221LikesTeam CRC Xti 1/12th Scale!!
03-02-2021, 05:42 PM - Wikipost
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11-14-2012, 04:52 PM
#586
Last night I ran the car and must say it was very easy to drive and fun...
Now for the questions from a 1/12th newbie (you have been given notice
)....
It worked best with 2.5 of front camber (because I did not have a way to measure or a setup board for 1/12th, someone else did and changed it to 1, and the lap times got slower... I need to at .5.... Interesting...
I also having a mind problem with this (it's me....) but to set pod droop the ball end on the center shock does not screw on, it turns to a point then spins... So not sure how to use this to set the pod drop... maybe the end is just bad...
I also was running 2.5mm front RH, 3.0mm Center and 3.5 Rear... Again, this was me not paying attention. I really thought I had it at 3.5, 3.0 and 3.5....
As we corrected issues, I noticed it got harder to drive and the lap times got slower.... I found this interesting....
Now for the questions from a 1/12th newbie (you have been given notice
)....It worked best with 2.5 of front camber (because I did not have a way to measure or a setup board for 1/12th, someone else did and changed it to 1, and the lap times got slower... I need to at .5.... Interesting...
I also having a mind problem with this (it's me....) but to set pod droop the ball end on the center shock does not screw on, it turns to a point then spins... So not sure how to use this to set the pod drop... maybe the end is just bad...
I also was running 2.5mm front RH, 3.0mm Center and 3.5 Rear... Again, this was me not paying attention. I really thought I had it at 3.5, 3.0 and 3.5....
As we corrected issues, I noticed it got harder to drive and the lap times got slower.... I found this interesting....
I've found most use 1 Deg or Less, myself included. I don't know what 2.5 Deg would feel like, but I imagine it probably would impact feel/corner speed in a negative manner and will probably cone the tire pretty bad. Try 1 Deg and if you need more steering, tune something else (softer front spring, more dope, etc.)
For ride height, I almost always use around 4mm (unless on really small tires - In that case closer to 3.5-3.8). Depending on where my tires are at, I might use a slight rake too. I've found its okay to have the center ride height slightly less than the front (.1mm). I'll use something like 3.9mm Front, 3.8mm Center, and 4mm rear. Just so long as the center is never higher than the rear.
Also interested to know what tires your using and the conditions of the track.
11-14-2012, 05:05 PM
#587
11-14-2012, 06:57 PM
#588
Last night I ran the car and must say it was very easy to drive and fun...
Now for the questions from a 1/12th newbie (you have been given notice)....
It worked best with 2.5 of front camber (because I did not have a way to measure or a setup board for 1/12th, someone else did and changed it to 1, and the lap times got slower... I need to at .5.... Interesting...
I also having a mind problem with this (it's me....) but to set pod droop the ball end on the center shock does not screw on, it turns to a point then spins... So not sure how to use this to set the pod drop... maybe the end is just bad...
I also was running 2.5mm front RH, 3.0mm Center and 3.5 Rear... Again, this was me not paying attention. I really thought I had it at 3.5, 3.0 and 3.5....
As we corrected issues, I noticed it got harder to drive and the lap times got slower.... I found this interesting....
Now for the questions from a 1/12th newbie (you have been given notice
)....It worked best with 2.5 of front camber (because I did not have a way to measure or a setup board for 1/12th, someone else did and changed it to 1, and the lap times got slower... I need to at .5.... Interesting...
I also having a mind problem with this (it's me....) but to set pod droop the ball end on the center shock does not screw on, it turns to a point then spins... So not sure how to use this to set the pod drop... maybe the end is just bad...
I also was running 2.5mm front RH, 3.0mm Center and 3.5 Rear... Again, this was me not paying attention. I really thought I had it at 3.5, 3.0 and 3.5....
As we corrected issues, I noticed it got harder to drive and the lap times got slower.... I found this interesting....
11-14-2012, 07:01 PM
#589
11-14-2012, 08:28 PM
#590
Many thanks to everyone on this one... I have shims but they just do not get me 3.5, I get 3.4 or 3.6... Maybe that it is not that big of a deal at this point in my experience, but I'm trying to use these types of things to learn...
Tires - CRC Chrome fronts and CRC Low Grey Rear, cut to Fronts at 1.63 and Rears 1.67. (I just ordered CRC 1/12th Rear Pro-Cut Tires (Magenta), and Pink fronts...)
Treatment, Paragon Ground Effects (Black Can), Full rear, 1/2 fronts, and I can not handle the car for the first 2 mins with this... put on 10mins before going to the track.
Traction is med., the carpet is older and a bit used....
MANY THANKS on the card trick... I did order a RPM camber gauge. I have a setup kit for 1/10th but not 1/12th....
Stew - It was recommended to me to run a little lower in the middle until I get more comfortable with the car. It is more "forgiving"...
I'm beginning to think I FUBARed the tires, and need to run them a bit to un cone them... Thus the reason for the handling issues... (Hey I'm ok with the learning process.)
Others did drive the car, as I felt it was going to the left... quicker, better, then left... But I think I found that issue after I got home, something to do with 2 Qtrs and lifting the front of the car on the setup board, with the car front facing me, the right side would "drop the Qtr" first, so I turned the side springs until it was even.... (hope this was correct... it took just a little less then a 1/2 turn). (Note I think CRC will have a few more new customers after they drove it....People really loved the car..)
?? Does it matter which side you adjust? Again, sorry for the dumb question... or should you adjust a little on both sides to keep them "balanced"?
Bvoltz, I just jumped in here and read your post. Odd that you had better lap times with 2.5 camber, it should have screwed right into the carpet. But that said, what tire combo? What is your carpet traction like? What's your sauce pattern (full rear - 3/4 inside front?)
You really want to aim for 3.25-3.5mm of r/h. You can rake the chassis (lower at the nose then the tail) if you want to increase steering, but that is a very subtle setting.
Yes, the #4262 ride height shims are for the xti.... Burt wins a CRC sticker!
A little trick, you can use a header card, a business card, anything with a square 90* corner as a camber gauge. Place it along side your front tire and see how much gap you have at the top. 0.040" or 1mm is going to be about -1* of camber. We normally do not run that much.... so use just slightly less.
Brian
You really want to aim for 3.25-3.5mm of r/h. You can rake the chassis (lower at the nose then the tail) if you want to increase steering, but that is a very subtle setting.
Yes, the #4262 ride height shims are for the xti.... Burt wins a CRC sticker!
A little trick, you can use a header card, a business card, anything with a square 90* corner as a camber gauge. Place it along side your front tire and see how much gap you have at the top. 0.040" or 1mm is going to be about -1* of camber. We normally do not run that much.... so use just slightly less.
Brian
Treatment, Paragon Ground Effects (Black Can), Full rear, 1/2 fronts, and I can not handle the car for the first 2 mins with this... put on 10mins before going to the track.
Traction is med., the carpet is older and a bit used....
MANY THANKS on the card trick... I did order a RPM camber gauge. I have a setup kit for 1/10th but not 1/12th....
Stew - It was recommended to me to run a little lower in the middle until I get more comfortable with the car. It is more "forgiving"...
I'm beginning to think I FUBARed the tires, and need to run them a bit to un cone them... Thus the reason for the handling issues... (Hey I'm ok with the learning process.)
Others did drive the car, as I felt it was going to the left... quicker, better, then left... But I think I found that issue after I got home, something to do with 2 Qtrs and lifting the front of the car on the setup board
, with the car front facing me, the right side would "drop the Qtr" first, so I turned the side springs until it was even.... (hope this was correct... it took just a little less then a 1/2 turn). (Note I think CRC will have a few more new customers after they drove it....People really loved the car..)?? Does it matter which side you adjust? Again, sorry for the dumb question... or should you adjust a little on both sides to keep them "balanced"?
Last edited by bvoltz; 11-14-2012 at 08:38 PM.
11-14-2012, 08:35 PM
#591
Is this because it has too much steering? If so, try a black front and maybe go to a harder front spring.
I agree with running the center a bit lower, but .5mm is a lot IMO for a 12th scale. I use just a little sag in the center, like I said - maybe .2 mm
I agree with running the center a bit lower, but .5mm is a lot IMO for a 12th scale. I use just a little sag in the center, like I said - maybe .2 mm
Last edited by S.Stew; 11-14-2012 at 08:37 PM. Reason: added content.
11-14-2012, 08:48 PM
#594
Others did drive the car, as I felt it was going to the left... quicker, better, then left... But I think I found that issue after I got home, something to do with 2 Qtrs and lifting the front of the car on the setup board, with the car front facing me, the right side would "drop the Qtr" first, so I turned the side springs until it was even.... (hope this was correct... it took just a little less then a 1/2 turn). (Note I think CRC will have a few more new customers after they drove it....People really loved the car..)
?? Does it matter which side you adjust? Again, sorry for the dumb question... or should you adjust a little on both sides to keep them "balanced"?
, with the car front facing me, the right side would "drop the Qtr" first, so I turned the side springs until it was even.... (hope this was correct... it took just a little less then a 1/2 turn). (Note I think CRC will have a few more new customers after they drove it....People really loved the car..)?? Does it matter which side you adjust? Again, sorry for the dumb question... or should you adjust a little on both sides to keep them "balanced"?
I never do the quarter trick. With the CRC front end, ensure the king pin lengths are precisely equal (.404") and ensure nothing is bent. I'll use the technique I linked only every now and then. I almost always run little to no side spring pre-load. If nothing is bent, you should be able to set the side springs perfectly flat to the lower pod (turn them down until just touching) and be pretty close. You can double check this on a tweak station with the rear of the car on the pivoting end.
Hope this helps
11-14-2012, 09:07 PM
#595
Read THIS and every other article on his blog. Very good content.
I never do the quarter trick. With the CRC front end, ensure the king pin lengths are precisely equal (.404") and ensure nothing is bent. I'll use the technique I linked only every now and then. I almost always run little to no side spring pre-load. If nothing is bent, you should be able to set the side springs perfectly flat to the lower pod (turn them down until just touching) and be pretty close. You can double check this on a tweak station with the rear of the car on the pivoting end.
Hope this helps
I never do the quarter trick. With the CRC front end, ensure the king pin lengths are precisely equal (.404") and ensure nothing is bent. I'll use the technique I linked only every now and then. I almost always run little to no side spring pre-load. If nothing is bent, you should be able to set the side springs perfectly flat to the lower pod (turn them down until just touching) and be pretty close. You can double check this on a tweak station with the rear of the car on the pivoting end.
Hope this helps
11-14-2012, 09:53 PM
#596
This is also a great post for 1/12th scale. Pretty much everything there is to know about 1/12th compiled into 1 post thanks to Redbullfixx:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/californ...ll-so-cal.html
3.4 or 3.6 will be close enough...we're fairly precise with 1/12th but not exact. As for the handling...if it is too much for the first 2 mins at 1/2 sauce on the fronts you might want to try going to 1/3rd sauce on the fronts. It's a quick adjustment to do without having to buy all new tires.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/californ...ll-so-cal.html
3.4 or 3.6 will be close enough...we're fairly precise with 1/12th but not exact. As for the handling...if it is too much for the first 2 mins at 1/2 sauce on the fronts you might want to try going to 1/3rd sauce on the fronts. It's a quick adjustment to do without having to buy all new tires.
11-14-2012, 09:55 PM
#597
This is also a great post for 1/12th scale. Pretty much everything there is to know about 1/12th compiled into 1 post thanks to Redbullfixx:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/californ...ll-so-cal.html
3.4 or 3.6 will be close enough...we're fairly precise with 1/12th but not exact. As for the handling...if it is too much for the first 2 mins at 1/2 sauce on the fronts you might want to try going to 1/3rd sauce on the fronts. It's a quick adjustment to do without having to buy all new tires.
http://www.rctech.net/forum/californ...ll-so-cal.html
3.4 or 3.6 will be close enough...we're fairly precise with 1/12th but not exact. As for the handling...if it is too much for the first 2 mins at 1/2 sauce on the fronts you might want to try going to 1/3rd sauce on the fronts. It's a quick adjustment to do without having to buy all new tires.
I really like 1/12th on the rug... to the point I'm really thinking about taking a break from TC 17.5, carpet is to much for my old ass..... LOL!!! I really need to get up to Grand Rapids and hang out with Stew and the CRC crew.... I will learn a bunch....
11-14-2012, 10:50 PM
#598
Thing about chrome/graylow combo is that the front will need to be CA'ed if you are 41.5 or bigger. If no one has shown you how to CA a side wall, ask around. It's a big time tuning trick. I usually tell newer guys to start out with yellow/black and work your way into graylow/chrome as it's a bit more "racy".
Paragon is "giddy up" from turn one. That's why guys like it so much.
King pin length is very critical. .404" from the bottom of the knuckle to the far side of the e-clip groove is gospel. Make it so!
The quarter trick works so long as your Up Stops are consistent in the front. IF they are, you can tweak in the side springs just fine. Once you "weight" the car or sit it in the suspension, then you will see if the tweak as real. If you have collapsed front spring or different king pin length, you are are going to be in trouble. Turning more to one side then the other is a classic tweak issue. I like to use a tweak station. Remove your damper tubes so that they do not influence your tweak. Set the car on the stand, tap it by the upper rear shock mount. It should settle into where it wants. Adjust as needed. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that this car get annoyed if you preload the side springs. Loosen your side springs till the bubble wont center either way, sneak up on spring tension till the bubble centers without over tension. Over tension maybe your irritating first 2 minutes.
Once you realize that rubber is for condoms, you wont look at TC the same way.
Paragon is "giddy up" from turn one. That's why guys like it so much.
King pin length is very critical. .404" from the bottom of the knuckle to the far side of the e-clip groove is gospel. Make it so!
The quarter trick works so long as your Up Stops are consistent in the front. IF they are, you can tweak in the side springs just fine. Once you "weight" the car or sit it in the suspension, then you will see if the tweak as real. If you have collapsed front spring or different king pin length, you are are going to be in trouble. Turning more to one side then the other is a classic tweak issue. I like to use a tweak station. Remove your damper tubes so that they do not influence your tweak. Set the car on the stand, tap it by the upper rear shock mount. It should settle into where it wants. Adjust as needed. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that this car get annoyed if you preload the side springs. Loosen your side springs till the bubble wont center either way, sneak up on spring tension till the bubble centers without over tension. Over tension maybe your irritating first 2 minutes.
Once you realize that rubber is for condoms, you wont look at TC the same way.
11-15-2012, 12:51 AM
#600