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Old 09-02-2012, 10:22 AM   #91
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I think it would be great if ROAR could encourage the return and growth of clubs. People are way more willing to get involved if they feel they have a stake in things. Members are willing to do more than customers.

Bill.
That's not up to ROAR, that's up to the racers to get together and do the things necessary to start a club and keep it running. I think there are plenty of racers willing to help, but there aren't enough to take the leadership role.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:29 AM   #92
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Can't think of the last time I've been to a track ran by an actual club. In my area clubs have gone the way of the brushed motor. Now it's pretty much private owners catering to which ever crowd crows the loudest.

I think it would be great if ROAR could encourage the return and growth of clubs. People are way more willing to get involved if they feel they have a stake in things. Members are willing to do more than customers.

Bill.
Good point Billy D.!!!
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:57 PM   #93
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Whether the local racing is organized by a club or a private facility owner, there is still somebody at the top. Somebody who cares enough about the hobby/sport to either lead a club or put there own assets on the table for others to utilize. If ROAR offers enough value to a "club", then leadership would find it to be a no-brainer to encourage their members to support ROAR. I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine that the leadership of any particular "club" has significantly more influence on racer-X's motivation to support ROAR than any President or Regional Director that they rarely see or personally know could ever have.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:01 AM   #94
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The man I'm supporting is Steve Mruk from Region 2. Here is a natural born promoter.... Just want this group needs... Provided others do not beat him to hard...
+ 1 for Steve Mruk. Guys to all roar members you have the check this guy up, He is always here at RCtech and helping a lot of racers. Huge asset of RCtech and Roar
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:21 AM   #95
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Whether the local racing is organized by a club or a private facility owner, there is still somebody at the top. Somebody who cares enough about the hobby/sport to either lead a club or put there own assets on the table for others to utilize. If ROAR offers enough value to a "club", then leadership would find it to be a no-brainer to encourage their members to support ROAR. I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine that the leadership of any particular "club" has significantly more influence on racer-X's motivation to support ROAR than any President or Regional Director that they rarely see or personally know could ever have.
What "value" could ROAR offer to a club?

There's also a mistake that you and others here are making, in that you refer to ROAR as an entity, like there's someone or something there. The big secret is that if you were to find that door that said ROAR, opened it and went inside, what you would find is an empty room. You see, there is no ROAR without racers willing to volunteer their time and efforts to provide these things that we racers want a national organization to provide for us. If we all agree that there needs to be a ROAR, then we all must contribute to that effort to organize RC racing. And we must be willing to support ROAR,even if we disagree with the decisions made by the people in ROAR. It's okay to say "I disagree with that and we should change it." It's not okay to say "That's it, ROAR sucks, I'll never join again." That's just childish and selfish.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:51 PM   #96
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What "value" could ROAR offer to a club?

There's also a mistake that you and others here are making, in that you refer to ROAR as an entity, like there's someone or something there. The big secret is that if you were to find that door that said ROAR, opened it and went inside, what you would find is an empty room. You see, there is no ROAR without racers willing to volunteer their time and efforts to provide these things that we racers want a national organization to provide for us. If we all agree that there needs to be a ROAR, then we all must contribute to that effort to organize RC racing. And we must be willing to support ROAR,even if we disagree with the decisions made by the people in ROAR. It's okay to say "I disagree with that and we should change it." It's not okay to say "That's it, ROAR sucks, I'll never join again." That's just childish and selfish.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:15 PM   #97
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?? I was not trying to find out about a class or group, it was designed as general, for all the types...

Stock is stock, no matter what form... or am I missing something?
In the "Rate your RC Racing preference" section. You've got pretty specific breakdowns into at least groups of classes. Some people only want to run 1/12 scale and WGT, ever, and that doesn't fall under any of your choices.

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Old 09-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #98
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Having been part of excomm, working through BL introduction and LiPo. I can tell you all of it is no easy job. Every person on the board has to volunteer a ton of time. Some weeks bordering on full time job hours plus some.
in the end you hope the board is balanced well enough that the best possible rules come out and we have the most fair and equal playing field for all of our racing.
Being part of ROAR excomm is probably one of the hardest thankless jobs you can do in RC. If you are choosing to put your name in the hat to lead that board make sure you have some thick skin and level and fair ideas. Do the best you can and try to make the right choices with more then the next day in mind. Work to keep racing strong and Nationals prestigious. let ROAR shine and continue to guide us in our RC racing.
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:50 PM   #99
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What "value" could ROAR offer to a club?

There's also a mistake that you and others here are making, in that you refer to ROAR as an entity, like there's someone or something there. The big secret is that if you were to find that door that said ROAR, opened it and went inside, what you would find is an empty room. You see, there is no ROAR without racers willing to volunteer their time and efforts to provide these things that we racers want a national organization to provide for us. If we all agree that there needs to be a ROAR, then we all must contribute to that effort to organize RC racing. And we must be willing to support ROAR,even if we disagree with the decisions made by the people in ROAR. It's okay to say "I disagree with that and we should change it." It's not okay to say "That's it, ROAR sucks, I'll never join again." That's just childish and selfish.
As an outside observer it is interesting that the topic of the value of ROAR comes up. I am considering running at a carpet track\club during the winter that requires ROAR membership to race, and wondered the same thing.

I believe that the value that ROAR offers a club or track in its day to day operations is as a single source for insurance for the club and its members first and as a rules and governing body second. The rub that I believe exists is that insurance and rules are not enough of a "perceived value" for ROAR membership by clubs, tracks or individuals. Any club or track can choose to adopt ROAR rules and not be a member or member club, the rule book is freely available from the website and clubs or tracks can choose to enforce all or any subset of the rules they see fit (as they do now). That leaves insurance as the one “thing of value” that ROAR offers that requires membership.

Something to consider in this is that if insurance for the club or track and membership to run races under the ROAR insurance plan is not enough of an "incentive" or "value" for your club\track to take the time, money and\or effort it would take to become a member, then what does the current non-membership think is enough of an incentive? What would you need\like to see to be willing to go become a member? This is where I see in this thread at least that it gets light on the details but heavy on complaints.

Based on my limited knowledge I believe that the ideal ROAR President has to have the vision to be the guiding hand that does more than work with the manufactures to develop the rules and products that we use, but also provides the leadership and vision needed to create a nurturing environment for growth and opportunity for affiliate\non-affiliate clubs to see the "value" of being a affiliated club or member.

What I would like to hear from a candidate if I was voting, is their plan for the future. As an example that if elected the individual would work to increase individual membership and club membership within ROAR by 10 percent over their tenure. They would do this by working with Region Directors to identify and nominate smaller clubs that do not fit into the typical "National's" level facility to hold and promote Regional races. This would be the platform to promote ROAR as an organization, the facility and sport of R/C racing in smaller more intimate venues that are more accessible to the everyday R/C enthusiast.

I also think that ROAR could if it does not do so already reach out to the non-affiliated clubs via their Region Directors and query them regarding how ROAR can add "value" to their individual programs, this is likely to be different depending on the club/track and where in the country that you are. ROAR could in turn use that information in future rules/direction considerations for the organization.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #100
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As an outsider looking into a global race organisation structure, i'm not suprised that in some ways that ROAR has a difficult handle on the situation.

Here in the UK, being in a smaller racer "loop", the BRCA seem to manage things relatively well IMO.

Sometimes give and take is needed.

Different people bring different things to the table, so thats why it's important everyones voice is heard, providing it has a "valid" point or points to it.

Question to anyone looking at being part of ROAR is, do you want to follow the "cattle", or lead the masses?

If you are a leader, explain why and try to stand for the seat.

If you want to follow, follow the "leader".

You follow or you lead, or you create your own body
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Old 09-05-2012, 02:59 PM   #101
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So what do you think ROAR needs to address in priority order, knowing that time and resources are limited. So I'm asking what topics need to be addressed with in the first year... Let's be reasonable....

Here is my list:
1. Revup back in production.

2. Regional Directors getting regional races going again.

2.1 Get a Spec Stock class defined (to be Stock) (limited it to 17.5 locked timing motor(s), No speedo with USB port, $75 limit, and limit the body to one (example for elec on-road would be say Speed 6). (Read: NO Pros. The average joe want to race average joe, no Pros). Leave Pro Stock (Personally I think this should be 17.5, 13.5 motor for one race a year is nuts) for the Pros and who wants to run with them. NO - mod is not the answer, for a number of reasons.. Personally I don't want to run mod, my equipment gets a Bobby Brown beating and I'm to old to try to control a car moving that fast. I'm very happy with Stock and based on the entries, I'm not alone in this thought.

3. Raise the ROAR membership fees, but send the member a t-shirt, stickers, nice membership card (I know this is has been done), Up to date Rule book, maybe a coupon for one free regional, super regional or national entry fee.... Bring RevUp back. I do not expect ROAR or the people to operate on a shoe string budget, you get what you pay for... Like I tell people if you pay with peanuts, you will get monkeys.... A number of people feel that 25.00 does not get them value for the 25.00, so let's give them some funds to work with....

Look a number of people are not happy with the performance of ROAR, but let's be adults and step forward and offer a helping hand....
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #102
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Here is my list:
1. Revup back in production.No reason this can't be an e-newsletter

2. Regional Directors getting regional races going again.Agreed.

2.1 Get a Spec Stock class defined (to be Stock) (limited it to 17.5 locked timing motor(s), No speedo with USB port, $75 limit, and limit the body to one (example for elec on-road would be say Speed 6). (Read: NO Pros. The average joe want to race average joe, no Pros). Leave Pro Stock (Personally I think this should be 17.5, 13.5 motor for one race a year is nuts) for the Pros and who wants to run with them. NO - mod is not the answer, for a number of reasons.. Personally I don't want to run mod, my equipment gets a Bobby Brown beating and I'm to old to try to control a car moving that fast. I'm very happy with Stock and based on the entries, I'm not alone in this thought.

You're losing me here...fixed timing is not going to work with manufacturing tolerances,etc. Motor timing is a physical limit and will only go so far regardless of motor construction. Don't try to control something you can't control across the board and with ease.

3. Raise the ROAR membership fees, but send the member a t-shirt, stickers, nice membership card (I know this is has been done), Up to date Rule book, maybe a coupon for one free regional, super regional or national entry fee.... Bring RevUp back. I do not expect ROAR or the people to operate on a shoe string budget, you get what you pay for... Like I tell people if you pay with peanuts, you will get monkeys.... A number of people feel that 25.00 does not get them value for the 25.00, so let's give them some funds to work with....

Look a number of people are not happy with the performance of ROAR, but let's be adults and step forward and offer a helping hand....
My 2 cents in Red. I don't think the membership funds themselves are the issue...the lack of members is. Give the current members something for their money and show the potential members what they'll be getting for their money and they will shell it out. The current "Product" that ROAR is selling isn't up to snuff and this is shown by the lack of members. It can be improved but will take the work of many volunteers and ROAR officials to do so....
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:28 PM   #103
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I'm actually in favor of rewriting the stock motor rules. What we run today is basically what Open Mod used to be, except with a minimum wind rule.

What I'd like to see is the stock motor be something like the stamped can SpeedPassion has, with one exception that Randy points out. Timing on the motor should be open. You're going to have manufacturing tolerances on how tight the stator is, on how strong the rotor is, and what timing is shipped with. I'd have to buy all new parts to replace rotors and stators, which is what I want to get away from. Timing on the other hand, if left open, doesn't get effected by manufacturing tolerances.

So if we've already got blinky ESC's, and want handout style motors, I'd suggest that physical motor timing be left open to eliminate one variable from manufacturing (many manufacturers are already going with infinite style sensor boards like the Ballastics for example).

The Super Stock class could take any number of forms. Open ESC 17.5, blinky 13.5, it all depends on what route is chosen. Open ESC will still exist in mod racing, so maybe you want that middle ground to include learning that aspect at a speed where the car is still in one piece if you make a mistake. Of course you could also say that might impede people moving out of the stock class as its another thing to mess with so maybe its best to make it blinky. I can see arguments either way.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:30 PM   #104
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My 2 cents in Red. I don't think the membership funds themselves are the issue...the lack of members is. Give the current members something for their money and show the potential members what they'll be getting for their money and they will shell it out. The current "Product" that ROAR is selling isn't up to snuff and this is shown by the lack of members. It can be improved but will take the work of many volunteers and ROAR officials to do so....
On the fixed timing motor(s), that is what I'm saying, the Fixed Timing motor would at XX timing, so let's say a 20 degrees. and must be approved. The rotor needs to be stamped and only that rotor SKU is allowed. Let the setup and driving skills shin. Remember I'm not in support of removing Pro Stock which is what Stock is today... Leave it open for the Pros to play.... Personally I would say sell the class in a bid to one manufacture for one year, but I'm sure that will piss off a number of manufactures... This will cause that manufacture to invest in promoting the class over the year. Look I'm not a supporter of manufactures running ROAR which is currently going on. The "Gift Basket" size has gotten out of control. Manufactures need to learn to adapt to the customer, not the customer adapting to that the manufactures have to offer. We had this same issue in Go-Karting back in the early 80s and they also most killed Go-Karting. Do you think Nascar goes to the manufactures and asks them what should the rules be next year. NOPE!!!!

Again, this is my view... not everyone will agree... I'm ok with that... What is not acceptable is the "staying the course" when the course ran aground years ago....

So what would you like to see changed to turn this around, what would put the filling in your twinkie?
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:33 PM   #105
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Do you think Nascar goes to the manufactures and asks them what should the rules be next year.
Not that I have a problem with the general sentiment, but that is exactly what has happenned. Auto makers complained to NASCAR that there wasn't enough brand identity and poof, next year a new style COT gets introduced in the Cup series.

You still have to work with manufacturers if you want to grow the hobby. Not worship them, though.
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