R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

View Poll Results: What is your opinion on this topic?
Racing is better now. (Brushless Motors & Lipo Cells) 102 76.69%
Racing was better before. (Brushed Motors & Nimh Cells) 5 3.76%
Racing is racing, I just don't care. 26 19.55%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-28-2012, 08:39 PM   #1
Company Representative
 
Team Kwik's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 517
Send a message via AIM to Team Kwik Send a message via MSN to Team Kwik
Default I just need to know, easy question guys.

So this has been on my mind for a while now.

Those of you who know me personally understand that I have been away from racing for a while now for various reasons. While I have been away I keep my eye on things from time to time, checking in so to speak.

From being outside the industry for a little while and looking in, on-road racing in general just doesn't seem to be what it once was. There are fewer and fewer guys out there at every race and it's left me wondering why. Is the economy a factor? Are people just not interested in traveling as much? Did the big shift from brushed motors and nimh cells damage things? I can't help but hear this little voice coming from the back of my head that shouts to me, it's the last one! I just need to know. What do you guys think?

Answer using the handy little poll and please toss in your opinions in the thread. Very curious to hear what others think.

Nick
__________________
Team Kwik
http://www.teamkwik.com
Team Kwik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2012, 12:15 AM   #2
Tech Elite
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,839
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

The economy has a lot to do with it, but there are so many different elements to consider. For one, there has been a massive shift back to off road electric 10th scale racing.

To me, it seems like on-road is slowly gaining steam back again, but before it went south, it got to a point that was so far out expensive and complex that a lot of people just got burnt out.

Brushless and lipo is awesome. So are gear diffs. Cars last way longer now. I think what lacks a bit is manufacturer promotion, so this probably has to be moved to the racers, more like how they do in Europe.

5 years ago there were far fewer brands that you could buy of electronic equipment, chassis and the likes. Let's not mention 10 years ago. This decreased the profits of a lot of the companies that would spend in promotion, and straight up shut some operations, such as Yokomo USA down.

With Brushless and lipo, Trinity almost went under. TRINITY!!! What was probably the most powerful RC company in the world, almost went under. Now they are slowly building back up, but playing second fiddle to industry pioneers like Thunder Power and Team Orion.

With internet sales, you had local Pro-shop/track combos shut down and as a consequence, fewer places to race.

The tide seems to be turning in most parts of the country, but that is because dedicated groups of racers decide to set up a club, where the racers build the track and run the race program. Our club is like that in Houston. I believe the Colorado guys are this way and I know the Jackson, NJ and Philly boys are the same way. With this, there is typically more of a sense of being a part of something and usually people stay in the hobby longer and feel more obliged to attend week in and week out. This is a lot more like the European model of racing and it is a much more solid foundation for a track to stay open long term.

The "professional stock" driver also had a terrible effect on our driver pool. We fell so far behind against Europe and Asia racing mod and we are paying for it now. We did not develop talent. There are no more Barry Bakers, Joel Johnsons, Jon Orrs anymore. We have Paul Lemieux and Rick Hohwart and that's about it for "World Class" US Mod drivers. When you are not winning as a country, this has an effect on the domestic market as a whole. You have no one to market, no one to be the face of your brand.

From my view, right now, it is in the hands of the racers to promote the hobby to bring it back. Once we set up clubs and tracks, we get back up to speed, and develop racers, we'll start seeing interest pick back up to previous levels. Until this interest and participation is not ramped up, there is no incentive for manufacturers to write the checks for promotion, or for individuals to open up tracks and pro shops to race in.

-End rant.-
__________________
REFLEX RACING/ RSD/ GIZMO RACING USA/ HOBBYWING/ AXON/ QTEQ/ TEAM PRIME
CristianTabush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 11:26 AM   #3
Company Representative
 
Team Kwik's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 517
Send a message via AIM to Team Kwik Send a message via MSN to Team Kwik
Default

Great response Cristian, some great points in there I hadn't even really considered. I would love to hear more opinions from people, my curiosity has certainly been increased.

Nick
__________________
Team Kwik
http://www.teamkwik.com
Team Kwik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 12:35 PM   #4
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

That's most of it. The last couple of years have finally brought some changes that are more favorable to the "sportsman" driver who just wants to run on the weekend without too much trouble. BL motors and lipos certainly help in that regard. Those are the guys who keep the doors open at the track.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 01:23 PM   #5
Tech Champion
 
MikeXray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 5,749
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Kwik View Post
Great response Cristian, some great points in there I hadn't even really considered. I would love to hear more opinions from people, my curiosity has certainly been increased.

Nick
A lot of this varies by location, up by you there is little interest in onroad at both excitement and madness unfortunately. We thought onroad was dying in NYC/LI area as well, but 360 reopened closer to the city and they had great turnout all winter long, seems its always location, location, location.

It is still impossible to walk into a hobby shop and walk out with a race ready, fits rules of any national class, onroad car right now, compared too having like 30 options for offroad. (yes the TT01 technically fits the bill, but IMO the gearing limitations prevent it from racing anything other than silvercan).

AE could do it, they have that TC4 racer chassis now, they just need to add a 17.5 and spx zero with the RTR radio.
__________________
Mike L. Awesomatixusa.com | TQWire.com | Islandraceway.com |JacksonRCracing.com | Horsham RC | Sweepracingusa.com
MikeXray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 02:03 PM   #6
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rome - Italy
Posts: 278
Default

I think it's better now. No more comms to true every 2 runs, no more brushes to solder and break-in, no more ni-mh packs that lasts 15 runs, non more cells to discharge and equalize after every run....

Now I have more time to wrench on the car looking for a better setup, more time to chat with friends and so on...

Oh, and what about 2.4ghz radios? You can turn on your radio whenever you want without the need of shouting loud your own frequency!
Fastfreddy74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 02:11 PM   #7
Tech Master
 
texastc's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Forney Texas
Posts: 1,583
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I started racing in 1989 90, quit for several years and came back to bruahless and lipos. It is a lot better now. Motors last a long time now, and you don't need 7-8 battery packs per class per day now. On road has several more classes to choose from which does dilute the field, and it seems that the bigger companies only promote offroad or atleast focus on offroad with little on the on road. At the carpet Nats the big teams weren't very visible and some that I thought I would see were not even there. But all in all, I like rc a lot more in 2012.
__________________
Exotek F1Ultra Tamiya TRF101 Speed Passion SP1 and Exotek F1UltraX Prototype.
"TexasTC, the single Greatest RCF1 racer I have ever known" - My mom
"you are a disgrace to RC" - everyone else. TCdoesRC
texastc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #8
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,002
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Hello, I think high costs and serious racers have turned off newbies/beginners from even joining a race. Plus lack of marketing.

This year I started to organize on-road racing (specifically F1) because I believe there are lots of people who want to race, but have no atmosphere to race (i.e. cheap equipment, friendly racers, lots of track/race time). I am just a hobbyist, not affiliated with any hobby shop.

2012
January (first club race): 9 racers showed up
July (8th club race): 26 racers showed up

And in total, 45 unique racers and growing.


More track time (30 minute fastest lap quali, 3 x 15 minute mains), compressed race sched (1:45pm - 5:15pm), exciting formats (25 racers all together for fun).

Of which 15 are first time racers (beginners). I offer no trophies or raffle prizes. Yet new racers (and important, kids) continue to come.

If the intention of the organizers is for love of the hobby then racers will come. But if for love of money (holds races to sell kits)... dead hobby.

Hobby shops try to lure racers with trophies and raffle prizes. Not sure that works. I offer no prizes, just simple club races, yet get much more turnout than prize loaded races.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

__________________
www.rccartips.com
www.f1rccars.com
www.f1rcclub.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/rccartips/
http://www.facebook.com/RCCarTipsFan
rccartips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 06:59 PM   #9
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 422
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

WellI raced in the 90's until now, and I like it better now. I like the fact my batteries and motors last more than a weekend. Some stuff is worse, car kits are pretty expensive but then again I don;t feel like I break as much either, I just need to tweak something else.

There are more classes,and the pool is more dillute but overall I like it much better now . . .
mupchu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 10:34 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Okay, I'm one of the racing is racing guys. That being said, I've been racing for 25 or so years. My take on the current scene vs. the old scene is as follows:

Battery and motor maintenance is GREATLY decreased, expense is relatively the same. You're replacing things less frequently, but they cost significantly more, so that's about equal. It's good that we've cut down battery and motor maintenance, because now the cars are more complex in set-up. So to me, yet again pretty equal. Overall, there's still the quest for horsepower and a dialed chassis. The factors have changed but we're still looking for the thing. That's good in my opinion.

As far as turnouts, the economy is no help, but hardly the only reason. This hobby has always been cyclic in interest. Look at the last two big sweeping trends in the industry. In the 90's electric Off-Road was huge, it dominated the market. Enter the Touring Car, and on-road exploded. Big race turnouts at carpet races here in the US were gigantic, and parking lot tracks were EVERYWHERE. Then came the scourge of shortcourse, and an exodus of On-roaders to the new trend on dirt. It's just how this hobby has always gone. Eventually the pendulum will swing back to On-Road. In some places it's beginning to. There are racers dumping SC trucks, and picking up TC's and 12th scalers, and I really hope that continues.
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 11:23 PM   #11
Tech Adept
 
NewWestF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 173
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I'll chime in from a new comer to the hobby ..
i just bought my first car, FGX with all the fixin's so to speak .. by the time all was said and done, dropped some serious cash on my first car, well serious in the sense that it's not cheap to get started ... so there is a limiting factor right up front for anyone getting into the scene, startup cost.

to be honest there are a lot of long-in-the-tooth veterans that don't make newbs like me feel all that welcome .. limiting factor #2.

as mentioned before tracks seem to be limited, i don't really know "how it used to be" here in vancouver, but now it's tough to find places that cater to on-road with a decent track. we have maybe 3 places around town with regular events/track hours. limiting factor #3.

lastly, off-road definitely is in the drivers seat here so if you're into 4WD you'll definitely find more people that will share your interest. i, unfortunately, don't find a lot of fun in mudding and crawling .. i've been an F1 fan since i was a kid so that's where i leaned in this hobby; on-road, slick tyres, open wheel racing. although i do like rally a lot, i don't see a lot that doesn't have buggies or trucks off road.

i hope for the sake of the industry (and my newly built wheels) that people in the scene bring new blood into the scene. that people stop crying about how it was and start pushing how it can get better. i'd like to see more indoor tracks and maybe enthusiasts building permanent outdoor venues that mirror the full sized legendary tracks around the world (LeMans, Nurburgring, Monza and Silverstone). also streamline the governing bodies that write the rules, rc seems to be going the way of pro wrestling with all the different rules and regulations depending on what side of the city you live in .. that's kinda annoying for a newb looking in .. doesn't really affect me in canada but in the usa it's like you'd need 3 different motors for one car depending on what weekend and where you want to compete, a little standardizing would go a long way.

anyway, for what it's worth. that's my $0.02
__________________
.. Sakura FGX; Novak power plant, Exotek, Lotus/Renault #9 ..
.. TB-03 Calsonic GT-R . reventon s/ultra v.3 power plant . yeah racing ..
.. M-05 Mini Cooper, Silver Can 104BK speedo, fakkin' cute!

...one of these days, life will get easier...
NewWestF1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2012, 11:57 PM   #12
Tech Elite
 
CypressMidWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 4,618
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewWestF1 View Post
I'll chime in from a new comer to the hobby ..
i just bought my first car, FGX with all the fixin's so to speak .. by the time all was said and done, dropped some serious cash on my first car, well serious in the sense that it's not cheap to get started ... so there is a limiting factor right up front for anyone getting into the scene, startup cost.

to be honest there are a lot of long-in-the-tooth veterans that don't make newbs like me feel all that welcome .. limiting factor #2.

That's shameful, and I'm sorry to hear that happens where you are. Most of the old-timers in our area strive to assist the new racers as best as we can. We've seen how alienating new racers leads to the demise of tracks, and we do everything in our power to prevent that.

as mentioned before tracks seem to be limited, i don't really know "how it used to be" here in vancouver, but now it's tough to find places that cater to on-road with a decent track. we have maybe 3 places around town with regular events/track hours. limiting factor #3.

Wow! Three venues for you locally? We haven't really seen that in the states since the boom of the late 80's!

lastly, off-road definitely is in the drivers seat here so if you're into 4WD you'll definitely find more people that will share your interest. i, unfortunately, don't find a lot of fun in mudding and crawling .. i've been an F1 fan since i was a kid so that's where i leaned in this hobby; on-road, slick tyres, open wheel racing. although i do like rally a lot, i don't see a lot that doesn't have buggies or trucks off road.

Dirt has always been more popular due to the diversity of surfaces the cars/trucks can be run on. That's just the sad fact of the matter

i hope for the sake of the industry (and my newly built wheels) that people in the scene bring new blood into the scene. that people stop crying about how it was and start pushing how it can get better. i'd like to see more indoor tracks and maybe enthusiasts building permanent outdoor venues that mirror the full sized legendary tracks around the world (LeMans, Nurburgring, Monza and Silverstone).

While this would be AWESOME, the unfortunate aspect of cost rears its' ugly head in situations like this. Very few clubs or Hobbystores can afford to build a venue along those lines. Believe me, If I could build a 10th scale Spa, you 'd see it in central Ohio



also streamline the governing bodies that write the rules, rc seems to be going the way of pro wrestling with all the different rules and regulations depending on what side of the city you live in .. that's kinda annoying for a newb looking in .. doesn't really affect me in canada but in the usa it's like you'd need 3 different motors for one car depending on what weekend and where you want to compete, a little standardizing would go a long way.

This point is one that I feel can not be argued. This is something that is SORELY needed world wide.

anyway, for what it's worth. that's my $0.02
My take in red.
__________________
Team CRC, PowerPush, Access Race Place, US Indoor Champs, CD SUPERPRO, RK Designs, TxDSkingraphix, Cypress, Founder and lead instructor of the Ian Ruggles Negative Reinforcement Driver Training Program, enroll now.....
CypressMidWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:12 AM   #13
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CristianTabush View Post
The tide seems to be turning in most parts of the country, but that is because dedicated groups of racers decide to set up a club, where the racers build the track and run the race program. Our club is like that in Houston. I believe the Colorado guys are this way and I know the Jackson, NJ and Philly boys are the same way. With this, there is typically more of a sense of being a part of something and usually people stay in the hobby longer and feel more obliged to attend week in and week out. This is a lot more like the European model of racing and it is a much more solid foundation for a track to stay open long term.
This is one of the differences I noticed between the tracks I'm aware of in the US and the parts of Europe I know about. I have 8 permanent tracks within an hours drive (and even more if I'm willing to drive farther), 5 of which are similar in size and features to the Worlds track in Heemstede. Only one of the smaller indoor tracks is actually associated with a shop, the rest are all run by racing clubs. I do realise my view is subjective in this, not been to that many tracks stateside.

That said, we see a decline in membership too. The economy is a part of it... while not expensive to run entry level, initial cost is a factor. The decline isn't just our hobby, it hits clubs in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
Of which 15 are first time racers (beginners). I offer no trophies or raffle prizes. Yet new racers (and important, kids) continue to come.
We do have trophies. The podium spots get a plastic disposable coffee cup with their name, position and date written on it with a marker. If they ask nicely the race director will even sign it . Costs nothing, and I've rarely seen people so happy with an empty cup
__________________
Tamiya TRF101, Corally F1 SL, 3Racing F1-09, Kyosho Mini-Z MR03, Corally SP12M, Tamiya SuperShot, Kyosho Optima Pro, Duratrax Vendetta.
Home track: http://www.amcaracing.nl

Last edited by ijdod; 07-31-2012 at 12:24 AM.
ijdod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:17 AM   #14
Tech Adept
 
NewWestF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 173
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
My take in red.
Thanks for your take иии and taking the time to read.
__________________
.. Sakura FGX; Novak power plant, Exotek, Lotus/Renault #9 ..
.. TB-03 Calsonic GT-R . reventon s/ultra v.3 power plant . yeah racing ..
.. M-05 Mini Cooper, Silver Can 104BK speedo, fakkin' cute!

...one of these days, life will get easier...
NewWestF1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2012, 12:25 AM   #15
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewWestF1 View Post
as mentioned before tracks seem to be limited, i don't really know "how it used to be" here in vancouver, but now it's tough to find places that cater to on-road with a decent track. we have maybe 3 places around town with regular events/track hours. limiting factor #3.
like cypress said, i'd kill if there was 3 near me i live in chicago and i think there's like 1 track an hr way with limited races...
digitalsmithy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why do you have to let the leader pass you in racing? Pulse_ Electric Off-Road 195 06-03-2012 06:24 PM
need pro and cons-switching to brushless from nitro El Tigre Electric Off-Road 93 02-07-2010 08:10 PM
TT-01 'Get-to-Know' Drive - 27 Oct 2007 vadersing Singapore R/C Racers 206 11-09-2007 10:27 AM
Anyone actually run the LD3 yet, comparing to NTC3 ? compuatic Nitro On-Road 83 05-09-2003 04:52 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:09 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net