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Old 06-28-2012, 12:47 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=RedBullFiXX;10890635]BlackArt bodies do a great job of looking scale, and they work as well, or better than any 12th scale body on the market



Dave, you are my hero. Great looking body. One thing all current 1/12TH bodies have in common is cockpit areas that are far too narrow. I do like scale looking bodies and have gotten a couple of compliments from people who say they look more like real cars. Painting in general tries my patience and never seems to turn out quite as I envisioned. Most of my bodies are 1 or 2 color that I don't care about when they get crumpled. And what exactly are the Bomb R and Mohawk supposed to be models of?
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:05 PM   #32
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And what exactly are the Bomb R and Mohawk supposed to be models of?
The Bomb R is an Aston Martin. The Black Market (mohawk) is an either an R18 or a Peugeot. Unfortunately, liberties must be taken when fashioning bodies for 12th scale cars........
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:03 AM   #33
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The problem, I believe, is that that the majority of people who race RC cars are not big-enough fans of current full-size endurance race cars to want to emulate them in their racing activities. This is in contrast to fans of full-sized endurance race cars who dream of realistic looking, scale RC cars but don't race today because current RC cars do not represent the cars they see on TV or remember from years past (like Group C or GTP cars).
I think this is the crux of the problem here. Racing in the GTP days had a bigger draw among the everyday person even in the US. These days what is popular is street racing...ala F&F...as a result we saw a bit of a popularity bump in RC drifting and those guys really deck out their cars for scale realism and of course bling. I think Short Course Trucks get their popularity from full sized Motocross...since it is near impossible to have a really cool and fast RC motocross bike I think fans latch on to the next best thing. Add into that the popularity of console game racing and what cars do you see there? Certainly not GTP...its almost all souped up street racers.

For me personally it went the other way around...I was first a fan of RC racing which then turned me into a fan of the full sized racing scene...specifically F1 and GTP.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:32 AM   #34
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Short Course trucks came from the Stadium truck series which were run in the 80's in "stadiums". Associated came out with the RC10T, which had a realist Chevrolet S10 stadium truck body, but big balloon tires hanging way outside the body. Short course trucks have just become realistic, looking like real staddium and off road trucks. VTA cars look like the rel Trans Am cars run in that series in the late 60's and early 70's. Gary McAllister (McAllister Racing) has some great realistic bodies (Corvette DP) Bob Stormer has brought back some great bodies. The Dodge Stratus was pretty much the downfall of TC realistic bodies, every body had to look and perform like the Stratus , then came outlining windows in neon colors and neon airbrushed paint jobs. Real racing teams don't do that because of the cost of repainting for every race. Look how VTA, USGT, and Short Course have taken off, realisim, we can race what is really raced. Check out Gary and Bob's posts.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:07 AM   #35
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As far as I know, All Professional race teams worth their salt run new paint / bodywork every time the car or bike hits the track
It's how they give sponsors maximum benefit

I've been running this particular Mohawk body for a while
it is an improvement on the rather pushy Bomb'r, and looks a bit more like a realistic car imo



I imagine BlackArt had the TS030 in mind here

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Old 06-29-2012, 10:33 AM   #36
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looks 'better' imo too ... Need to get away fron the 'molded-in' rear Spoiler but that could possibly require the 'pan-car' design philosophy in general to change to... but would that be a bad idea? no, i have a few ideas..

and i believe it was the Peugot they had in mind, since thats where Toyota got them.. lol..
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:10 AM   #37
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looks 'better' imo too ... Need to get away fron the 'molded-in' rear Spoiler but that could possibly require the 'pan-car' design philosophy in general to change to... but would that be a bad idea? no, i have a few ideas..

and i believe it was the Peugeot they had in mind, since that's where Toyota got them.. lol..
I suppose you're right, as Toyota own a major share of Peugeot & Citroen

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #38
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I suppose you're right, as Toyota own a major share of Peugeot & Citroen

story i heard was Toyota developed and prepared an LMP1 car in 9months!! Toyota is good, but THAT good?! lol.. and considering the timing of Peugots exit, i woul imagine there was a great 'sharing' of information however big or small the details may be..
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #39
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The Toyota car is quite different from the Peugeot's. They did develop it very quickly having only started the project last September. They did get a car together impressively quick especially when you consider they had to find a way to take their Hybrid Synergy drive train, make it twice as powerful, half the weight, and then find a super capacitor that would do what they needed. They definitely had the speed as they were about 5 mph faster at the top end than the Audi's. There were early hints that their car wasn't going to last though as during testing at SPA they had engine failures. If they can get reliability figured out over the next year the 2013 24 Hours of LeMans is going to be pretty interesting.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:48 PM   #40
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With the Advent of the AUDI R18 Hybrid (Quattro i believe it was/is) that competed at LeMans i think it'd be only appropriate that a replica be made for the 4WD sedan chassis.. LMP1 class also runs the same size tire on all four corners..
The Audi "Quattro" was part of their hybrid system so it ran for about 3-4 seconds once the car was above 120km/h so I hardly think that makes a compelling argument to make it fit a 4WD sedan chassis ... also the LMP cars don't actually use the same tyres front and rear but they do now use tyres that are closer in size... for example at Le Mans this year both Audi and Toyota were using the same sizes (front: 36/71-18 / rear: 37/71-18)... only the first Acura LMP1 ran same tyres front and rear and that wasn't considered a success as the larger tyres proved harder to warm up after safety car periods and on slower tracks.

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BTW, it does cost considerable money to paint a nice body. Three colors = three cans of paint = $20 or more. Even a simple all blue Red Bull paint scheme will cost you the price of a spray can plus the sticker sheet which is another $25 on top of that. Yes it is a hobby. However, some aren't willing to spend that on a body vs. hop-ups and tires.
+1... most of the hobby shops I have access to here in Australia are charging $10+ per can of paint... and not much less if you go the bottles for airbrushing etc but that just adds a different expense...

It's one of the things that annoys me about the F1 brigade that so many are so heavily devoted to "scale appearance"... some of the sticker kits can be $50+... add a $30 body plus some paint and good bye $90-$100 for a body that will get the crap belted out of it by some hack 3 corners into it's first race ... no thanks... I'd rather save my money and make sure I have that new set of tyres to put on for the final
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Last edited by ShadowAu; 06-29-2012 at 10:12 PM. Reason: checked my facts
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:48 PM   #41
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The Audi "Quattro" was part of their hybrid system so it ran for about 3-4 seconds once the car was above 120km/h so I hardly think that makes a compelling argument to make it fit a 4WD sedan chassis ... also the LMP cars don't actually use the same tyres front and rear but they do now use tyres that are closer in size... for example at Le Mans this year both Audi and Toyota were using the same sizes (front: 36/71-18 / rear: 37/71-18)... only the first Acura LMP1 ran same tyres front and rear and that wasn't considered a success as the larger tyres proved harder to warm up after safety car periods and on slower tracks.



....
was just trying to make the point in the scale appearance and mechanics (could possibly argue performance) of how close a 4WD sedan platform is as compared to that of say a 'pancar'.. none is a straight transition if you want to get into details...
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Old 06-30-2012, 03:05 AM   #42
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"in my opinion, this is exactly what could revive pancar racing"The problem, I believe, is that that the majority of people who race RC cars do not care for scale realism, or are not big-enough fans of current full-size endurance race cars to want to emulate them in their racing activities...
That's the issue right there - we want to race. To get the best race performance, we can't use a scale car because it doesn't handle when we race. How is that different from the real thing? Does that Audi look anything like the Audi road cars? Does the Peugeot look anything like their road cars? Even the GT3 cars bear only a passing resemblance to road cars. No, they don't look anything like the cars on the road the spectator drives. When people go model car racing, they go for the highest performance possible so we also make changes to the cars we base them on to get the highest performance possible. If a scale shell for GT10, 12th, TC, etc. handled as well as we needed, we'd use them. They don't... we don't... simples!

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I don't care for the multi-colored tribal vomit either. However, even for many, masking for two or three colors in a simple paint job is still a challenge let alone decaling the body in a manner that would compliment it right. Even some of the simpliest paint schemes cost time and patience and not many have that to spend. For those of us who do, that is why we are on this thread.
And another reason - most people don't have the skill for good paint jobs. I do agree that we could do ourselves a lot of good if we banned the tribal vomit and made it a rule that paint schemes must be a replica, or representative of a full-size paint scheme. At least then spectators might relate better to the cars than the tribal war paint currently used.

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SThe Dodge Stratus was pretty much the downfall of TC realistic bodies, every body had to look and perform like the Stratus...
Not true, actually. That body was probably the last realistic TC shell ever produced. It had a full-width cabin just like the real thing, it had a windscreen rake that was so close to the real thing it wasn't worth the argument, and it had a pretty close scale height too. I was the approver for the bodies for the first TC Worlds in England, and I did not approve the Protoform copy of that shell because it had a cabin that was 3/4 the width of the car, was too low and had an even greater windscreen rake.

Yes, the Andy's Stratus was the best handling shell, and it was also one of the most realistic shells. I do agree that today's cars are nothing like a TC. Nonetheless, if the tribal vomit were banned and the cars were painted in a realistic full-size team colours, then they could look very like TCs, instead of mobile colour swatches.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:13 PM   #43
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I guess I'm a minority here. I would like a fairly accurate Audi R18 body but I don't like the modern tribal style showoff your artistic airbrush skills paint schemes. I do like performance but I'd like an R18 to at least look like an R18 rather than being a vague representation such as a NASCAR Camry to a real Camry. Not even close. It's a sticker. I believe that things like spraying the track with traction compounds has ruined racing as it is cheating. I also think that foam tires have no place outside of carpet. I do like real racing but if you make it too easy then you may as well just go play with slot cars since that's what too many people today expect their handling to be. Now saying this I'm into F1 but I think people go too far and get too picky about absolute realism. I think there is a fine blend of the 2. I don't think you need an absolutely realistic paint job but at the same time I think it should be one that could be or is in the spirit of the class. Tribal isn't it.
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #44
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I guess I'm a minority here. I would like a fairly accurate Audi R18 body but I don't like the modern tribal style showoff your artistic airbrush skills paint schemes. I do like performance but I'd like an R18 to at least look like an R18 rather than being a vague representation such as a NASCAR Camry to a real Camry. Not even close. It's a sticker. I believe that things like spraying the track with traction compounds has ruined racing as it is cheating. I also think that foam tires have no place outside of carpet. I do like real racing but if you make it too easy then you may as well just go play with slot cars since that's what too many people today expect their handling to be. Now saying this I'm into F1 but I think people go too far and get too picky about absolute realism. I think there is a fine blend of the 2. I don't think you need an absolutely realistic paint job but at the same time I think it should be one that could be or is in the spirit of the class. Tribal isn't it.
Agreed for the most part. The most fun racing ive ever done was with high speed drift tires on awd cars around a track. Just enough grip to drive, not eny more, not any less
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:50 AM   #45
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BTW, it does cost considerable money to paint a nice body. Three colors = three cans of paint = $20 or more. Even a simple all blue Red Bull paint scheme will cost you the price of a spray can plus the sticker sheet which is another $25 on top of that. Yes it is a hobby. However, some aren't willing to spend that on a body vs. hop-ups and tires.
It only cost money if you are LAZY,you dont have to buy the decal sheets because you have a computer so you can use MS Paint to print them out and stick them to the inside.One can of paint and a few well placed decals can make anything a Ferrari. Even just black with some a few JPS decals looks better than %90 of most cars. White and some Martini lines looks good also.
May idea is that if people spent less time on forums they would have plenty of time to paint up a nice body,and make decals for it.
and 1/12 you can paint 3 bodies with one can of paint.
If you like scale paint that way,if you dont paint that way dont say it too hard and blame other people. Just admit it,LAZY.
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