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Old 09-14-2012, 05:13 PM   #16
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In my opinion racing facilities play a big role. On road is dead in my area number one reason being is there is not an on road track. I also think with hobby shops being put out by online orders the best investment someone could make looking at the business side is building a track complex and charging monthly fees for clubs to use it.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:48 PM   #17
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It was strange, when i was stuck in Boston at the start of the year for a month, i went looking for some RC action, but could only find 1 indoor track and not really close to where i was staying.

Here in Sydney a city about the same size in population as Boston, I have 3 purpose build tracks within 45 min driving, and a non purpose built large covered shed/racetrack 5 min away. At 2 of the tracks i race at its not uncommon to have 60+ people on a club night, and occasionally 40+ in the 21.5 blinky class alone.

So i would say yes, facilities have something to do with it.

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #18
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i wish on road was more popular. but it doesnt seem to be that rare either and i think its growing in comparison to off road. on road doesnt need dirt. where we race we get together in a parking lot with leaf blowers and a small trailer which carries with our road rails and driver stand and flood lights and just get to racing

the on road manufacture selection is getting on par to off road manufacture selection in all price ranges and qualities
im looking for a new tc and the choices out there right now with actual access to the chassis and reasonable parts access (to me reasonable is i can get it in 5 days if i need to) is mind boggling to me. so many brands to choose from.
if the economy wasnt so crappy it would be a great amazing time to be in the hobby
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:43 PM   #19
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I think that on-road needs a low price entry TC for new racers. We use the Slash as an entry level class right now. $300 and you can race on an even playing field. It would be great to see traxxas,TA, HPI, and others come up with a VTA RTR @ $200-$300 price tag. Give the new racer an easy way to get into on-road like the slash has for off road!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:59 PM   #20
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As we see more and more esc's incorporated into VTA I wouldn't be suprised to see that happen. Doesn't HPI have a little side deal with Hobbywing....I know Hobbywing's juststock esc just got approved. Hpi makes RTR. HPI makes TC's...now just if there was more than the Novak motors. If so I could see HPI jumping in VTA as an american off set.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #21
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On-road is my thing but having no tracks in the area hurts. All my onroad cars are now shelf queens. Everyone around here is switching to off-road. I also think the people running the tracks aren't marketing themselves well at all which leads to failure, at least around me.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpk4ud View Post
I think that on-road needs a low price entry TC for new racers. We use the Slash as an entry level class right now. $300 and you can race on an even playing field. It would be great to see traxxas,TA, HPI, and others come up with a VTA RTR @ $200-$300 price tag. Give the new racer an easy way to get into on-road like the slash has for off road!
http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/106130/

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLWG&P=0

How is this any different then a Slash??? What you are talking about is already out there.

The Slash got people to come into the hobby. Then they got to see the racing side of it..people outside of RC didnt run out and buy a slash to race it....they bought it because it was cool and fun to play with. The Slash wasnt/isnt a cure all for racing anything...its a great way to get people to notice RC cars/trucks as a hobby but to get them to race its a whole new ballpark. There are way more cars sold that never see a race track....I would guess that at most 5% of the slash trucks sold actually saw a race track.

What you are looking for to bring back on-road isnt there...you need stable rules and lower cost to bring back who you had before. Which IMO is going on now...the rules for the most part are stable and we are starting to see the head counts climb back up. The real problem in the US is track locations...they are always off the main street some place in the back part of town simply because its cheaper to put it there. Look at my home town Chicago one of the largest cities in the US....there is 1 parking lot race track in its city limits. There is a world class Asphalt On-road track thats 50 minutes away from the city and there is a nice carpet track about the same distance away. Whats the reason for this???? It cost way to much to have a race venue in the city. Around the world you have the local or national gov. step in and lend a helping hand to some of these great tracks we see...that will never happen here in the US. So when you saying its dying it might just be in your area but its because of outside factors not the industry as a whole.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Fred Hubbard View Post
I've been hearing that "onroad is dead drama" for years and it always seems to come from those who don't have a clue on how "trending" and "market cycles" affect EVERYTHING in life. I'm with you Potter if it were dead then companies would not continue to invest in onroad at all!
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/106130/

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLWG&P=0

How is this any different then a Slash??? What you are talking about is already out there.

The Slash got people to come into the hobby. Then they got to see the racing side of it..people outside of RC didnt run out and buy a slash to race it....they bought it because it was cool and fun to play with. The Slash wasnt/isnt a cure all for racing anything...its a great way to get people to notice RC cars/trucks as a hobby but to get them to race its a whole new ballpark. There are way more cars sold that never see a race track....I would guess that at most 5% of the slash trucks sold actually saw a race track.

What you are looking for to bring back on-road isnt there...you need stable rules and lower cost to bring back who you had before. Which IMO is going on now...the rules for the most part are stable and we are starting to see the head counts climb back up. The real problem in the US is track locations...they are always off the main street some place in the back part of town simply because its cheaper to put it there. Look at my home town Chicago one of the largest cities in the US....there is 1 parking lot race track in its city limits. There is a world class Asphalt On-road track thats 50 minutes away from the city and there is a nice carpet track about the same distance away. Whats the reason for this???? It cost way to much to have a race venue in the city. Around the world you have the local or national gov. step in and lend a helping hand to some of these great tracks we see...that will never happen here in the US. So when you saying its dying it might just be in your area but its because of outside factors not the industry as a whole.
Out here in Seattle, we've been running a temp arpet track in a city parks building. The parks department loves us, because we're good citizens and pay our bills on time, and we do what you're supposed to do with parks department: have fun! Now we've got the city of SeaTac helping us build an offroad track on park lands, because we showed the demand for it, and because they want the land put to good use. The longer-term plan is to build a world-class onroad track next to it. We're also working with them to try and repurpose an old, disused tennis court. A little asphalt sealant, a little paint, and you've got an onroad track.

I have to believe that most major cities have buildings (just something like a warehouse or a gym) under parks dept purview. What is needed is club leaders that know how to navigate the political structures to gain access to those resources. We're lucky to just such a person out here (Todd Mason/PutAwayWet). While we're constantly inspired by what we've accomplished, in hindsight I bet it's actually pretty easy. The process seems to be:
1) Find out who to talk to.
2) Come up with a solid proposal.
3) Get a bunch of cheerful, enthusiastic racers to show up at the appropriate meeting to show their support and commitment.
4) ???
5) Race!

Hrm, that sounds like a process that ROAR *should* be able to help wit.

As someone mentioned above, temporary programs are totally viable, especially when they're centrally located. Location gets people there. People make setup and teardown a breeze.

Permanent tracks are very hard to make work as a business. But temporary tracks leveraging parks facilities with reasonable rental fees and storage have low operating overhead and are easily sustainable. Want to shitdown for the summer while everyone hits the asphalt or offroad? Just leave the stuff in storage and don't burn rent.

Solutions are out there, and the more clubs that catch on, the bigger onroad can get.

I wasn't around the rc racing scene back around 2000, and I think the lack of internet forums (at least that I knew about) were part of the reason. It's so much easier to know what's out there and what's going on nowdays. That can only help.

-Mike
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
Out here in Seattle, we've been running a temp arpet track in a city parks building. The parks department loves us, because we're good citizens and pay our bills on time, and we do what you're supposed to do with parks department: have fun! Now we've got the city of SeaTac helping us build an offroad track on park lands, because we showed the demand for it, and because they want the land put to good use. The longer-term plan is to build a world-class onroad track next to it. We're also working with them to try and repurpose an old, disused tennis court. A little asphalt sealant, a little paint, and you've got an onroad track.

I have to believe that most major cities have buildings (just something like a warehouse or a gym) under parks dept purview. What is needed is club leaders that know how to navigate the political structures to gain access to those resources. We're lucky to just such a person out here (Todd Mason/PutAwayWet). While we're constantly inspired by what we've accomplished, in hindsight I bet it's actually pretty easy. The process seems to be:
1) Find out who to talk to.
2) Come up with a solid proposal.
3) Get a bunch of cheerful, enthusiastic racers to show up at the appropriate meeting to show their support and commitment.
4) ???
5) Race!

Hrm, that sounds like a process that ROAR *should* be able to help wit.

As someone mentioned above, temporary programs are totally viable, especially when they're centrally located. Location gets people there. People make setup and teardown a breeze.

Permanent tracks are very hard to make work as a business. But temporary tracks leveraging parks facilities with reasonable rental fees and storage have low operating overhead and are easily sustainable. Want to shitdown for the summer while everyone hits the asphalt or offroad? Just leave the stuff in storage and don't burn rent.

Solutions are out there, and the more clubs that catch on, the bigger onroad can get.

I wasn't around the rc racing scene back around 2000, and I think the lack of internet forums (at least that I knew about) were part of the reason. It's so much easier to know what's out there and what's going on nowdays. That can only help.

-Mike
Are you guys paying the city for the use of their land? or are they just giving it to you freely? Either way good for you guys to get it done! I know that there is some tracks accross the US that are helped by the Gov but how many of them are within Larger Cities in the US where it would draw from a larger pool of people?

Racing on-road was bigger back in the 90's early 2000's then it is now and the internet had nothing to do with it. If the internet is the reason you are in it now thats great but I dont think thats what held it back before.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #26
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Brand new CRC 1/12 scale car is under $200 shipped pre-ordered. That is a very cool car and class at a very attractive price. I'm amazed we still see $500+ TC kits.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/106130/

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBLWG&P=0

How is this any different then a Slash??? What you are talking about is already out there.

The Slash got people to come into the hobby. Then they got to see the racing side of it..people outside of RC didnt run out and buy a slash to race it....they bought it because it was cool and fun to play with. The Slash wasnt/isnt a cure all for racing anything...its a great way to get people to notice RC cars/trucks as a hobby but to get them to race its a whole new ballpark. There are way more cars sold that never see a race track....I would guess that at most 5% of the slash trucks sold actually saw a race track.

What you are looking for to bring back on-road isnt there...you need stable rules and lower cost to bring back who you had before. Which IMO is going on now...the rules for the most part are stable and we are starting to see the head counts climb back up. The real problem in the US is track locations...they are always off the main street some place in the back part of town simply because its cheaper to put it there. Look at my home town Chicago one of the largest cities in the US....there is 1 parking lot race track in its city limits. There is a world class Asphalt On-road track thats 50 minutes away from the city and there is a nice carpet track about the same distance away. Whats the reason for this???? It cost way to much to have a race venue in the city. Around the world you have the local or national gov. step in and lend a helping hand to some of these great tracks we see...that will never happen here in the US. So when you saying its dying it might just be in your area but its because of outside factors not the industry as a whole.

Simple Kevin. What class would that fit in? Is that VTA legal? nope wrong motor. I have yet to see a class where there is a specific RTR on-road car to throw it down thats fully legal in a class that is run.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:51 PM   #28
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It's good to see on-road starting to make a comeback. I think if you could get more parking lot racing going in publics areas that would be of some benefit. Let the public see these things first hand out In the sun.

I may be off but one thing that could work is to have a 2wd drive class w/ the trannies based off the popular off-road rigs.

Most people start in off-road these days and if they can transfer some of their spares over it can soften the blow as far as entry cost goes.

I've noticed the technology turnover in on-road is quite frequent. That's an obstacle not only to the driver who may feel the need to update every couple of years, but to the hobby shop owner as well, because when "X" rc company updates their chassis or redesigns it now they're stuck with an outdated inventory of parts. That's not quite the issue w/ off-road as they don't need to update as drastically or as frequently.

Also, due to the issue w/ limited traction in off-road(sometimes) the differences between having something that is up-to-date and not up to date is at least mitigated at club level racing.

Another thing that could work is to use BoLink/RJ Speed Legends on carpet touring car tracks. They are dirt cheap and the parts are super cheap as well. I've seen these used on a touring style track and they looked like a helluva lot of fun. That could be the low-cost entry solution.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:00 PM   #29
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RC is a cycle...
a few years of Off road being the hotness.
a few years of On-road being the hotness.
On-road is not anywhere near being dead..
it's coming with a tidal wave.
kits are starting to come down in price. as well as other components..

Tires are no longer 50 dollars....most can be purchased for under $30 and premounts to boot.

some of us are diehards...some of are new guys.. some of us go with the cycles.

I for one am glad stuff is starting to look good again.

Northeast USA - On-road is starting to bloom again.
Let's keep it rolling.
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:32 PM   #30
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Simple Kevin. What class would that fit in? Is that VTA legal? nope wrong motor. I have yet to see a class where there is a specific RTR on-road car to throw it down thats fully legal in a class that is run.
Its the same issue with Slash...how many tracks still offer a box stock Slash class? The slash class has evolved into the SC class thats taken over offroad. The point is that a RTR isnt going to get people into racing. If they are interested in racing they will buy a racing chassis its that simple. All any RTR is going to do is to get their feet wet and show them what RC is all about....after that its up to the end user to decide if they want to race or not.
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