Touring Car Pricesr
03-02-2005, 08:33 PM
#31
Originally posted by TreyDog
I agree scoobydo. I don't think it will die out completely but the class will get much smaller mostly because people will get sick of the costs.
I agree scoobydo. I don't think it will die out completely but the class will get much smaller mostly because people will get sick of the costs.
03-02-2005, 08:39 PM
#32
It breaks down like this:
IFMAR / ROAR needs to pull their heads out of their asses in order to save Touring.
Suggestion #1: We are still running 5 min Mains for Touring. WHY?!?! Oh yeah...so we can use what is supposed to be runtime and burn it up in a 7-Turn motor. So we can change brushes every 4 runs to be competitive, so we can true our comms twice a day.
Stupid, stupid STUPID! There is no reason Touring can't run an 8-Min main like 1/12th. The speeds would still be plenty fast, however we would be running 10 / 11 turn motors and gearing a bit more conservatively. The longer races would actually USE our battery technology for it's intended purpose and the races would be more exciting.
Suggestion #2: Get rid of the old 4-Door body rule. Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean. The class is no longer visually exciting and different.
Suggestion #3: Get rid of Stock motors. Restructure the Touring Class like other GT series and create GT1 and GT2 classes. GT1 would be unlimited Modified and GT2 would be 19-Turn motors. All the while of course remembering that you need to make your car last 8 mins.
I confidently feel that if the rules were changed according to my suggestions, Touring and ALL electric On-Road racing would be more fun and exciting, along with a bit easier on the wallet. Because in the end, it is NOT about factory drivers...it's about YOU.
IFMAR / ROAR needs to pull their heads out of their asses in order to save Touring.
Suggestion #1: We are still running 5 min Mains for Touring. WHY?!?! Oh yeah...so we can use what is supposed to be runtime and burn it up in a 7-Turn motor. So we can change brushes every 4 runs to be competitive, so we can true our comms twice a day.
Stupid, stupid STUPID! There is no reason Touring can't run an 8-Min main like 1/12th. The speeds would still be plenty fast, however we would be running 10 / 11 turn motors and gearing a bit more conservatively. The longer races would actually USE our battery technology for it's intended purpose and the races would be more exciting.
Suggestion #2: Get rid of the old 4-Door body rule. Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean. The class is no longer visually exciting and different.
Suggestion #3: Get rid of Stock motors. Restructure the Touring Class like other GT series and create GT1 and GT2 classes. GT1 would be unlimited Modified and GT2 would be 19-Turn motors. All the while of course remembering that you need to make your car last 8 mins.
I confidently feel that if the rules were changed according to my suggestions, Touring and ALL electric On-Road racing would be more fun and exciting, along with a bit easier on the wallet. Because in the end, it is NOT about factory drivers...it's about YOU.
03-02-2005, 08:42 PM
#33
It's funny you should mention that....Why eliminate Stock motors?? too slow for you?
At our track (and many others) a skilled driver with a properly tuned stock motor will be able to keep up with modified cars (on a tight technical track)...
At our club Stock touring with Foam on Ozite is by far the most popular class....
At our track (and many others) a skilled driver with a properly tuned stock motor will be able to keep up with modified cars (on a tight technical track)...
At our club Stock touring with Foam on Ozite is by far the most popular class....
03-02-2005, 08:45 PM
#34
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
It's funny you should mention that....Why eliminate Stock motors?? too slow for you?
At our track (and many others) a skilled driver with a properly tuned stock motor will be able to keep up with modified cars (on a tight technical track)...
At our club Stock touring with Foam on Ozite is by far the most popular class....
It's funny you should mention that....Why eliminate Stock motors?? too slow for you?
At our track (and many others) a skilled driver with a properly tuned stock motor will be able to keep up with modified cars (on a tight technical track)...
At our club Stock touring with Foam on Ozite is by far the most popular class....
Gearing my man...gearing.
Really though, what do some of you think about my suggestions?
03-02-2005, 08:45 PM
#35
Originally posted by Soviet
It breaks down like this:
IFMAR / ROAR needs to pull their heads out of their asses in order to save Touring.
Suggestion #2: Get rid of the old 4-Door body rule. Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean. The class is no longer visually exciting and different.
It breaks down like this:
IFMAR / ROAR needs to pull their heads out of their asses in order to save Touring.
Suggestion #2: Get rid of the old 4-Door body rule. Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean. The class is no longer visually exciting and different.
The only time you have different bodies is for street racing when you are just trying to have a cool looking street car. However, those bodies would be no good for racing.
However, I agree with the 8min main suggestion.
03-02-2005, 08:48 PM
#36
Originally posted by Soviet
Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean.
Everyone is running the latest version of squashed jellybean.
Man, you said it!
But we also have to be honest with our selves. A lot of racers are sheep. Once someone wins a big race with some Mercedes GTP or NSX body, then at the next race, every driver will have one slammed down on thier car.
Its just the way it is now. Performance over fun...
03-02-2005, 08:51 PM
#37
soviet
suggestion one I agree with.
suggestion two is tough. even if the rule is changed, people will still run the body that is the fastest/handles the best.
not sure about the stock motor thing. do you think they would be too slow in an eight minute race?
suggestion one I agree with.
suggestion two is tough. even if the rule is changed, people will still run the body that is the fastest/handles the best.
not sure about the stock motor thing. do you think they would be too slow in an eight minute race?
03-02-2005, 09:11 PM
#40
Also..my point about the bodies. Touring bodies are NOT the best shape for RC onroad. A wide high downforce body is the optimal choice. Only because of the current rules are we forced to run 4-door sedan bodies.
Lola or GT/Lemans type-bodies would be far more effective and efficient when compared to a sedan body.
Lola or GT/Lemans type-bodies would be far more effective and efficient when compared to a sedan body.
03-02-2005, 09:14 PM
#41
agreed soviet, I thought your point was more about wanting to see a variety of bodies running on the track with each other. It gets boring for me to see 10 alfas out there in a heat.
03-02-2005, 09:15 PM
#42
just a quick question wneh was 1/10th a major rc thing. An when did it get to be th most popular thing to on-raod racing.
03-02-2005, 09:18 PM
#43
Originally posted by TreyDog
agreed soviet, I thought your point was more about wanting to see a variety of bodies running on the track with each other. It gets boring for me to see 10 alfas out there in a heat.
agreed soviet, I thought your point was more about wanting to see a variety of bodies running on the track with each other. It gets boring for me to see 10 alfas out there in a heat.
03-02-2005, 09:20 PM
#44
Hi Guys,
Wow, this thread have certainly exploded since I read it earlier this morning. Very good points expressed by a lot of you (and very valid ones as well ) lets all try to keep the posts as professional as possible and try not "flame" or get into which manufacture is better than which...etc. so we can keep this thread going. The goal is to hopefully catch the attention of the manufacture executives that visits R/C Tech (and many of them do) to see the opinions of the racers on this subject
Personally, the price issue is something we deal with individual manufactures almost everyday. We always try to strive for a lower price because that's what will keep this hobby growing and more people involved inhopes that one day it become more visible as a mainstream hobby. However, we run into resistence very often and honestly, we get in trouble for trying to sell car kits too cheap (as strange as it sounds
) Which is the reason why most of the pre-order kits at the moment on our website have the manufacture suggested price listed and I have to trouble you guys to send me an email for the discount price. Unfortunately for us to continue to stay in business, and have good access to new released products, we have to play by the rules of the game of this industry and walk carefully in the political issues involved (yes, huge amounts of politic exist in this industry as well, when there is money involved, there will always be politics ) Personally I am concerned about the social responsibility (big word, I know... ) that these manufacture have towards the overall good of the hobby. When I started out racing touring car back in 1995-96, there is usually a healthy 2-3 heats of novice sedan, 2-3 heats of sportsman, 1 heat of exper stock, and so on...the key here is the amount of novice folks. Fast forward to today, I usually see one full heat of novice (if we're lucky) on any given raceday, sometimes none at all. That should be alarming for all manufactures, however, I see very few initiatives to promote new blood to the hobby. For instance, the Tamiya TCS series is a positive example that provides a good structured stepping stone system for guys to start out first in their TL01 spec class, then GT-3, GT-2, and then the big guns in GT-1 as their skills progress.
Not sure what got into me today...sorry for the long post folks, I think I should go easy on the caffine after 12 noon. However, just a kind reminder, lets keep all the post professional and constructive. maybe something positive will come out of these discussions
Steve Wang
p.s. just to reflect on something soviet posted, Sportsman racers in Japan runs 8 minute 23T and 8 minute 10T in expert modified. I'm personally all for longer racing (more time on the track is always a good thing
)
Wow, this thread have certainly exploded since I read it earlier this morning. Very good points expressed by a lot of you (and very valid ones as well
) lets all try to keep the posts as professional as possible and try not "flame" or get into which manufacture is better than which...etc. so we can keep this thread going. The goal is to hopefully catch the attention of the manufacture executives that visits R/C Tech (and many of them do) to see the opinions of the racers on this subject Personally, the price issue is something we deal with individual manufactures almost everyday. We always try to strive for a lower price because that's what will keep this hobby growing and more people involved inhopes that one day it become more visible as a mainstream hobby. However, we run into resistence very often and honestly, we get in trouble for trying to sell car kits too cheap (as strange as it sounds
) Which is the reason why most of the pre-order kits at the moment on our website have the manufacture suggested price listed and I have to trouble you guys to send me an email for the discount price. Unfortunately for us to continue to stay in business, and have good access to new released products, we have to play by the rules of the game of this industry and walk carefully in the political issues involved (yes, huge amounts of politic exist in this industry as well, when there is money involved, there will always be politics ) Personally I am concerned about the social responsibility (big word, I know... ) that these manufacture have towards the overall good of the hobby. When I started out racing touring car back in 1995-96, there is usually a healthy 2-3 heats of novice sedan, 2-3 heats of sportsman, 1 heat of exper stock, and so on...the key here is the amount of novice folks. Fast forward to today, I usually see one full heat of novice (if we're lucky) on any given raceday, sometimes none at all. That should be alarming for all manufactures, however, I see very few initiatives to promote new blood to the hobby. For instance, the Tamiya TCS series is a positive example that provides a good structured stepping stone system for guys to start out first in their TL01 spec class, then GT-3, GT-2, and then the big guns in GT-1 as their skills progress. Not sure what got into me today...sorry for the long post folks, I think I should go easy on the caffine after 12 noon. However, just a kind reminder, lets keep all the post professional and constructive.
maybe something positive will come out of these discussionsSteve Wang
p.s. just to reflect on something soviet posted, Sportsman racers in Japan runs 8 minute 23T and 8 minute 10T in expert modified. I'm personally all for longer racing (more time on the track is always a good thing
)
03-02-2005, 09:34 PM
#45
Yeah, I remember starting or posting a forum/thread about longer races.. from 5 to 6... minutes. Alot of people didn't like that. Would love to see 8.
As for cost and all, one thing to remember... the USA is not the only market for these cars. Asia is a big market. If not the biggest. And that's where there cars are primarily aimed at. Why do you think most of them come with oneways? I'm sure if the companies offered a cheaper kit for the US... alot of us would BOOO over it and get upset they didn't sell us the top of the line kit... (Pro3/Spec V?!).
Anyways, I agree with Steve's first post. I'd rather spend $400 for one kit rather than $200 for another plus $200-300 in hopups/tuning parts. The 415 is a great example. It came with all the swaybars, suspension mounts, and shims need to tune the car. All you really needed was a spring kit and some shock oil for tuning. But the EvoIV was over priced I thought. Just about the same price as the 415 but with NO extra sway bars or suspension mounts...
TCS RULES!!! hehe...
As for cost and all, one thing to remember... the USA is not the only market for these cars. Asia is a big market. If not the biggest. And that's where there cars are primarily aimed at. Why do you think most of them come with oneways? I'm sure if the companies offered a cheaper kit for the US... alot of us would BOOO over it and get upset they didn't sell us the top of the line kit... (Pro3/Spec V?!).
Anyways, I agree with Steve's first post. I'd rather spend $400 for one kit rather than $200 for another plus $200-300 in hopups/tuning parts. The 415 is a great example. It came with all the swaybars, suspension mounts, and shims need to tune the car. All you really needed was a spring kit and some shock oil for tuning. But the EvoIV was over priced I thought. Just about the same price as the 415 but with NO extra sway bars or suspension mounts...
TCS RULES!!! hehe...