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Team CRC Xti 1/12th Scale!!

Old 08-17-2015, 08:51 PM
  #1831  
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Smile HoBMax track prep

HoBMax's CRC carpet (laid on concrete and not on a wood subfloor) used to fuzz up the foam tires quite badly, so all of the pancar guys typically struggled with keeping traction for 8 minutes. We discovered that Black/Grey seemed to be less prone to picking up carpet fuzz, so that used to be the 1/12th scale tire of choice for racing at HoBMax. The track owner recognized the sketchy traction and the slow to develop groove on race days and so he wanted a way to help the groove develop better and faster. His unique approach to this end was so simple and yet so creative. In advance of our race days, he's been spreading out some rubber tire dust (from our tire truers) on the carpet and he rubs it into the carpet with a push broom. Then he sprays the track lightly with some sort of odorless Paragon. In any event, ever since he happened accross this unusual track prep routine, fuzz pickup has become nearly non-existent and the track now develops a nice dark grippy groove very quicky even with the relatively low participation that's typical of an indoor carpet track during the summer months. One more thing....the racers are only allowed to use SXT 3.0 on their tires. This recently discovered and unique track prep technique has dramatically improved our track condition and our racing experience.
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:29 PM
  #1832  
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I have two Xti Altered Ego. My question is, is the WC worth getting as I mainly run on medium grip asphalt track.

To my knowledge, the narrower waist of the Altered Ego chassis is more suitable for track with less grip. The WC is for high grip carpet. Please enlighten me.

Thank you.
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Old 08-20-2015, 02:19 AM
  #1833  
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Hey all,

I'm new to 1/12 and keen to get a CRC but I have 2 options Xti WC (CLN3214) Vs Xti (CLN 3210) much difference? I don't want to get the wrong one.

Any help would be great!

Thanks heaps,

Todd
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:25 AM
  #1834  
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Get the latest WC edition nothing wrong with any of the others but the WC has the latest developments
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Old 08-20-2015, 06:48 AM
  #1835  
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Originally Posted by Ted Su(TW) View Post
I have two Xti Altered Ego. My question is, is the WC worth getting as I mainly run on medium grip asphalt track.

To my knowledge, the narrower waist of the Altered Ego chassis is more suitable for track with less grip. The WC is for high grip carpet. Please enlighten me.

Thank you.
The WC is an Altered Ego with a slightly stiffer chassis and front end. Both cars run well on asphalt, but will the WC change your life, no. The Altered Ego "U" plate in the front bolts on with 4 bolts, and the WC uses 6. If you bought the WC and wanted to make it like the Altered Ego, you can just take out two of the screws.

Brian Wynn

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Old 08-20-2015, 08:22 AM
  #1836  
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Question on saucing. I have Jaco Black Front and Yellow Rears and we can only use SXT sauce on the carpet. What is a good saucing method/strategy? What is a good cleaning method after the run?
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:27 AM
  #1837  
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Originally Posted by RussF View Post
Question on saucing. I have Jaco Black Front and Yellow Rears and we can only use SXT sauce on the carpet. What is a good saucing method/strategy? What is a good cleaning method after the run?
SXT 3.0 doesn't have softeners in it so it almost doesn't matter what you do. Sauce and let soak for a bit then wipe them down good just before your run.
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Old 08-24-2015, 10:36 PM
  #1838  
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Hey all!

So I finally got a CRC! Xti Altered Ego #3212 (yay me) my first 1/12th

Gents, going to be racing stock and mod with this bad boy so what do you guys recommend for ESC and Servo?

Thanks heaps in advance
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Old 08-25-2015, 09:26 AM
  #1839  
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Just wanted to say thanks to all the guys on here who helped me out with my first 1/12 scale car. Just competed in the Utah Carpet State Champs Race with it. The XTI-WC was great all day. I only had one small problem with one of the damper tubes coming unthreaded and grinding itself on the pinion gear. I ended up with this setup:

Motor: 17.5 ORCA TX (Timed a couple notches above 10', temped about 130)
Servo: Savox SH1250MG
Battery: Protek 5400mah 100C
ESC: Hobbywing Justock 2s (yes 2s no battery)
Body: Protoform Strakka
Diff: Tight (I thought it would break in a bit more than it did)
Gearing 80/59
Rear Tires: Jaco Yellow started at 43 ended at about 42.5
Front Tires: Jaco Black started at 42 ended at about 41.5
Ride Height: 4.5mm all around to start (was as low as I could go with parts I had, track rules was 4)
Camber: 0 degrees
Caster Block: 5'
Toe: 0-.5mm out
Front Springs: .50mm (Kit Included)
Front Droop: Maybe .5 (Not much)
Pod Droop: ?? not sure but pod dropped a lot. Built shock with no O ring under piston because none was suggested in the instructions.
Shock Oil: Kit included not sure what it is
Center Spring: Red
Side Springs: .50mm (Kit Inlcluded) Just touching
Side Damper Lube: 5k (Kit Included)

Like I said the car was great right out of the box so to say. I just built it as the kit specified. Then adjusted for about 0 on everything to start. The only ill effect I could say was that the car tended to want to go right on accelleration. I assume this was the diff being a little too tight but one of the more experience racers said it could be the grain of the carpet as it only happened in certain areas. I have already got some option parts for adjusting the ride height and the front camber gain as well as some smaller gearing both pinions and spurs. I intend on trying different tires and gearing next time I can get the car out to race.

This is what the car ended up looking like inside and out.









And the end result was this:
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:26 AM
  #1840  
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Russ, you didn't include in your write up that you won! Congrats!

One little trick I do when I build tubes: motor spray out the tube & threaded stud, then CA it in place. That way you thread your tube into the ball cup and it stays put.

Pod droop gets explained many ways. If you set your chassis on 10mm blocks and you measure at the rear pod 8.5 or 9 (or 1 to 1.5mm less then 10), you are ideal. If you have a bumpy track, letting the pod drop further can help. If you have a smooth track and the car needs to rotate more, you can run less. There are far more effects to discuss on pod droop, but that is the #101 class.

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Old 08-26-2015, 10:21 AM
  #1841  
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Awesome Job!

Another thing to keep in mind is when you use Jaco tires, they have more offset. So you need to widen the car to get the width back.
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Old 08-26-2015, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000 View Post
Russ, you didn't include in your write up that you won! Congrats!

One little trick I do when I build tubes: motor spray out the tube & threaded stud, then CA it in place. That way you thread your tube into the ball cup and it stays put.

Pod droop gets explained many ways. If you set your chassis on 10mm blocks and you measure at the rear pod 8.5 or 9 (or 1 to 1.5mm less then 10), you are ideal. If you have a bumpy track, letting the pod drop further can help. If you have a smooth track and the car needs to rotate more, you can run less. There are far more effects to discuss on pod droop, but that is the #101 class.

Brian
Thanks! I will try setting the pod droop better. I'm sure its more than 3-4mm now. I remember reading about putting the second o-ring that came with the kit under the shock piston. I'll try that and re-measure.


Originally Posted by dumper View Post
Awesome Job!

Another thing to keep in mind is when you use Jaco tires, they have more offset. So you need to widen the car to get the width back.
Thank you. I have not heard that before. How do I widen the car? I have two small shims behind the front tires but I don't think they even add .5mm. I don't think much more would fit and still get the wheel nut on. How do you widen the back? I did notice that all the tires fit under the body pretty good but I still made the wheel openings big enough to hopefully not get body tucks should I get hit. Luckily nobody caught up to me
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Old 08-26-2015, 02:53 PM
  #1843  
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Originally Posted by RussF View Post
Thanks! I will try setting the pod droop better. I'm sure its more than 3-4mm now. I remember reading about putting the second o-ring that came with the kit under the shock piston. I'll try that and re-measure.


Thank you. I have not heard that before. How do I widen the car? I have two small shims behind the front tires but I don't think they even add .5mm. I don't think much more would fit and still get the wheel nut on. How do you widen the back? I did notice that all the tires fit under the body pretty good but I still made the wheel openings big enough to hopefully not get body tucks should I get hit. Luckily nobody caught up to me
You will notice that in the center of the rear pod plate there is a tiny hole. This is used to measure distance to each tire From the center line (I normally measure to the inside of each tire from this hole with a digital caliper). These measurements are super crucial and I can't tell you how many times I see this off on racers cars. This will tell you if the tires are evenly spaced from the center line on the car. Once you have that perfect(by adding axle shims to the side that is short). You can now start to widen the car in even increments with the same rear axle shims you used to space the wheels. Typically you will widen the car to between 171 mm and 172 mm. This will get you to maximum legal width which is where you will normally keep it. Hope this makes sense....
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Old 08-26-2015, 03:19 PM
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Ya the balance hole right? I used it and the front one to balance the car as best I could. That's why the transponder and wire bundle are pushed off to the left. Do you know what shims I need for the axle? Is there a CRC part number? Is it the 4732 1/4" shims?

I'll measure it tonight as I remove the aluminum ride height shims from the front end plate and install the ride height adjusters. I read somewhere that the 2 degree roll center adjuster is good to add also so I bought one.
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Old 08-26-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by RussF View Post
Ya the balance hole right? I used it and the front one to balance the car as best I could. That's why the transponder and wire bundle are pushed off to the left. Do you know what shims I need for the axle? Is there a CRC part number? Is it the 4732 1/4" shims?

I'll measure it tonight as I remove the aluminum ride height shims from the front end plate and install the ride height adjusters. I read somewhere that the 2 degree roll center adjuster is good to add also so I bought one.
Yep. That's the shim set. The roll centers are a good option part to have on hand for sure. I seem to only use them on high bite though but they are a must to have when you get in that setting IMO.

Here's a tuning guide that I forward to guys that helps out a lot with different situations if you travel from track to track. Hope it helps.

1/12 scale Setup Guide

Car is Loose or Oversteers
Install Wing to Rear of Car
Slide Wing Toward Rear of Car
Increase Wing Angle
Softer Side Shock Springs
Stiffer Front Springs
Softer Center Shock Spring
Decrease Center Shock Spring Tension
Try Harder Front Compound Tire
Try Softer Rear Compound Tire
Move Battery to Center of Car
Raise Front Ride Height
Lower Rear Ride Height
Increase Castor

Car Pushes or Understeers
Slide Wing Toward Front of Car
Decrease Wing Angle
Stiffer Side Shock Springs
Softer Front Springs
Stiffer Center Shock Spring
Decrease Center Shock Spring Tension
Try Softer Front Compound Tire
Try Harder Rear Compound Tire
Move Battery Toward Left Side
Lower Front Ride Height
Raise Rear Ride Height
Decrease Castor

Car is Erratic:
Bent Front Suspension Pin: Remove spring and check for free movement
Chunked Tire: Check side wall to see if rubber is still glued to wheel.
Bent Axle: Tire “wobbles” while spinning.
Loose Screws: Especially Chassis Screws, add Blue Loctite to prevent.
Bound Ball Joint: Steering link and shocks should spin free on balls.
Shocks: Either Bound Up, Bent Shaft, or Out of Oil.
Bearings: Broken or completely seized.
Foreign Objects: Unlucky Dirt/Stones preventing suspension movement especially in front pivot balls.
Bottoming Out: Look on bottom side of chassis for buffed or scratched areas.
Tire Rub: Look on inside of body for extreme black marks from tires.
Radio Problem: Bad Servo, Weak Servo Saver Spring, Transmitter Pot blown.






Front –

Front Toe: Front edge of car tires point toward the chassis as viewed from above the car.
Toe IN - Settles and makes steering reaction less aggressive especially on acceleration. Easier set-up to drive and works well on bumpy tracks.
Toe OUT - Increases aggressiveness of car especially on entry to the turn. Works well on smooth, high bite tracks where rear traction is not a problem. Generally the preferred set-up for pan car racing.
Front Track Width:
Wider - Decrease front grip, give slower steering response & increase understeer. Narrower - Increase front grip, give faster steering response & decrease understeer. More aggressive steering.

Front Spring:
Softer – Aid on rough surface. Will help the car get into corner quicker & feel like more overall steering.
Stiffer – Make the car easier to drive & be smoother in the corners. As traction increases, increase the front spring rate to maintain the same car feel.

Front Droop:
Increase - More traction and over all steering.
Decrease/Remove - Reduce traction rolling & stability the car when it is twitchy. (high traction track)

Front Upper Arm:
Shorter upper arm provide more camber change during compression. Increase front roll-centre. A more parallel upper arm will yield a lower roll center. A more angled arm is a higher roll center. raise roll center if traction is low, lower it if traction is high (ie. traction rolling, "tripping" over the front, etc).
Shorter arm - More reaction/intial cut
Longer arm - More overall steering, not as reactive.
Parallel arm - Reduce traction roll, take some side bite out
Angled arm - Increase side bite, camber gain

Bump Steer: Bump toe-in will cause oversteer during mid-corner. Advise to have none or slight bump toe-out instead.

Front Roll Center: use 1mm carbon fiber shim to lift the front suspension, help to put power down on corner exit. Increase front roll center- decrease front grip

Castor: Angle of the kingpin in relation to a vertical plane as viewed from the side of the car.
Increase the angle - Make the car more stable out of the turn as well as down the straights and increase steering entering a turn.
Decreasing the angle - Make the car feel more “touchy” at high speeds and help steering while exiting the turn. Less Castor – More front grip, more steering.
Lower Castor Angle – Better on slippery, inconsistent & rough surface.
Higher Castor Angle – Better on smooth, high traction track.


Reactive Castor – Amount of castor change when the front end of the car is compressing (diving) or decompressing (rising).
Increase the angle – Make the car react quicker & offer more steering.
Decrease the angle – make the car easier to drive smoothly into corners.

Camber Gain: Angle of the Upper Suspension Arm relative to the ground, so that when the suspension travels, the amount of camber for that tire will increase. This will help change the “feel” of the car thru the turns. With the arm parallel to the ground the front suspension will have the least amount of camber gain. Lowering the Upper Suspension Arm on the Upper Suspension Mount will increase the amount of camber gained when the suspension travels.

ACKERMAN: Running the servo flat will reduce ackerman and also add a slight bit of bump toe in. This will make the car more smooth on corner entry and not so darty and will have a smooth overall feel though the corner. On asphalt this setup tends to give the car a pushy feel. Increase ackerman and eliminate the bump toe all together help to get the car to enter the corner when bite is lower and you need to set the front end in the corner. Tie rods straight across seems to provide more ackerman (the inside wheel turns more than the outside wheel) Ti rods angled forward (the attachment at the servo forward of the attachments at the steering blocks) reduces ackerman. Varying the ackerman changes the feel of the steering. More ackerman gives more steering, up to a point. Height of the tie rods or actually the height difference between the attachment at the servo and at the steering block affects bump steer. Higher at the servo than at the steering block will give bump in (the front wheels will toe-in on compression of the front suspension) which can make the steering overly aggressive and unpredictable, having the tie rods higher at the steering blocks will result in bump out, which makes the car easier to drive, but possibly a bit slower due to less steering.
More Ackerman – More steering into the corner, less corner speed, less stable in the chicanes.
Less Ackerman – Less steering into the corner, more corner speed, more stable in the chicanes.

AE Front End: Running servo flat to chassis produce more steering.

CRC Front End: Need to run servo angled. Running servo flat will product “push”.

Rear -

Shock Angle (Center Shock):
Lower position - Will increase the stiffness of the spring and generally works best on smooth high bite tracks. Less on-power steering.
Upper position - (shock parallel to the ground) will make the spring feel softer and works best on low grip surfaces and bumpy tracks as well. More on-power steering, up to a point.
Centre Shock Length: The lesser the shock extend & unload to the rear, the move on-power steering.
Longer – Increase rear traction.
Shorter – Decrease rear traction.


Center Shock Damping: Partially control weight transfer of the car front-to-back & also control the car over bumps on the track.
Lighter – Let the car enter a corner abit harder & absorb a bumpy track, but the trade off is slightly less drive coming out of corner & abit wandering. (Balance to rear (more rear traction).
Heavier – Let the car be smoother entering a corner but it will feel abit twitchy over bumps. The car will have more drive coming out of the corner. Balance to front (more front traction/steering)

Center Shock Spring:
Softer – Allows more weight to be transferred to the rear of the car, resulting in better rough track handling over bumps but will reduce the drive of the car coming out of the corners. More rear traction, much off-power steering, little on-power steering.
Stiffer – Results in better forward drive but sacrifices handling over bumps. Less rear traction, much on-power mid-out corners. Little off-power steering.

Side Damping:
Thinner - helps to increase rear traction & allows the car to transition faster and turn-in a little better. Decrease front traction, decrease steering.
Stiffer – Increase front traction, increase steering. Slows transition & soften steering in fast sweeper. If car is double steering on power use, thicker oil to slow reaction time but if go too far, inside rear tires will lift in tight corners.

Side-to-Side Stiffness: Insert o-ring between the T-bar pivots to adjust. Further back towards motor will increase the stiffness.

Side Spring:
Softer – More side bite for rear end but will be lazier transitioning back & center.
Stiffer – Less side bite. Faster transition but feel edgy.

Tweak Screw: Touch chassis for high traction. Clearance of 1mm or more for low traction asphalt.

Rear Droop: 0.5mm-1.0mm for med-high traction. 1.0mm-2.0mm for low traction.
Lengthening the shock slightly for more droop helps the car turn in more aggressively and is nicer on bumpy surfaces.
Increase – Makes car turn in harder. More hi-speed steering. Handle bumpy track better.
Decrease – Car smoother into corners.

Pod Damping:
Thinner – Allow the car to dive harder but it will also be more unpredictable.
Thicker – Allow the car to stay abit flatter & be easier to drive. If too heavy, the car will wander & feel loose.

Pod Length: Increasing the pod length (distance from axle to t-bar tweak screw) makes the center shock and t-plate effectively a lot softer and best for severely bumpy conditions and flat tracks.
Longer – Easier to drive & smoother but less responsive to driver input.
Shorter – More responsive to driver input.

T-Bar Shim:
Increase – Add anti-squat. More initial steering on entry & plant rear mid corner & exit (push).

Ride Height: Check by pushing the chassis down once or twice to simulate bumps on the track. Generally a safe place to start is with all corners of the car with even ride height under the chassis. Since these cars sit so close to the ground even 1/16" difference is drastic.
Front end higher than the rear - Make the car increase rear traction especially out of the turn.
Front end lower than the rear end - Make the car increase front traction especially entering the turn.
Decrease ride Height – Increase overall grip & steering response. Better on smooth track
Increase Ride Height – Increase Chassis roll & is better on bumpy & asphalt track.

Wheelbase: Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear axles.
Forward position - Make the car more stable on long fast tracks with flowing turns or tracks with low bite compared to the power used.
Rear most position - Make the car more suitable for short tracks where you are constantly turning.

tire split is pretty useful for tuning steering characteristics.
Larger split - more rear grip, less turn in.
Closer split - more turn in, free rear end.
2 - 3mm of split should be a pretty common number.

Rear track Width:
Wider – Increase the stability of the car, increase rear grip at corner entry & middle corner & decrease corner speed.
Narrower – Increase rear grip at corner exit, increase corner speed & increase car responsiveness.

Battery Position:
Forward – Increase the stability of the car, less overall steering & more rear traction. Less weight transfer into corners.
Rearward – Increase overall steering & corner speed but make more rotation off-power. Car can feel darty off-power.
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