhere near as fast on the track.
Well, you've been around way longer than I have (I have participated in precisely zero TC races), but I just wanted to say that I would never be put off by someone telling me that I should have x at a minimum in order to compete on the entry club level (notice I did not say "must"). Maybe I'm a bit different, but I'd feel inferior and embarrassed to show up to a club event with something that does not come close to what the entry level guys are running. I want to "fit in". I don't want my equipment holding me back; I want my (lack of) driving skill to be the reason I can't keep up.

I think we're also talking about 2 different things. I'm talking about what it takes to get new guys out racing at the club level, and I think you're talking about just getting bodies out there once or twice. Yes, you could take a toys-r-us car out and drive it around a track one night for fun, but that's not going to retain anyone. I'd be very discouraged continuing to drive an overly inferior car week after week. And even still, say they had so much fun driving their toys-r-us mobile that they want to step it up, you're back to looking at that $500 number. I think people want to feel they are on equal ground. Well, at least for me personally.

Also, there's no denying that beginners want to bash. Most of us learned how to drive their RC's on the streets and yards in front of their house, and is the reason why I think off-road cars are more popular. Off-road cars are fun to bash with, and generally hold up well trying to drive through your yard, run off the road on accident, try to drive at full speed down the sidewalk, and jump stuff. I don't think most people would desire a fragile, belt driven road car with 5mm ground clearance for their first car. People want to bash, and they want to go fast.

Just my noob guesses.

Cheers.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:47 PM   #60
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Just ask a few of the pro drivers mentioned in this web page...
If On Road is so dead, why so many new chassis ?-xray_t4_home_splsh.jpg
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