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Old 09-15-2012, 03:05 PM   #31
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Are you guys paying the city for the use of their land? or are they just giving it to you freely? Either way good for you guys to get it done! I know that there is some tracks accross the US that are helped by the Gov but how many of them are within Larger Cities in the US where it would draw from a larger pool of people?

Racing on-road was bigger back in the 90's early 2000's then it is now and the internet had nothing to do with it. If the internet is the reason you are in it now thats great but I dont think thats what held it back before.
the city of Seatac is giving them the land and a small start up budget, I think it was 19K or so, but don't hold me to it.

the carpet track is with the city of seattle and they pay rent for each night, not sure how much, couple hundred bucks or less I imagine. and racing only twice a month makes for a good turnout.

and to tell the truth, I think the internet has killed a couple of local tracks, among other factors
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:18 PM   #32
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Its the same issue with Slash...how many tracks still offer a box stock Slash class? The slash class has evolved into the SC class thats taken over offroad. The point is that a RTR isnt going to get people into racing. If they are interested in racing they will buy a racing chassis its that simple. All any RTR is going to do is to get their feet wet and show them what RC is all about....after that its up to the end user to decide if they want to race or not.
There are three tracks in our state that run box stock slash class. Two off-road and one on-road. IMHO if a few one or two companies Made VTA or USGT RTR it might help get new people started. That is what RC needs an easy way to get new people into and hooked on racing.

I was a club pro in golf. We liked to get new people playing, even knowing we would lose 40-60% of them. If you keep 4 out of 10 who try it your way ahead of the game.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.....pull it out of box and race it!
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:21 PM   #33
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There are three tracks in our state that run box stock slash class. Two off-road and one on-road. IMHO if a few one or two companies Made VTA or USGT RTR it might help get new people started. That is what RC needs an easy way to get new people into and hooked on racing.

I was a club pro in golf. We liked to get new people playing, even knowing we would lose 40-60% of them. If you keep 4 out of 10 who try it your way ahead of the game.

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.....pull it out of box and race it!
That's kind've my take. You'd think HPI would offer something like that considering you have to use their tires/wheels for VTA.

Here in the midwest it is not uncommon to have a stock slash class at some tracks I go to.

Most people start out with RTR's these days. Most don't realize they like racing until they try it. There really isn't a Traxxas Slash equivalent for on road when you think about it. Until there is, on road just won't be as accessible.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:34 PM   #34
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The cheap box stock classes already exist I.e tamiya mini cooper. All of this comparison to a slash is understandable , but traxxas didn't build a truck for a class they made a class......
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:38 PM   #35
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The cheap box stock classes already exist I.e tamiya mini cooper. All of this comparison to a slash is understandable , but traxxas didn't build a truck for a class they made a class......
Your right, but what is easer building a new class or taking advantage of a class that is already there. Novak has the market in VTA just get with a chassis maker and make a nice RTR and I think you might have something. But I could be wrong....
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:49 PM   #36
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Its the same issue with Slash...how many tracks still offer a box stock Slash class? The slash class has evolved into the SC class thats taken over offroad. The point is that a RTR isnt going to get people into racing. If they are interested in racing they will buy a racing chassis its that simple. All any RTR is going to do is to get their feet wet and show them what RC is all about....after that its up to the end user to decide if they want to race or not.

While I agree for the most part. it would be nice to see more kids get into the hobby and I personally feel that a class where you could pull it out of the box to meet an instant need our youth has to have would be beneficial to our hobby. I'd love to see a Novice class. Thats what I started running back in the day. Then I won three weeks in a row.....I got kicked out to stock.
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:58 AM   #37
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Simple Kevin. What class would that fit in? Is that VTA legal? nope wrong motor. I have yet to see a class where there is a specific RTR on-road car to throw it down thats fully legal in a class that is run.
You stated that there isn't an on road equivalent to the Slash, well like the HPI Sprint and Tamiya TT01 there are plenty of them already available. Short Course only came about as a class because people bought stock Slashes and then raced them, not because Traxxas created a truck to fit a set of rules. I certainly would not consider VTA as a beginners class, and I'm sure most VTA racers wouldn't class it as such.

If you want to encourage more newcomers into racing, you let them start with whatever they already have. Considering HPI have sold more HPI Sprint RTRs around the world than every high end racing chassis put together, you would think you would be more interested in encouraging them by creating a beginners class, rather than chasing them away by telling them they have the wrong motor/esc/batteries/etc. If you want HPI Sprint owners to start racing you create an HPI Sprint class, and just like the Slash class you only allow box stock cars.

I run an on road club, but if a beginner turns up with anything electric they get to run in the novice heat, buggies, trucks, the lot. After all our beginners class is just racing for fun. Then if they stick at it they get more appropriate gear when they can afford it.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:25 AM   #38
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The point is that a RTR isnt going to get people into racing. If they are interested in racing they will buy a racing chassis its that simple. All any RTR is going to do is to get their feet wet and show them what RC is all about....after that its up to the end user to decide if they want to race or not.
RTRs do get people into racing, if you let them.
If someone has an RTR and fancies trying their hand at racing, if the club allows them they will start running their RTR to see if they like it, then will upgrade to 'race legal' equipment.
The only newcomers I have known who actually ask what equipment they need before wanting to race are people who used to race years ago and are getting back into it. Telling a youngster that the stock HPI Sprint or Tamiya TT01 can't run because he has the wrong electrics in, even though it will never win a race, isn't going to encourage him to go out and buy a brushless system just to give it a try.

At my club we have a bunch of drivers that will do very well at regional and national race meetings, all with the latest spec chassis and equipment. Yet we have just as many novices with cheap RTR chassis with cheap non legal motors, who seem to enjoy themselves just as much even though they aren't bothered about winning races.

Strangely enough, we used to have two on road clubs in my town. While my club will let you start off with whatever you have, the other club would also insist even new racers bought race legal equipment, and that they needed a racing chassis instead of letting them start with whatever they had. It was run by a local hobby shop, so had plenty of publicity that my club doesn't have. The other club eventually shut down due to not being able to attract new members, something I have never had a problem doing.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #39
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to go back to the original question a little,
what I want to know, as a long time racer who hasn't left the hobby, but is this year about to buy my first new car in a couple of years - which chassis to buy?

what I mean is, yes there are lots of new products out there right now, I'm not going to list them, but there's at least 8 new high end race worthy chassis for me to choose from. But, they all look (except maybe the out of stock Awesomematix) almost identical.

so, while it's great that new companies come along, Spec R etc, and existing companies update and re-fresh, I am not sure why we have so many similar cars.

with all that said, I wonder why I should buy anyone over another?
We race Ozite carpet, and I'm sure all the current cars can be made to run fairly equally on that surface, so does it just come down to local support?
or do we just like to try something new?
I'm looking forward to TC again this year, but don't yet know what chassis I'll be doing it with !
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:34 PM   #40
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Not dead in my city.. Usually 2 to 3 full heats on club race nights.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:03 AM   #41
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am shocked by the # of competitive touring cars in the market now
http://slowbunnyrc.blogspot.com/2012...nt-update.html

it is something like the off road kit in the market.
new kit came up after every few months, until it stopped.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:29 AM   #42
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what I mean is, yes there are lots of new products out there right now, I'm not going to list them, but there's at least 8 new high end race worthy chassis for me to choose from. But, they all look (except maybe the out of stock Awesomematix) almost identical.

so, while it's great that new companies come along, Spec R etc, and existing companies update and re-fresh, I am not sure why we have so many similar cars.
Just like buggies all evolved into the same design, every race chassis ends up looking the same because that's what works. Whether the normal modern chassis is the perfect setup or something else is the best layout, all the fastest teams run these cars so they are going to win everything anyway.
Now if a company brings out something different, like for example the Team Magic E4RS, it might be a better layout but because all the big boys run the same style of car it faces an uphill struggle to get sales as racers will ignore it just because it is different and isn't beating the big teams, even though the big teams are only winning because they have signed up all the best drivers. Even Team Magic replaced the E4 with a standard layout car.

Off road seems to attract a different type of driver. If something new and different comes out they will buy it to see what it does. Touring car drivers tend to look at something different and won't touch it until a big name has been successful with it.
Look at the Spec-R for instance. It's a new chassis manufacturer and the car looks the same as everything else and will perform the same, but because it doesn't cost as much as the big name cars it is being criticised as being inferior and to be avoided, rather than there isn't as much price gouging on it as other makes. Just like the Spec-R gear diffs are criticised because their gear diffs are just a little less quality compared to other gear diffs costing over twice as much from more well known makes. At least by making a chassis the same as everyone else there is much more of a chance of getting some racers interested in buying it, if it looked unusual no one would even try it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:32 AM   #43
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Are you guys paying the city for the use of their land? or are they just giving it to you freely? Either way good for you guys to get it done! I know that there is some tracks accross the US that are helped by the Gov but how many of them are within Larger Cities in the US where it would draw from a larger pool of people?
Have you ever noticed every town has tennis courts that nobody seems to use? There must be some guy who retired in the 70's from all the money he made selling towns tennis courts.
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:49 AM   #44
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Touring cars & VTAs - realism
Slash/short course - realism

Majority of people want to drive and race a vehicle that looks like a real racing car.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:59 AM   #45
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Have you ever noticed every town has tennis courts that nobody seems to use? There must be some guy who retired in the 70's from all the money he made selling towns tennis courts.
I tried that and it almost worked, but support died off, the guys who were driving 3 1/2 hours to get there lost interest, and I couldnt get locals to get into the sport. There are several things that I did wrong that I know not to do if I ever try it again. But using a tennis court was the thing that I did right. Here is some footage from its prime.

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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