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Old 09-11-2012, 09:45 AM   #211
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Leave stock open to everyone would be my preference.
Now I'm completely confused.... And this will not be the first or last...

The point of this discussion is to figure how to grow entries and membership. Getting Pros out of stock seem to be a hot button with a number of people, not everyone...

How is leaving it (Stock) as is going to help? (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth) but maybe you do not see Pro's in Stock as one of the big issues. Ok if not then what do you think needs to be done to increase entries and membership, that is the core question.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:47 AM   #212
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There will always be more prestige in mod. If I won a TC class in 17.5 and Paul won a mod class. People aren't gonna be talking about me. Plus 17.5 is cool but watching those mod guys fly around the track was Amazing!

Ohhh...btw mod 12th scale at Cleveland anyone....
My thought is that if the benefit of winning in Mod is much higher than winning stock there might be a natural migration of the top drivers vs actively banning sponsored drivers from stock which IMO is completely backward and likely tough to police. JMO.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:51 AM   #213
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My thought is that if the benefit of winning in Mod is much higher than winning stock there might be a natural migration of the top drivers vs actively banning sponsored drivers from stock which IMO is completely backward and likely tough to police. JMO.
I don't think we need to ban. But It would be nice if there was a certain driver who was dominating so much every year that the best I could do is second place to have that person move up...I guess ban the winner yea.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:00 AM   #214
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My thought is that if the benefit of winning in Mod is much higher than winning stock there might be a natural migration of the top drivers vs actively banning sponsored drivers from stock which IMO is completely backward and likely tough to police. JMO.
The proposal is not to have a stock class that pros can run in... That would be Pro Stock and it as it is today.

Adding a Spec Stock class that does not allow Pro is the proposal.... National Champ would come from the following:

TC Pro Stock
TC Mod
1/12th Pro Stock (not sure if this needs a Spec Stock class)
1/12th Mod

Not Spec Stock class....
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #215
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Now I'm completely confused.... And this will not be the first or last...

The point of this discussion is to figure how to grow entries and membership. Getting Pros out of stock seem to be a hot button with a number of people, not everyone...

How is leaving it (Stock) as is going to help? (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth) but maybe you do not see Pro's in Stock as one of the big issues. Ok if not then what do you think needs to be done to increase entries and membership, that is the core question.
Don't understand why that statement is tough to understand. Maybe something in the water where you live.

All I see that removing pros from stock doing is placating a bunch of rc lifers who are sick of getting their ass kicked and have little prospect of getting to the top without some help. Im not saying this is right or wrong but it isnt where my head is. My opinion only. If making these guys happy gets ROAR back to the glory days more power to ya. I think some of the discussion of points consolidation at the national level is very exciting. Whether it boosts membership remains to be seen. I hope it does. Whether people care or not a healthy, respected ROAR is good for all of us.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #216
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Now I'm completely confused.... And this will not be the first or last...

The point of this discussion is to figure how to grow entries and membership. Getting Pros out of stock seem to be a hot button with a number of people, not everyone...

How is leaving it (Stock) as is going to help? (I'm not trying to put words in your mouth) but maybe you do not see Pro's in Stock as one of the big issues. Ok if not then what do you think needs to be done to increase entries and membership, that is the core question.




"Pro's" in stock has nothing to do with the bad attendance at the roar on road races.
You get more for your money with the other big races....iic, snowbirds......you race with more people and the competition level is higher.
So when people are deciding where to spend their money its an easy choice for most of them........go to a race and get to see/race with all the fast Americans and a lot of fast international drivers.

Sometimes its not about where or when but more so who else is going to be there that will draw the crowd.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:16 AM   #217
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But not in RC the Stock class has the most entries and most do not like the speed, and Stock is comfortable for a large number of racers...
And that's part of the issue, comfortability! Which is an issue only here in the good old USA! The natural progression should be to challenge yourself by moving up once you have become consistently competitive in stock. This is how it used to be! There are no World Championships in RC based upon stock motors!!! "Without struggle there's no progress!!!"
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #218
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And that's part of the issue, comfortability! Which is an issue only here in the good old USA! The natural progression should be to challenge yourself by moving up once you have become consistently competitive in stock. This is how it used to be! There are no World Championships in RC based upon stock motors!!! "Without struggle there's no progress!!!"
Your missing the fact that a number of us do this as a hobby. Personally I have no interest in running Mod, I would have to rebuild the car weekly, a crash is very costly and here is the number one reason for me personally, it is just to fast for my OLD ass... It is fun to watch, but 17.5 or 13.5 is all I care to handle. I want to go race, and increase my skills have fun.

Now if you do not agree, ok you have your path you have the classes that meet your requirements. Why is it so hard to allow the others to have a class that meets their requirements? No one is asking you to race it.

I know, most will say run VTA.... While I 100% agree with this structure of the class, I have no interest in the bodies, tires or that damn Driver figure.. Again I 100% agree with VTA, just like off-road, it is not for me.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:29 AM   #219
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Your missing the fact that a number of us do this as a hobby. Personally I have no interest in running Mod, I would have to rebuild the car weekly, a crash is very costly and here is the number one reason for me personally, it is just to fast for my OLD ass... It is fun to watch, but 17.5 or 13.5 is all I care to handle. I want to go race, and increase my skills have fun.

Now if you do not agree, ok you have your path you have the classes that meet your requirements. Why is it so hard to allow the others to have a class that meets their requirements? No one is asking you to race it.

I know, most will say run VTA.... While I 100% agree with this structure of the class, I have no interest in the bodies, tires or that damn Driver figure.. Again I 100% agree with VTA, just like off-road, it is not for me.
Apples and oranges, I'm only responding to your question/statement of "WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO PUSH PEOPLE UP TO MOD??????"
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:30 AM   #220
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[/SIZE]


"Pro's" in stock has nothing to do with the bad attendance at the roar on road races.
You get more for your money with the other big races....iic, snowbirds......you race with more people and the competition level is higher.
So when people are deciding where to spend their money its an easy choice for most of them........go to a race and get to see/race with all the fast Americans and a lot of fast international drivers.

Sometimes its not about where or when but more so who else is going to be there that will draw the crowd.
It will be interesting what happens with Amateur 17.5 Rubber Tire Sedan at the IIC as this will be year 2 for the class...
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:34 AM   #221
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Apples and oranges, I'm only responding to your question/statement of "WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO PUSH PEOPLE UP TO MOD??????"
Got it...

I don't think Stock is the only current issue.

Some of you have been around RC doing the 90s.... What happened? I keep hearing that the bus when off the cliff regarding stock for both oval and on-road...
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:42 AM   #222
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Mod is too fast for your average racer to handle. Probably less than 5% of the people racing onroad today can handle the speed. If you want larger Mod races, something must be done to make Mod more appealing to the masses.

Don't try the old "step up/macho" stuff because it don't work...
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:47 AM   #223
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Got it...

I don't think Stock is the only current issue.

Some of you have been around RC doing the 90s.... What happened? I keep hearing that the bus when off the cliff regarding stock for both oval and on-road...
When I started racing competitively in '94 it was all pan car so naturally tuning wasn't as involved. Naturally with TC, tuning concepts are not only a bit more challenging to grasp but all the more involved when you have to pipe them together. Adding speed to the equation makes it even more of a daunting task!
This and the fact that everything in life happens in cycles, hence why offroad is popular right now, is why I believe onroad/oval participation had dwindled.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:54 AM   #224
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Mod is too fast for your average racer to handle. Probably less than 5% of the people racing onroad today can handle the speed. If you want larger Mod races, something must be done to make Mod more appealing to the masses.

Don't try the old "step up/macho" stuff because it don't work...
I would agree with this if Mod only allowed for one Wind type but that's not the case. I believe one of root causes is people don't want to work at it. They want instant gratification! It's foolish to believe that once you set your mind to running any faster class that you can just jump in and be competitive. Start with a slower Wind and move up in speed as you become more proficient mentally and physically. It takes time and work! The process is no different from what we tell rookies.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #225
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I'm afraid I would have to disagree.

Right now my "Spec 17.5" car is just as fast as when I used to run Mod with a 9x2 and 2400s. Excessive speed is the issue with mod. The talent pool is very thin for people that can handle the speed or commitment to run the class competitively. Almost anyone could handle the speed back then and only those that could actually drive were competitive. Bottom line was "more" people were comfortable racing mod back then and the turn outs for Mod proved it. It was "THE" class back then.
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