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Old 07-11-2012, 06:36 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Or you could just buy a good ESC.
Who are you directing that to?
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
you understand that you can change the slope in which the power kicks in on the tekin right? I don't have that problem at all with it not being smooth.

That is also not the question I really don't care about feel personally

I mean does a lower resistance really take in to account when driving through the motor or a higher resistance? If someone wants to sit and tell me that even just .01 in a race doesn't add up they have never been in a close race. I will take .2 off my entire race anyday. But now you cut off .05 after twenty laps thats a second. That has been enough for 1-4 qualifier spots pending which race I have been at. So my question goes back to has anyone efficiently benchmarked the esc's like you can via cell phones...ie showing that the iphone in 3g mode is "benchmarked" as the fastest.

I will take a harsh anything if I can get a faster lap time.
I can't believe you're sitting here talking about finding .01 in an ESC due to resistance and in the same breath naysaying the importance of smooth power delivery.

If you're worried about .01, you should look into how ESC's get slower with age as the FETs wear out and become less efficient. Clearly what you need is to buy a new ESC every few months like you do with your batteries and motors.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Catfish12c View Post
Who are you directing that to?
Anybody saying you can make a Tekin feel like an LRP. People have been saying it for 4 years now, and it's not true. You can make it feel less like a Tekin, but it's not the same thing.

The best ESC deal out there is the Hobbywing Juststock. It's half the price of the next cheapest ESC and better in every measurable way.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #19
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To me feel is an important benchmark. Especially how the esc performs under braking and throttling mid corner.

Power does not necessarily translate to faster laptimes.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:01 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
I can't believe you're sitting here talking about finding .01 in an ESC due to resistance and in the same breath naysaying the importance of smooth power delivery.

If you're worried about .01, you should look into how ESC's get slower with age as the FETs wear out and become less efficient. Clearly what you need is to buy a new ESC every few months like you do with your batteries and motors.
Yes I get that. But I am asking from a new box if you pull it out. As for harsh delivery there aren't very many esc's that force everything to feel like an on/off switch so I'm not too worried about that.

So by your comments and the very fact that you follow it up by saying Hobbywing is best what exact evidence are you going by? The fact that certain drivers are using it? I'm not trying to be a dick but are you saying its the best based on its ability to be tuned? Or are you saying it gives you more in other ways?
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:19 PM   #21
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syndr0me - How do you feel about the R10 (my understanding is it a Hobbywing speedo)? Just asking...

To the others, it about matching the speedo to your driving style AND setup on the car. Back to that thread... PnS are going to want a different feel then McSmooth drivers. You can have all the best (fastest) in the world but if you can not transfer the power to the payment, it really does not matter. You really can see this in Nitro. The bad ass motor does not help them, until they have mastered, tunning, clucth, setup, etc....

Nolan - if what you say is true, then how or why do people that run a 9.5 in mod turn faster laps then a 4.0? (the best do not apply here, they know how to drive and setup the car to make the most of a 4.0.) You see this at LH with the drivers. A racer goes out an buys a 3.0 because they think it is faster (that motor it's self is), but the lap time for that driver do not show it. The have faster lap times with a "slower" motor.

One word: "BALANCE" it is all about BALANCE...
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:31 PM   #22
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Nolan - if what you say is true, then how or why do people that run a 9.5 in mod turn faster laps then a 4.0? (the best do not apply here, they know how to drive and setup the car to make the most of a 4.0.) You see this at LH with the drivers. A racer goes out an buys a 3.0 because they think it is faster (that motor it's self is), but the lap time for that driver do not show it. The have faster lap times with a "slower" motor.

One word: "BALANCE" it is all about BALANCE...
Barry I am purely refering to people who say that Brand x is faster than y running the same motor. Not people who can setup a car and run a slower motor and beat other people due to that fact. The whole point of this thread was to try to see if someone has actual facts showing the difference on speed controls not to see which one "feels" the best or can supply the smoothest power. The real questioning was geared towards if you take away all boost and timing in a "blinky" mode is there one speedo that out performs the rest.

I asked this after I was discussing bench testing on phones processing power for the internet. I was hoping someone had gone through testing saying that they would be like well I tested 5 speedo's and the results differ by certain percentages from either battery draw or speed variance.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:46 PM   #23
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Hi Nolan,

Are you only concerned on power at full throttle? I did a test once with several brushed speedos, all gave same voltage output at full throttle. Only one noticeably weaker was tamiya teu 104 esc.

For brushless I would expect modern escs have negligible internal resistance, and will give same voltage output at full throttle.

Just trying to understand what benchmark info you are looking for and maybe I might have some.

Thanks.

p.s. i guess what most are trying to say is power is now equal, and esc manufacturers are now focusing on driveability, power delivery, smooth yet powerful brakes, etc.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:55 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
To me feel is an important benchmark. Especially how the esc performs under braking and throttling mid corner.
Truth.

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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
So by your comments and the very fact that you follow it up by saying Hobbywing is best what exact evidence are you going by? The fact that certain drivers are using it? I'm not trying to be a dick but are you saying its the best based on its ability to be tuned? Or are you saying it gives you more in other ways?
Based on my experience with Hobbywing's other offerings. Very smooth and the price is right. It's where I'd go if I didn't have a love affair with the Black Diamond. I like buttery smooth power/brakes, and this ESC feels like magic to me.

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Originally Posted by bvoltz View Post
syndr0me - How do you feel about the R10 (my understanding is it a Hobbywing speedo)? Just asking...
I'd expect it to be good. It's sort of a v2.5 Hobbywing, which is their own way of describing it. Not quite a V3, but newer than their last generation stuff. It looks like they OEM'd the same ESC for Hacker. I actually just sold my Hobbywing V3 because the drag brake was TERRIBLE. Even no drag brake felt weird. My older stuff didn't have that problem. I imagine it's a software thing they'll figure out eventually, but to be honest that much ESC is overkill for blinky racing.

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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
The real questioning was geared towards if you take away all boost and timing in a "blinky" mode is there one speedo that out performs the rest.
You hear people say all the time that X is faster than Y. ROAR supposedly puts the ESCs on an extremely sensitive scope and measures the output waveform before saying an ESC is legal. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this method isn't effective. The same method was used to ban ORCA, and you could clearly see those were faster on the track.

I guess get an ORCA with their older blinky firmware and hope nobody notices.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
Barry I am purely refering to people who say that Brand x is faster than y running the same motor. Not people who can setup a car and run a slower motor and beat other people due to that fact. The whole point of this thread was to try to see if someone has actual facts showing the difference on speed controls not to see which one "feels" the best or can supply the smoothest power. The real questioning was geared towards if you take away all boost and timing in a "blinky" mode is there one speedo that out performs the rest.

I asked this after I was discussing bench testing on phones processing power for the internet. I was hoping someone had gone through testing saying that they would be like well I tested 5 speedo's and the results differ by certain percentages from either battery draw or speed variance.
Sorry but I don't understand what you are looking for. Are you looking for some time of testing equipment like we have for motors? the MMS systems? But even this equipment is not fool proof... thus they have created car dynos, the the only real dyno is the track, car, driver and lap times.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by rccartips View Post
p.s. i guess what most are trying to say is power is now equal, and esc manufacturers are now focusing on driveability, power delivery, smooth yet powerful brakes, etc.
I think this is basically it. There is definitely a difference between ESC's, but it doesn't seem to be the difference you're looking for.

Who knows, on a high grip carpet track with forward bite for days, maybe the Tekin is faster since it dumps out power so abruptly. It certainly was the case in boosted classes. You'd think your LRP or SpeedPassion was fast at home and then get to Vegas and get smoked by light switches since the forward bite was astronomical.
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:12 PM   #27
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I tried the LRP briefly. Didn't see any realworld difference that justified the larger footprint or (IMO) lesser customer service compared to Tekin. Most people say the LRP is smoother, I say it felt lazy. Not to cut on the LRP, just my personal opinion of the feel. For blinky racing, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them and I don't think that any of them will yield faster lap times based on power. My lap times didn't change at all with the LRP, I just didn't like the feel. Now that I'm running mod, I'm looking at other speedos again to test the feel when throttle control is alot more important.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:35 PM   #28
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I'm simply digging to find if anyone has done extensive testing from a personal unbiased controlled experiment. Nothing more. I run a tekin. I'm gonna try a speed passion this weekend.

I am also not implying that there is a faster speed control. I'm asking other than smoothness has anyone found that a battery will have more milliamperes and be easier on equipment than another. Temps of the motor and speedo etc.

I don't care what I run I just have the setups for tekin so I run it. If someone would have had vipers or hobbywings or speed passions it would be those in my car instead but I found used rs pro's for a steal. Hell personally I was more impressed with the Viper VTX R. But mine failed the second run I had it. Hint hint viper....wanna send me a demo... No just kidding I'm not quite good enough.

So don't take anything as a knock on a specific speed control. But if you say x is the best I'm gonna ask you how.

I used to run nothing but Novak's when it was brushed . There didn't seem to be a better company unless it was tekin. So I'm just curious.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:26 PM   #29
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Buying a good(another) ESC is what the esc manufacturers want us all to do ! Will it really make us faster ? NO !!! It's all psychological, new stuff=better laptimes.... Not true everytime, but they sure want you to think so.... Understanding how you could make your current esc/radio combo smoother is the way to go first before you break your bank again ! Personally, I like putting all the punch in my Esc's to the max, and smooth it out with my radio, that way if the track layout changes, I can just adjust the radio settings and never touch the Esc.... I never burned One yet, and I run Novak, LRP, and tekin RX8 esc's.....
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #30
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Are you refering to a Spec class eg Blinky? I have personally ran a "Brushlesshobbies" ESC and the Tekin RS in the Blinky 17.5 class and have also been competitive with just about ANY other Speedos. I have NOT noticed too much change. I do know that one is lighter i.e. (tekin).

You have to include "FEEL" even though you want to quantify you results. The tekin in my experience regardless of software acts like a on/off switch eveng though with the 212 software much better. This plays a big role when going around the track. Software IMO changes the feel. The Brushlesshobbies is smoother power is much more linear. Me haveing a itchy throttle finger - this goes a lonh way.
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All competing speedos from your top manufacturers are going to give you the same basic amount of power at full throttle. Feel, ease of use, dependability, and support is where some speedos shine above others.

For example, the final output power between a Tekin RS and my LRP SXXv2 is probably about identical. But I am measurably faster with the LRP because the controller puts power down in a way that is far smoother, and far more predictable. So to me, the better "feel" of the LRP directly results in better lap times because the car is easier to drive... this makes a MUCH bigger difference on the track, than any tiny percentage of power difference that may or may not even exist.
100%....I gained a full lap by switching from Tekin to LRP.....the new software is better for ppl like me that doesnt have that smooth finger, but Im faster with the LRP by far...is the esc faster...NO...cause plenty guys are faster than me with the Tekin...but for my driving stlye and learning curve, its LRP for me...

Our track owner and myself are doing some testing for esc in USVTA, and finding that the truth is, NOT ALL ESC's are the same...
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