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Old 07-25-2012, 04:54 AM   #196
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If the shoe was on the other foot and Andy spun Naoto I have a feeling he would have waited or at least made effort to wait. The wc video when Andy won touring car were kind of the same thing. He was just trying to figure out how to not get destroyed at the start.

If you watch the videos when Naoto is pushed around or makes a mistake he is full pin and dives back into group of cars each time. Andy was unlucky.

Voelker move was pretty dodgy at the start of A2 also. But crash at starts is a bit more acceptable.

You expect a bit more courtesy at this level. I recently watched some off road videos from euros an they gave out penalty for rough driving. In many instances the drivers would stop and wait if they hit spun out another vehicle.

But with the factory guys a fair amount of money can be involved with a win so courtesy goes out the window.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:34 AM   #197
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Surely, Naoto was not going to hit the car of Andy, was an error, but the error should be sanctioned

However, the WC 1/12 is over.

Naoto has won.

Andy was fantastic, the best driver of the race.
no matter how, WC 1/12 is over......at least all drivers, sponsors are happy with the results. Otherwise, someone should take an objection just after the race.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:43 AM   #198
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Guys let's look at the entire 3 mains and not just 1 corner or incident.

A1
- Naoto slammed by backmarkers with a few laps to go in the race
- Andy Moore hit Volker hard from behind and looked like he did not wait for Volker either.



A2
- Groskamp hits Rheinard hard



A3

- Naoto hits Andy. But Andy also hit Volker in A1. It all evens out.

I think none of the drivers are hacks, just racing incidents between the best drivers in the world.

So hopefully we can give the guy a fair shake. He deserved the win.

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:00 AM   #199
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Naoto blew out, forcing Andy to avoid that incident. When Naoto pulled back on line he went full pull. Yes, Andy was a bit out of shape, but that is no excuse for a car driving into the side of another. It is the responsibility of the car doing the passing to execute a clean pass. Had he pulled to the side, let Andy past, then re-passed him I'd have no issue. His earlier tap is what unsettled Andy's car in the first place, so from an etiquette standpoint it's at the very least, questionable.

It's fine to be aggressive, but when you get it wrong, you should at least have the decency to wait for the car you hit. I guess I'm just old-school when it comes to these situations.
Absolutely agree with that. Naoto did blow out, and rejoined carelessly, and caused a racing incident with Andy... Ok, they came together, and I can see the arguement for it being a racing incident given the speed they are racing at, and I doubt Naoto did it on purpose... but Naoto was coming from behind, and he hit Andy, so should have given the place back regardless.

Actually, I think it was running though his mind too, as if you watch carefully the slow mo (around 1:20), you see him straighten up the car and hesitate for a (nano?) second on re-accelerating, as if he was about to let Andy recover, before realising Ronald and Rick were close... and that's probably more the issue, IMO.

Oh well, whats done is done, and as had been mentioned... only racing! And if you'd offered Andy second at the worlds a week ago, I'm sure he'd have taken it
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:11 AM   #200
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Yeah, I understand where you are coming from mate, but, the thing is, right now people all over FB and other mediums are saying that Andy is the true champion, and Noato is a 'hack' (whatever that means!). So, Noato and Yokomo have missed a trick here, because how good from a sportsmanship point of view would they look now if he had of waited? He might not of won the meeting but there certainly would not be the bad feeling that there does seem to be, just because he did n't wait!!
Perhaps, perhaps not. In the end, only the end result is remembered, not the #2 and onwards. Not necessarily saying it's the right thing to do, but a year from now they're still be known for having a WC, not for showing good sportsmanship.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:11 AM   #201
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Fits all three R12 cars that Yokomo has sold.
Awesome!! LOL
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:24 AM   #202
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Rccartips. andy hitting ronald at 2.22 mins andy did wait. If
you watch the vids on redrc.net
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:31 AM   #203
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I was just being sarcastic Mr. Slaughter. I know that they've sold more than four, I've seen more than that being sold off here on RCTech.
It's all good! It was more of a fun fact in regards to the perceived un-popularity of the car as stated both here and on Liverc chat.

In my opinion 1500 units is pretty good (I have heard various sales figures over the years for other cars)!

I would have guessed a much lower number....

And in the future no need for formalities, "hey a$$hole I was joking" would suffice!

Hope to see you @ a track in the future!

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:35 AM   #204
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In F1 a move like that is referred to as rejoining the track in an unsafe manner.
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Naoto blew out, forcing Andy to avoid that incident. When Naoto pulled back on line he went full pull.
Bingo.

While I don't consider Naoto a hack... nor do I think any of the contact incidents were intentional... I noticed a trend with him. If he gets out of shape or has contact(with another car or a track barrier), he rejoins the race ASA-MF-P. I mean, he pulls full wood regardless of where he is or who is near him.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:54 AM   #205
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Rccartips. andy hitting ronald at 2.22 mins andy did wait. If
you watch the vids on redrc.net
I watched it 10 times in slowmotion. They crashed before the corner, yet Andy's car was ahead at the exit of the corner apex.

Looked to me Andy did not wait as his car was in front of Ronald's at the corner after the crash and accelerating on the inside line.

Ronald made a great but dangerous move on the outside line to re overtake.

All are great drivers and I don't meaning anything negative when I think they don't wait. It's racing.

Just my viewpoint.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:27 AM   #206
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I watched all of 8-9-10 qual (even at 4 in the morning EST) and the finals (while at work hiding the screen). I also checked that slow motion review and I have to agree with some of the guys here, he couldn't have avoided that. I'm not going to lie, i didn't want him to win because of the write up on RedRC before the race started saying he was going to win. After looking at it in slow motion, Andy's car was starting to slide and I'm guessing if he didn't slide, he would have been out of the turn and out of the way.

I'm always rooting for the home team to bring home the win, but I don't think he was cheating or did it on purpose. In a race where you're making 12 second laps, most of you would have hit someone to get back in ASAP. He did jump in agressively, but he wasn't any closer to Andy's car than the rest of the cars were throughout the race.

Bash all you want, but I think he was racing and that's what we do, race.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:34 AM   #207
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I don't doubt Naoto's move was an accident. Boosted 3.5 motors probably rip pretty hard. But Naoto made a mistake, aggressively got back into the race line and then ruined another competitor's chance at winning a world championship. Oh, and he didn't wait after doing it. All of that points to a sense of entitlement on the track we've seen displayed in the past, and was fresh in our minds after his little tantrum after A2.

His buddy Hayato was doing the same sort of thing at RRoC the first day, and they called stop & go on him every time after that and took the guy out of contention. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't do it clean, you're a loser.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:39 AM   #208
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I don't doubt Naoto's move was an accident. Boosted 3.5 motors probably rip pretty hard. But Naoto made a mistake, aggressively got back into the race line and then ruined another competitor's chance at winning a world championship. Oh, and he didn't wait after doing it. All of that points to a sense of entitlement on the track we've seen displayed in the past, and was fresh in our minds after his little tantrum after A2.

His buddy Hayato was doing the same sort of thing at RRoC the first day, and they called stop & go on him every time after that and took the guy out of contention. I don't care how fast you are, if you can't do it clean, you're a loser.
Word.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:47 AM   #209
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Why wasn't Volker driving a Yoko?
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:34 AM   #210
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