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Old 09-10-2012, 12:55 AM   #166
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Sorta like a bigger version of the Epic Triple Crown from back in the day
Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Detroit..... all 3 always sold out. Same locations, and similar dates every year. The glory days......
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Old 09-10-2012, 02:08 AM   #167
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IMO,FWIW...

Taking the TQ and or win in "stock" in on road is sought after by many people who could run mod because the playing field is usually closer for the whole A main and once someone knows they have a good combo, no amount of skill will catch up with anyone who has skill and "the package" to take the win. The big number entry lists give it the glory.

I beat 30/40/50 racers does sound better for yourself and your sponsors for example if you're in a stock class.

20 doesn't really cut it at a "big dog" event, does it?

IDK how, but again, IMO somehow the glory needs to be focused away from "stock" classes and into mod. Mod deserves to be made more attractive to the masses but its speed is something not everyone can digest.

IDK, but would a handout mod ESC/Motor package make it an attractive class to race in, or drive people away from the class
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:39 AM   #168
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I know this would never happen, but how cool would it be if ...

Instead of creating more work for ROAR
Have them work only as sanctioning body with Races that have been successful over the years

IIC, Snowbirds, TZGP, US Indoor Champs, etc
Successful National events from the past could be renamed Winter Nats (Indoor), Summer Nats (Outdoor) Rotate host sites to those that drew over 200 entries, and know how to build a show

Each & all events carry same point system for 12th Mod & Sedan Mod only
Stock & all other classes are just wins for the event, no points chase for stock champ

Sorta like a bigger version of the Epic Triple Crown from back in the day

We could Crown a Real National Champ, as the Big Dogs go to all these races anyway, would be exciting to follow the series throughout the season

No Roar RMT fees, let the events go on as they have, most already follow Roar guidelines

Just a thought
It is a good idea but what incentive do these races have to associated with ROAR?
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:50 AM   #169
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It is a good idea but what incentive do these races have to associated with ROAR?
Yeah I know, never gonna happen

But each one of those races do use Roar rules to some extent

More or less it's really a matter of a bunch of promoters getting together for a National Points Series, in association with Roars blessing, for races that already exist, and crowning a National Champ at the end of the season
Of course participants would need to hold a Roar card, and I'll bet the ones in it to win it have been Roar members for years

Never going to please everyone, but imo the strength of Roar is in the rules, not running races
So why not stick to what they do best

Forget the 1 week race for a title
Make it a full series, it's so much more meaningful, and one bad day won't ruin it for the competitor

This is all of course an On-Road discussion, seems Off-Road is running ok
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:06 AM   #170
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This is all of course an On-Road discussion, seems Off-Road is running ok
Its the same situation in Off-Road -- look how many people went to the "Super Nationals".
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:31 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Yeah I know, never gonna happen

But each one of those races do use Roar rules to some extent

More or less it's really a matter of a bunch of promoters getting together for a National Points Series, in association with Roars blessing, for races that already exist, and crowning a National Champ at the end of the season
Here's the thing. This could all be done without ROAR's blessing, by the promoters themselves. If ROAR feels its important to be viewed as something bigger than itcurrently is, then ROAR needs to head the charge in unifying the races under their umbrella, otherwise it'll just be wider spread version of the Grandslam Series. No offense.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:53 AM   #172
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Its the same situation in Off-Road -- look how many people went to the "Super Nationals".
I honestly don't follow off-road that closely, so fair point
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Here's the thing. This could all be done without ROAR's blessing, by the promoters themselves. If ROAR feels its important to be viewed as something bigger than it currently is, then ROAR needs to head the charge in unifying the races under their umbrella, otherwise it'll just be wider spread version of the Grandslam Series. No offense.
Unified rules, and they don't need Roar, true, but to keep the legacy alive it would be great if all involved could work it out

Seems every USA race looks to Roar for esc and motor rules, so it's not like Roar isn't involved in every major On-Road event is some form
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:04 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
I honestly don't follow off-road that closely, so fair point

Unified rules, and they don't need Roar, true, but to keep the legacy alive it would be great if all involved could work it out

Seems every USA race looks to Roar for esc and motor rules, so it's not like Roar isn't involved in every major On-Road event is some form
Roar needs to stay on as a governing body but maybe that's it now then. Maybe just have clubs who want to hold big races run the show. Flip the roles. Charge 1k to have Roar Nats the club does the rest of the work the club makes the rest of the money. RMT is done in house. I mean I know that Ian, Scotty, and the others don't pay a Roar RMT to come in at IIC, Birds, US Indoor. So why not have a big meeting and figure it out. Just have ROAR be what it is a Sanctioning body if they don't want to promote races or series.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:18 AM   #174
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Yeah I know, never gonna happen
I like it and agree...

My question is not "will it happen", but "how to make it happen". We need to let go of the "old days" mentality and figure out by simply asking what would it take, to each of them... One the most important rules in negotiation is to simply ask, What do feel will work? Hint: do not assume you know what the other side is looking for. Most of the time it is not what you thing.

ROAR has turn way from this because they time or resources to put on a national series, they feel strapped under the current format (yes this has been said and is not an assumption), so this solution would serve everyone well.

On-road is a great place to try it out risk to reward is very low. Would you mess with off-road... NO.

Question, Anyone here running the Nationwide off-road series that Scotty is doing?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:38 AM   #175
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WOW, you boys have quite a discussion going over here.

My two cents would be to reduce the overall number of days that you need to be at the track if you want more people to show up. I know you didn't really NEED to be at the track for the paved nationals on Wednesday but it sure felt like you did when you read about it on the flyer or in forums. I live 15 minutes from Leisure Hours and race there several times a month, both offroad and onroad, and I never once considered coming to Nationals because of the time investment needed. Ken H. who also races TC at Leisure Hours lives right here as well and had the same thoughts about it as I do. We've both been racing for 20+ years and have been to some big races in the past when we could justify taking a day off work for it, but never would consider it if we had to take a week off.

Yes, it's a big race and it needs to be spread over multiple days but when you put the impression out that it's Wednesday through Sunday it's just too long for your average Joe to invest in it. If your a racer in Cali, Fla or AZ and had to commute here for the race it's nearly a week adventure rather than a long weekend.
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:44 AM   #176
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IDK, but would a handout mod ESC/Motor package make it an attractive class to race in, or drive people away from the class

Not to me. I'm midpack TC mod locally and if it were a handout ESC/motor class I would be turned off. Mod is unrestricted, fast, and the best alternative to restrictive classed in electric onroad. No need to change that for the racers or the manufacturers.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:22 PM   #177
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WOW, you boys have quite a discussion going over here.

My two cents would be to reduce the overall number of days that you need to be at the track if you want more people to show up. I know you didn't really NEED to be at the track for the paved nationals on Wednesday but it sure felt like you did when you read about it on the flyer or in forums. I live 15 minutes from Leisure Hours and race there several times a month, both offroad and onroad, and I never once considered coming to Nationals because of the time investment needed. Ken H. who also races TC at Leisure Hours lives right here as well and had the same thoughts about it as I do. We've both been racing for 20+ years and have been to some big races in the past when we could justify taking a day off work for it, but never would consider it if we had to take a week off.

Yes, it's a big race and it needs to be spread over multiple days but when you put the impression out that it's Wednesday through Sunday it's just too long for your average Joe to invest in it. If your a racer in Cali, Fla or AZ and had to commute here for the race it's nearly a week adventure rather than a long weekend.
I always try to support the BIG local events, even if there are aspects that don't fit my ideal criteria

That track you guys have would have been amazing, even for just One 8m 12th mod main
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:16 PM   #178
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Stock is not Spec.
Should not be -- never was intended to be so.
Even more so with the slowing of the classes.

For those that want spec classes they are available.
VTA and USGT or the like are continuing to grow in popularity. Some for just a second class but gaining acceptance as legit classes because of the close racing they are generating as they evolve.

Leave STOCK alone to be the step up class from those slower SPEC classes.

Get ROAR to implement the Driver points /rating system that they should be required to provide as their "service " to drivers.

If you want to have a national series that includes non ROAR events
ROAR has to step up and do like the PGA.

No need for a handicap system just points for finish in any class.
As only attendees can get points it is a level field for all.

Now ROAR can add the finish points from non ROAR events to their event finishes and you have something.

It generates the necessity to be a ROAR member.
It helps to generate interest in ROAR's lower attendance numbers events.
It gives some of the SPEC classes some legitimization and stops the incessant whining about turning the only class left besides mod into a freakin turtle watching class.

Again, STOCK is not SPEC.
STOP imagining that in a perfect world everyone gets points for trying and everyone is a winner and here have a flower --BS.

Racing is about competition and ergo winning!

Well in most cases aspiring to ---- move up!

So all these pages and because of distraction we still have no idea who to nominate or who is interested.-- Wonder why-- Thankless task.


Make ROAR important---require them to implement a driver points system.

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Old 09-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #179
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Stock is not Spec.
Should not be -- never was intended to be so.
Even more so with the slowing of the classes.

For those that want spec classes they are available.
VTA and USGT or the like are continuing to grow in popularity. Some for just a second class but gaining acceptance as legit classes because of the close racing they are generating as they evolve.

Leave STOCK alone to be the step up class from those slower SPEC classes.

Get ROAR to implement the Driver points /rating system that they should be required to provide as their "service " to drivers.

If you want to have a national series that includes non ROAR events
ROAR has to step up and do like the PGA.

No need for a handicap system just points for finish in any class.
As only attendees can get points it is a level field for all.

Now ROAR can add the finish points from non ROAR events to their event finishes and you have something.

It generates the necessity to be a ROAR member.
It helps to generate interest in ROAR's lower attendance numbers events.
It gives some of the SPEC classes some legitimization and stops the incessant whining about turning the only class left besides mod into a freakin turtle watching class.

Again, STOCK is not SPEC.
STOP imagining that in a perfect world everyone gets points for trying and everyone is a winner and here have a flower --BS.

Racing is about competition and ergo winning!

Well in most cases aspiring to ---- move up!

So all these pages and because of distraction we still have no idea who to nominate or who is interested.-- Wonder why-- Thankless task.


Make ROAR important---require them to implement a driver points system.

Later,
Darrald
I agree its a thank less job. I just was hoping someone would have some input who was a ROAR member who wants to be elected. I'm starting to see that you don't even want to speak up cause you don't want that duty.

Yeah I was told by an RMT at the end of the day I'm an a-hole. If I tell you to sit due to battery voltage, your car is overweight, I put you in the box, I don't put you in the box. Its a lose lose thing for the most part.

I'm not trying to put anyone or anything down. I would like to see ROAR more relevant in some way. I would love to see the big race series etc. I understand how this can be a put down and be looked down upon. So under any circumstances to any one in ROAR if I have offended you I don't mean that. If you are saying its easier said that done to my sugguestions and the masses please chime in and tell us how we can help to get ROAR stronger to supply races and clubs across the USA.
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:18 PM   #180
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Trust me, the people that are interested are looking here for what are the hot points, what is possible. They are not ready to jump in at this point, because they are looking for what are the top, possible, doable points that need to be hit.

Thus the reason I asked for ideas of what needs to be done within 12 months that is achievable.

So they get a list of possible actions, then share how or what they can do to achieve. Just like the current election, the two of them have a different agenda, it is up to you to select the one that best fits your views. Not everyone is going to agree on every point....

Not from here alone, what is very clear is people want;
- Pro drivers out of stock (around 75 to 1 want this) How could be a very lively conversion, but the end result is the same. Maybe rather then creating something use what is currently working and build on it if needed. (Hint: IIC Amateur class) (Personally I think to control the no logo shirts on the driver stand for this class, the drivers have to Topless.... )
- National series (100 to 1 want this and to include non-roar events at part of it)
- More value out ROAR membership, not just insurance, and they are willing to pay more for it (most everyone wants this).

On-road is a low risk to reward place to work on it.... Off-road is working today, so leave it...
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