R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-04-2012, 10:54 AM   #1
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South FLorida
Posts: 1,104
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Profoxcg
Default Touring Bodies - why are they so out of scale?

This applies to both nitro touring and electrics. For the longest time since I first got into rc back in 2002, there were always the "racing" bodies. At that time protoform Mazda 6 and Alfa, as well as other bodies but those were the most popular. However as we all know these bodies, and the current ones are basically deformed squished interpretations of some sedans.

I was watching the euro 5th scale onroad videos on youtube. These are sanctioned races from what I gathered (I could be wrong), but the bodies they run are much more to scale or closer representations of their counterparts. The cars seem just as fast and handle great.

So my question is, why do we run such "race" bodies in 10th scale ?

PS: yes I know there is RCGT ect. But but if we usually run a touring class, shouldnt we run an actual touring bodies?

I am sure some smart pants will say "if you want scale go build models" but if you think about it. RC car racing is a form of scale model racing.

Happy 4th btw everyone.
Profoxcg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 11:26 AM   #2
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,763
Default

Becuase the rules have slowly been changed to eek out that last bit of performance instead of keeping things 'realistic'.

The bonnets/hoods etc can't get any lower due to the shock towers etc, so the rooves come down instead which makes for the squashed look of every TC.

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 11:27 AM   #3
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NY/FL
Posts: 3,376
Trader Rating: 24 (100%+)
Default

Actually, I'm a bit confused as to your question. Are you wanting the "race" bodies like the Mazda 6 to be more realistic OR are you asking to make bodies like a BMW 3 series more realistic?? Personally, the RCGT/USGT bodies all look pretty darned good, although one could argue that a Porsche 911 isn't anywhere the size of a BMW 5 series so why do our RC versions seem to be the same size.
As for the "race" versions. Well, they're meant for top level racing where fractions of a second might be gained because this body offers better aero than another race body. For 99 percent of us it won't mean squat.
Evoracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 11:38 AM   #4
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South FLorida
Posts: 1,104
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Profoxcg
Default

both of you guys understood and answered the question...
and evo you are right, for most people it doesn't make a difference.

I think its like the "wingcars" in slot car back in the 60. from what I read/heard, it got to the point where the cars did not looked looked like cars.
Profoxcg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #5
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,908
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Performance + regulations = squished bodies

The IFS cars can use low nose bodies, like the Super GT NSX. Looks much better, scale, and aerodynamically sound too.
I'd run this body in stock TC if it fits on my 417, but this body is out of spec. The roof is too low iirc. :P
__________________
Lost in RC limbo
inpuressa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #6
Tech Regular
 
FNG RIDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 374
Default

Not a fan of the jelly bean shape of 1/10 tc race bodies nor the surealist livery in dayglo. actually i hate it. LMAO
__________________
RC10B5, Tekno 410 sct, TA05 v2 Reedy 17.5, Revolt 30, Seaport Tug, Axial SCX10 Rubicon ess sound system.
FNG RIDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 01:01 PM   #7
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hudson Falls, NY
Posts: 872
Default

Profoxcg and FNG RIDER, I agree about the lack of "scale" bodies and cars in onroad rc racing; and yes, in my view too, it is a form of "scale model racing". In fact I don't refer to myself as an "rc car racer", but rather a "MODEL car racer". And FNG RIDER, I also hate the "jelly bean", "blob" bodies with weird dayglo paint schemes either!! And I was involved with slot cars in the late 60's and 70's when those ugly wing cars that didn't even look like a car, took over 1/24 slot car racing. Ugh!!!

However, having said all that, you are never going to change the fact that a large amount(probably the majority) of "rc racers" here in the USA prefer ultimate performance over "scale" racing, and as such, it's not going to change ever, I think. I'm not putting down "performance over scale' racing, it definitely has it's place; and I've been involved with both over the years. The best thing you can do is to hopefully find some friends where you live who feel as you do and start your own "scale rc model car racing class".
Tamiya, HPI and ABC Hobby make some excellent "scale" bodies for whatever class of rc onroad you wish to do, whether it's touring car, Formula 1, Le Mans prototype cars, vintage cars, etc. That's what my friends and I have done. We race the ABC Hobby Goose car with beautiful scale bodies that look just like the real car; and we will be getting back to Formula 1 very soon with some very scale cars.

Also, keep posting on these forums to let folks know what you think. The more that show an interest in "scale" racing and promote it, the better chance it will become more popular with the mainstream public, and then the manufacturers and the media will take notice!
Team Lotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #8
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,763
Default

Best I could manage, when we were relaxed about rules;

This was a Kyosho Fazer nitro shell on my GT10;



I love my TC, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good.
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 04:04 PM   #9
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stockport, UK
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Profoxcg View Post
So my question is, why do we run such "race" bodies in 10th scale ?
We run the 'race bodies' because that's what the racers want to run. The whole point of the class is to go as fast as you can, and the body is a big part of the high speed handling of a touring car. In fact the organisations have had to introduce rules to limit what the race body specialists can do to prevent the bodies getting too far away from replicas.

Of course if you aren't running at a big sanctioned race meeting there's nothing to stop you running whatever body you want, so the reason you are running a jelly mould body is because you have chosen to run it, no one is forcing you to do so. If you are just racing at your local club, if you aren't allowed to run whatever body you want then the people to blame are your club organisers.

Quote:
I was watching the euro 5th scale onroad videos on youtube. These are sanctioned races from what I gathered (I could be wrong), but the bodies they run are much more to scale or closer representations of their counterparts. The cars seem just as fast and handle great.
You have actually asked two questions there, with two answers. Firstly, the 1/5th scale cars aren't as fast as 1/10th tourers with a lower power/weight ratio, but they are considerably heavier so the body generated downforce contributes much less to the grip and handling than with a 1/10th. Moving a body 5mm forwards or backwards on a 1/10th touring car makes a noticeable difference to the handling, I doubt you would feel any difference with a 1/5th scale.
Secondly, with 1/5th scale the only bodies you can buy are from the manufacturers who are designing them for their scale looks, not their aerodynamics. The 1/10th scale equivalent is the TCS, where Tamiya only allow their own scale bodies. The price of the bodies (over 100) also limits a lot of people to whatever body they get with the kit, you aren't going to buy several shells and test which handles best. If large scale wasn't such a small niche and Protoform took an interest, I'm sure we would see jelly mould shells for them.
terry.sc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #10
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 290
Default

The tyres on 1/10th TC's are not to scale, nor is the power, acceleration or the speed, if you try to run scale bodies in anything other than the slowest class they handle like a bag of poo.

Even Skiddins Fazer has a huge non scale rear spoiler to get it to go where you want it to go

Bb
bucketboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #11
Tech Champion
 
geeunit1014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The dirty burnie
Posts: 5,506
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

What one must realize, is that there is no "scale". There is only size. Air, speed, and the rest of physics do not scale. A shape that works aerodynamically at one size and speed, is probably not going to work at another size and speed. The shape of touring car bodies reflects what shape is going to best take advantage of aero at the size and speed of the car cars we run within regulations.
__________________
Mike Gee

Awesomatix USA/Pyscho Cells Racing/Tekin/Sweep Racing/RSD/180 Raceway/Johns Mobile Raceway/TQ Wire/Avid/Sanwa
geeunit1014 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 08:58 PM   #12
Tech Champion
 
hanulec's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: @ the post office
Posts: 8,562
Trader Rating: 27 (100%+)
Default

does it matter if all most people do is just use one (ugly?) color on their bodies? i much rather see more of a focus on real racing inspired paint jobs.. or just something more than a spray bomb w/ all different colored stickers.

those uf1 guys got that right...
__________________
FJ / ROAR #2-122945 / MaxRotation FPV Drone Racing / [email protected] Awesomatix USA / Wild Turbo Fan / Mon-Tech Racing / RocheRC USA / Side Piece /
LRP / John's BSR Tires / TeamEAM / TQ Wire / R1 / Team Scream / PCR / MIX
RacerLog wiki Awesomatix A700 / 2wd offroad 4 life
hanulec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2012, 09:07 PM   #13
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South FLorida
Posts: 1,104
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Profoxcg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geeunit1014 View Post
What one must realize, is that there is no "scale". There is only size. Air, speed, and the rest of physics do not scale. A shape that works aerodynamically at one size and speed, is probably not going to work at another size and speed. The shape of touring car bodies reflects what shape is going to best take advantage of aero at the size and speed of the car cars we run within regulations.
yeah but that is whole another concept though.
And I think that what you mention above is the reason for the lack of "modelismo" in RC. Everyone wants to go fast ect.

In my case for instance, the one club the is reopening want to run and enforce ROAR. What a turn off if you ask me. I have a membership, and I have nothing against them (roar). But now, the races are mini-sanctioned events. There is a mini class - but unfortunately, those classes do not seem to grow enough to satisfy someone looking for that scale look.

It would be interesting to see the top drives drive a scale alfa or mazda or audi. I am sure than then, it would really come down to setup and driving rather than what it seems to me, relying very much on the body ?

No saying that bodies are not important, but maybe they shouldn't see so important.

(ha its late and ive been drinking )
Profoxcg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 07:07 AM   #14
Tech Champion
 
TimPotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Boynton Beach Fl > Randoph NJ
Posts: 7,481
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to TimPotter
Default

Actually the development of going to a more " blob" look has been stopped as far as EFRA and ROAR are concerned. A couple years ago a few people in the industry pushed what is called the GBS standard. Basically it is a bunch of measurements intended to keep sedans looking " like " sedans.

As has been noted before, we are racing, and racers generally will take things in the way of going faster, not staying scale. Just look @ 12th scale pan and 1/8th scale cars. The bodies are important, and always will be with the power/weight ratio on 1/10 TC's....unless we slow them down so much, it does not matter.

Ceasar, I have stayed out of the discussion regarding running whatever body @ Coral Springs, but have you asked Andre or Mike what bodies are ok ? At the club level, Bodies are pretty much ignored, just because it is a ROAR club race, does not mean they follow the national guidelines to the "t". We run whatever body in our blink class, for one simple reason. The race specific bodies generally will be a performance advantage over the scale bodies, so if you want to race at a disadvantage, we are ok with it.

What it really comes down to is this, we are out to have fun, and thats what we intend to do. If you want to go faster, then you go get the equipment to go faster, if not, then you come to the track and have fun with what you have.

That being said, I am a big fan of scale racing. Love seeing the more scale stuff on the track. Really brings new people in..
__________________
Clean Title & Escrow|p3|TRF|Tamiya|SerpentAmerica|FSEARA|Team Butter|RC 3|Munno |RCTECH #29|EAMotorsports|BMI|Novak|SpeedPassion|RadioPost

Last edited by TimPotter; 07-05-2012 at 11:09 AM.
TimPotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2012, 09:07 AM   #15
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South FLorida
Posts: 1,104
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Profoxcg
Default

Keep in mind though, this has really nothing to do with CS Tim. I actually had a Mazda for Sunday, but the body post I was running on my IFS body were too short. Rather than waste a trip and get upset I decided not to go. I instead rode 25 miles on the Zipps

I will look into the GBS Standard, sound interesting. I know RCGT is comming to back to your track, so maybe there is where I will play if I even make out there.

Either way I understand your post completely. I realize that the only way to run a scale class (for lack of a better term) would be RCGT. It would be interesting to have a scale sedan class in the that case.
Profoxcg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Team Associated 1/8 scale Truggy Info and Tips Kevin Boyle Nitro Off-Road 4505 11-14-2017 12:51 AM
New Hot Bodies Buggy!!??????? monsteraddict Nitro Off-Road 14489 03-18-2013 02:42 PM
190mm TC bodies YR4Dude Electric On-Road 26 09-06-2011 01:33 PM
Why are electric touring cars 190mm wide???... ShadowAu Electric On-Road 34 01-06-2008 08:23 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:11 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net