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Team CRC Xti 1/12th Scale!!

Old 08-22-2014, 07:30 AM
  #1486  
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Originally Posted by andrewdoherty View Post
I was looking to buy some of the xenon gears from their site, but i wasn't certain I had the right ones. Would you mind linking to the exact ones you're using with 16 1/8" balls?
VSS DD gear

http://xenon.ocnk.net/product/408?
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:33 PM
  #1487  
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the xenon spurs are very nice, i also love how the center bearings need the be firmly pressed on. where i find you dont really get this with other brands, bearing just slide straight through the middle
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:51 PM
  #1488  
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Thanks bro.
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:19 PM
  #1489  
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What do you guys run for front springs? My car seems to steer really hard with anything less than .55mm.
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:08 AM
  #1490  
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I would suggest .50 fronts with about .5mm-1mm front droop. What does the whole setup look like?
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dumper View Post
I have a feeling your shaft is undersized

Please take your shock off of your car, take off the ball end, and measure the threads with a set of digital calipers.

Brian Wynn

Team CRC
Ahh Brian... Mr. Funny Man

The shock shaft is .078, the threaded portion of the shaft is .073. Does that sound correct?

John
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:25 PM
  #1492  
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Originally Posted by WIITA View Post
I would suggest .50 fronts with about .5mm-1mm front droop. What does the whole setup look like?
Once again Robin, to The Wall of Text!

Sorry to not mention this earlier but the car in question is actually an XI, but the setup on my XTI is nearly the same and seems to have the same general feel. I guess what Im trying to find out is why it seems like I have to run a much harder front tire and spring along with less steering throw than other 1/12 drivers to get a decent handle on the car. Other drivers have driven my car and described it as lazy at any speed other than full blast race-speed because it runs so little steering throw. The car only steers well when it starts to get some weight transfer from the high cornering forces of racing. The car is very fast, but being having such a hard front spring, hard front tires, and wide turning circle is different from other fast setups.

CHASSIS LAYOUT: Transverse pack mounted as far back in the chassis as it will go, stand-up servo using CRC mounts, run big gears on the motor/axle to get the motor forward in the pod and have the weight act less unsprung.

I have been running one of two different setups depending on the grip, low-to-medium grip runs like this:

Medium Grip REAR:
CRC red main spring, 35wt oil, approx 1mm of spacers under the top plate ball cup, 3mm of droop.
30k damper fluid, CRC white side spring

The high-grip setup is a lot softer in the rear to prevent the inside rear tire from lifting and making the car diff-out in some corners:

High Grip REAR:
AE Silver soft spring (9lb/inch) 30 wt oil, 2mm of droop
50k damper fluid, CRC blue side spring

There is a little playing with this setup depending on the grip but these are the two extremes. When the tack comes in and the car starts hiking the inside rear in hairpins, I run smaller tires and soften the rear end of the car until it stops. The good news is that no amount of softening of the car seems to make the chassis drag. On the front I don't change it much because all that does is seem to make things worse:

FRONT:
Long arm front end, 10 degree reactive caster blocks, 1 shim front and 3 shims rear so the top arm is slightly back on the block and gives a bit more static caster, just a hair of droop (~.25mm). I have experimented with changing the reactive caster but the car loses its low-speed rotation and becomes hard to control in high-speed corners, the transition between high-speed push and low-speed rotation has always been a good part of this car, allowing me to really hit apexes and adjust the attitude of the car in corners with the throttle.

RIDE HEIGHT:
I try to keep the ride height at 3.5mm or so all-around and set the camber so the tires wear flat. On the front damper tubes I either put just a dab of 1000 wt fluid or a drop of motor oil. Heavy front fluid makes the car really twitchy on turn-in.

STEERING THROW:
When doing a few practice laps I set the steering throw up or down a few ticks until the car has just enough steering to keep it from oversteering and scrubbing too much speed in the corner. The biggest difference in .50s and .55s is that when running the .50's the max steering throw I can run is about 41% of max for a steering circle of about 6 feet or more and the max with the .55's is about 46-47% or a turning circle of 5 feet. With the .50's the car seems to pivot right on the nose, the .55's make the car rotate closer to the rear and have less oversteer. The .55's make the car easier to drive and be a little more forgiving to being driven hard, but the car turns similar laps either way. When I can really get the back end 'locked down' with rear tires that match the conditions really well and the car feels like it's on rails, the .50's can run a bit more steering throw, maybe 44%, and are probably the faster set.

TIRES:
For tires the car demands a HARD front, I have run CRC black, CRC purple, Ulti X or Y Hard, and I typically 3/4 or full sauce the fronts. I have tried running a softer front tire like magentas, chromes, or Ulti Med and less sauce but it causes the car to be somewhat inconsistent run-to-run and tire set to set, especially when re-using front tires run after run. Rear tire choices are more flexible, with Yellows, Ulti X-soft, Pinks, and Magentas all being reasonable choices on a track with a decent groove. Rears are always full sauce.

DRIVING STYLE:
I drive the car with a lot of lock-to-lock steering and adjust the cars turn-in with the throttle. I guess this way of driving means the car needs a really seamless transition between high-speed and low-speed cornering to be fast.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:45 PM
  #1493  
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Ok. The xi is an amazing car and you should have no issues once you change a few things. Here's what I ran everywhere with the car including low grip club tracks all the way up to the birds and iic. Give it a try and I'm sure you will like it. This is for stock and ss racing

Front:
Chrome cut to 41mm. 1/2 sauce max
.50 spring with .5mm droop
-1* camber
.5mm toe out
5* blocks. This is one issue I see with the current setup IMO
2 shims back
3.5mm ride height


Rear:
Yellow or Graylow cut to 42mm
White center spring
Front and rear Pod level when at ride height
3.5mm ride height
1mm droop
20k in the tubes- this is the other issue I see. 50k is going to give you god awful cut in IMO. 20k will roll nicely.
.50 or white side springs just touching and tweaked on tweak station with out the tubes on.
R8c body
Keep everything else box stock and you should be good

Couple other things to check.

Take the front eclip off your king pin and pull off spring. Push kingpin up and pull you finger away. Your kingpin should drop under its own weight when the servo is in the straight position and with the wheels turned. This is a problem I see a lot. Any binding and you will have a hell of a time on the track.

Reset the center pivot to make sure there is no kinks. Reset the rear pod and you should be good to go.

Keep us posted



Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Once again Robin, to The Wall of Text!

Sorry to not mention this earlier but the car in question is actually an XI, but the setup on my XTI is nearly the same and seems to have the same general feel. I guess what Im trying to find out is why it seems like I have to run a much harder front tire and spring along with less steering throw than other 1/12 drivers to get a decent handle on the car. Other drivers have driven my car and described it as lazy at any speed other than full blast race-speed because it runs so little steering throw. The car only steers well when it starts to get some weight transfer from the high cornering forces of racing. The car is very fast, but being having such a hard front spring, hard front tires, and wide turning circle is different from other fast setups.

CHASSIS LAYOUT: Transverse pack mounted as far back in the chassis as it will go, stand-up servo using CRC mounts, run big gears on the motor/axle to get the motor forward in the pod and have the weight act less unsprung.

I have been running one of two different setups depending on the grip, low-to-medium grip runs like this:

Medium Grip REAR:
CRC red main spring, 35wt oil, approx 1mm of spacers under the top plate ball cup, 3mm of droop.
30k damper fluid, CRC white side spring

The high-grip setup is a lot softer in the rear to prevent the inside rear tire from lifting and making the car diff-out in some corners:

High Grip REAR:
AE Silver soft spring (9lb/inch) 30 wt oil, 2mm of droop
50k damper fluid, CRC blue side spring

There is a little playing with this setup depending on the grip but these are the two extremes. When the tack comes in and the car starts hiking the inside rear in hairpins, I run smaller tires and soften the rear end of the car until it stops. The good news is that no amount of softening of the car seems to make the chassis drag. On the front I don't change it much because all that does is seem to make things worse:

FRONT:
Long arm front end, 10 degree reactive caster blocks, 1 shim front and 3 shims rear so the top arm is slightly back on the block and gives a bit more static caster, just a hair of droop (~.25mm). I have experimented with changing the reactive caster but the car loses its low-speed rotation and becomes hard to control in high-speed corners, the transition between high-speed push and low-speed rotation has always been a good part of this car, allowing me to really hit apexes and adjust the attitude of the car in corners with the throttle.

RIDE HEIGHT:
I try to keep the ride height at 3.5mm or so all-around and set the camber so the tires wear flat. On the front damper tubes I either put just a dab of 1000 wt fluid or a drop of motor oil. Heavy front fluid makes the car really twitchy on turn-in.

STEERING THROW:
When doing a few practice laps I set the steering throw up or down a few ticks until the car has just enough steering to keep it from oversteering and scrubbing too much speed in the corner. The biggest difference in .50s and .55s is that when running the .50's the max steering throw I can run is about 41% of max for a steering circle of about 6 feet or more and the max with the .55's is about 46-47% or a turning circle of 5 feet. With the .50's the car seems to pivot right on the nose, the .55's make the car rotate closer to the rear and have less oversteer. The .55's make the car easier to drive and be a little more forgiving to being driven hard, but the car turns similar laps either way. When I can really get the back end 'locked down' with rear tires that match the conditions really well and the car feels like it's on rails, the .50's can run a bit more steering throw, maybe 44%, and are probably the faster set.

TIRES:
For tires the car demands a HARD front, I have run CRC black, CRC purple, Ulti X or Y Hard, and I typically 3/4 or full sauce the fronts. I have tried running a softer front tire like magentas, chromes, or Ulti Med and less sauce but it causes the car to be somewhat inconsistent run-to-run and tire set to set, especially when re-using front tires run after run. Rear tire choices are more flexible, with Yellows, Ulti X-soft, Pinks, and Magentas all being reasonable choices on a track with a decent groove. Rears are always full sauce.

DRIVING STYLE:
I drive the car with a lot of lock-to-lock steering and adjust the cars turn-in with the throttle. I guess this way of driving means the car needs a really seamless transition between high-speed and low-speed cornering to be fast.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:19 PM
  #1494  
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Originally Posted by WIITA View Post
Ok. The xi is an amazing car and you should have no issues once you change a few things. Here's what I ran everywhere with the car including low grip club tracks all the way up to the birds and iic. Give it a try and I'm sure you will like it. This is for stock and ss racing

Front:
Chrome cut to 41mm. 1/2 sauce max
.50 spring with .5mm droop
-1* camber
.5mm toe out
5* blocks. This is one issue I see with the current setup IMO
2 shims back
3.5mm ride height


Rear:
Yellow or Graylow cut to 42mm
White center spring
Front and rear Pod level when at ride height
3.5mm ride height
1mm droop
20k in the tubes- this is the other issue I see. 50k is going to give you god awful cut in IMO. 20k will roll nicely.
.50 or white side springs just touching and tweaked on tweak station with out the tubes on.
R8c body
Keep everything else box stock and you should be good

Couple other things to check.

Take the front eclip off your king pin and pull off spring. Push kingpin up and pull you finger away. Your kingpin should drop under its own weight when the servo is in the straight position and with the wheels turned. This is a problem I see a lot. Any binding and you will have a hell of a time on the track.

Reset the center pivot to make sure there is no kinks. Reset the rear pod and you should be good to go.

Keep us posted

Concur WIITA. Nice call.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:30 AM
  #1495  
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Originally Posted by dumper View Post
I have a feeling your shaft is undersized

Please take your shock off of your car, take off the ball end, and measure the threads with a set of digital calipers.

Brian Wynn

Team CRC
Brian,

A PM was sent with the requested info, thanks.

John
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:30 PM
  #1496  
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I'm hoping someone (CypressMidWest!) can enlighten me on the dimples that come on CRC bodies like the Audi R8C. There seems to be group of three very small dimples on the CRC bodies near all four body post locations. I'm hoping they indicate body post drill spots. I've googled it, but i'm not finding much,
http://www.rctech.net/forum/10253813-post37624.html
http://www.amain.com/Calandra-Racing...th-Body/p33140

"Dimpled for EZ mounting on CRC Gen-X, Associated R5, and Corally 12th"
Does CRC have a guide somewhere to what the dimples mean? Which holes for which car?

Last edited by Codfather; 09-18-2014 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:10 AM
  #1497  
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Originally Posted by Codfather View Post
I'm hoping someone (CypressMidWest!) can enlighten me on the dimples that come on CRC bodies like the Audi R8C. There seems to be group of three very small dimples on the CRC bodies near all four body post locations. I'm hoping they indicate body post drill spots. I've googled it, but i'm not finding much,
http://www.rctech.net/forum/10253813-post37624.html
http://www.amain.com/Calandra-Racing...th-Body/p33140

"Dimpled for EZ mounting on CRC Gen-X, Associated R5, and Corally 12th"
Does CRC have a guide somewhere to what the dimples mean? Which holes for which car?

Do you actually think that CMW will know the answer and respond with great wisdom?

Last edited by davidl; 09-20-2014 at 05:11 AM. Reason: misspelling
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:44 AM
  #1498  
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Originally Posted by Codfather View Post
I'm hoping someone (CypressMidWest!) can enlighten me on the dimples that come on CRC bodies like the Audi R8C. There seems to be group of three very small dimples on the CRC bodies near all four body post locations. I'm hoping they indicate body post drill spots. I've googled it, but i'm not finding much,
http://www.rctech.net/forum/10253813-post37624.html
http://www.amain.com/Calandra-Racing...th-Body/p33140

"Dimpled for EZ mounting on CRC Gen-X, Associated R5, and Corally 12th"
Does CRC have a guide somewhere to what the dimples mean? Which holes for which car?
As a long time CRC racer, I know only that one set of dimples did indeed work perfectly for the Gen-X. Subsequent versions of chassis do not line up as well. Couldn't really speak to the R5 or Corally, as I haven't tried to mount a body on either of those cars.
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Old 09-20-2014, 07:45 AM
  #1499  
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Originally Posted by davidl View Post
Do you actually think that CMW will know the answer and respond with great wisdom?
Ouch, old people are mean.
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
Ouch, old people are mean.


What's that ya say, Sonnie? HaHaHa
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