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Old 06-14-2012, 03:50 PM   #106
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Blinky to me is about creating a slow (or slower enough class) to equal the "stock"class speed of brushed years. It is not about having a cheaper class nor is it a class for less cheating. It is simply to have a significantly slow(er) class.
Then why not run a slower motor? Why is 17.5 blinky good but not 21.5 boosted?
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:04 PM   #107
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Then why not run a slower motor? Why is 17.5 blinky good but not 21.5 boosted?
because speed is not the reason here.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:13 PM   #108
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Then why not run a slower motor? Why is 17.5 blinky good but not 21.5 boosted?
As an organizer I want to grow the hobby. I think blinky is simpler and will attract more racers. Maybe not the die hards or techies, but the average racer or new racer.

Chassis tuning is already complex. I would not want to add another layer of complexity (rpm ramp, boost, turbo, delay all in conjunction with finding the right gearing).

Racing is racers + car engineers. I believe most racers just want to race.
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Last edited by rccartips; 06-14-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: correction on boost, meant blinky
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:47 PM   #109
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As an organizer I want to grow the hobby. I think boost is simpler and will attract more racers. Maybe not the die hards or techies, but the average racer or new racer.

Chassis tuning is already complex. I would not want to add another layer of complexity (rpm ramp, boost, turbo, delay all in conjunction with finding the right gearing).

Racing is racers + car engineers. I believe most racers just want to race.
I think you mean blinky*

IMO you are wrong and couldn't be more out of touch. As per my other posts we run boosted and even newbies young kids ect have no issues with running dynamic timing ESCs.

Most ESC manufactures have a pile of setups either on RC tech and or the webpages to suit different motors. Someone with no experience can easily look up the settings for there motor ESC combo and plug them in. This will get you 95% of the way to the perfect setup.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:00 PM   #110
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As an organizer I want to grow the hobby. I think boost is simpler and will attract more racers. Maybe not the die hards or techies, but the average racer or new racer.
That's fine but that's not what you said in your first post. The only reason you gave was that it's slower.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:35 PM   #111
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That's fine but that's not what you said in your first post. The only reason you gave was that it's slower.
The context there was boost was faster than blinky (fast class vs slow class). You question was different, slow boost (21.5 boost) vs slow blinky (17.5). Same speed but different approach. That's where I answered less complexity for me is better (just my opinion as an organizer).

Yes to me a slower class is needed mainly to attract new racers or for aging racers like me.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:57 PM   #112
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I think you mean blinky*

IMO you are wrong and couldn't be more out of touch. As per my other posts we run boosted and even newbies young kids ect have no issues with running dynamic timing ESCs.

Most ESC manufactures have a pile of setups either on RC tech and or the webpages to suit different motors. Someone with no experience can easily look up the settings for there motor ESC combo and plug them in. This will get you 95% of the way to the perfect setup.
Thanks, you are correct I meant blinky is simpler.

If your local program is successful, more power to you guys.

I have an 11 year old daughter, she runs boost and modified TC. Boost is no problem for her to drive, she simply hands the car to Jilles (Tamiya driver) and he is kind enough to set it all up. But if I ask her to do it herself (setup esc), no way she could understand it all.

I think looking at the larger picture, we need blinky for stock. IIC, ETS, I believe might share that view?

Strange to me that a stock class (boost) will be more complex than modified.
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13.5 at the IIC is unboosted *sadface*-team-tamiya-titc-2012.jpg  
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:00 PM   #113
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Yes to me a slower class is needed mainly to attract new racers or for aging racers like me.
I tend to agree, especially at the local level but we're talking big races here. Why ELIMINATE boosted from the options? I mean that's like saying that Spec Miata is a great entry level real racing series that attracts many new racers so lets COMPLETELY eliminate NASCAR, IRL, Grand Am, ALMS, Trans Am, WRC, etc. Want to go faster, go F1, nothing in between.

Now I also tend to agree that there are too many classes but this decision hasn't changed that, it's just changed the rules for an existing class that guys that like slow, blinky racing wouldn't run anyway. So what was the point?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:09 PM   #114
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Want to go faster, go F1, nothing in between.
My observation is boost is already around 95% the speed of modified. It is not an in-between class per what I see where I have raced. And not eliminated per se, you can run boost equipment in the mod class. And eliminate 100% cheating issues.

Why spend hundreds of man hours teching a boost class when you can simply say, use whatever motor you want. Anyways track layout, size and driving skill will be the limiting factor.

And if in a big race, ending up G main of modified is the in-between class for me. The mains determine the speed and race with people of similar speed.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:37 PM   #115
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Strange to me that a stock class (boost) will be more complex than modified.
Blinky wont change that. Stock, no matter what the rules, will ALWAYS be more complex than mod.

I can hear you saying BS from all the way over here but it is actually true.

How can that be? Because mod almost completely eliminates one of the major factors, HP.

What are the other major factors? Let's list them and compare the different classes.

1. Driver. This is the single most important aspect of RC racing. But it's importance is weighed a bit differently for stock vs. mod. I'm pretty good but not quite pro level. Give Paul L and me absolutely identical stock cars, I will be able to turn about the same fastest lap but he will be a tick more consistent and thus beat me by half a lap or so. Give us both identical mod cars and he will probably lap me twice. With stock cars being slow and thus easier to set-up and drive, the difference between the really good drivers and the great drivers is much smaller. Therefore, at a big race level where there are many really good drivers, small gains in equipment can make up for small losses in talent, so technical complexity goes up for the stock class.

2. Tires. If both classes use control tires or both open tires, no difference. I do know a track that runs control for stock but open for mod so yes, mod has a big upswing in complexity there.

3. Chassis set-up. Both classes use the same chassis so no difference there. Yes there can be differences in the actual set-up and you could make the point that it is more critical in mod but really if we are talking about being competitive at a big race level, the complexity is about the same even if some details differ.

4. Power. In mod, you have more than you could ever use. Need more power, up the boost or go to a hotter motor. It really is that simple. Stock, you had better do your homework or you will lose. It is true that the guy with the most HP rarely wins but the guy that does win is never far off. The guy with the least HP NEVER wins stock. I have seen low power mod cars win.

So you see, stock has one more requirement for a winning combo than mod does. In stock, you have to be really really good at everything. Mod, just become a truly great driver and you will always be competitive. Get the chassis right and you will win. Motors, batteries and speedos, as long as you can drive it they really don't matter. That's why you see nearly every motor brand out there making mains at big races, while in stock, just a couple brands seem to dominate.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #116
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My observation is boost is already around 95% the speed of modified. It is not an in-between class per what I see where I have raced. And not eliminated per se, you can run boost equipment in the mod class. And eliminate 100% cheating issues.

Why spend hundreds of man hours teching a boost class when you can simply say, use whatever motor you want. Anyways track layout, size and driving skill will be the limiting factor.
In TC that's true, bit different for pan cars. And still doesn't answer the question of why have an in between class at all if it isn't boosted? They still have a 13.5 class, they just got rid of the boost.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:44 PM   #117
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I like 13.5 boosted 12th scale a lot.

Just thought I would throw that out there.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:45 PM   #118
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I like 13.5 boosted 12th scale a lot.

Just thought I would throw that out there.
I'm with you there.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:55 PM   #119
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I like 17.5 blinky TC. But 17.5 12th scale is soooo slow. I do think that stock should be 13.5, middle class 10.5, and then open mod.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #120
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Thanks, you are correct I meant blinky is simpler.

If your local program is successful, more power to you guys.

I have an 11 year old daughter, she runs boost and modified TC. Boost is no problem for her to drive, she simply hands the car to Jilles (Tamiya driver) and he is kind enough to set it all up. But if I ask her to do it herself (setup esc), no way she could understand it all.

I think looking at the larger picture, we need blinky for stock. IIC, ETS, I believe might share that view?

Strange to me that a stock class (boost) will be more complex than modified.
Very strange view that doesn't make logical sense.

Firstly you guys need to drop the word stock as there is nothing stock about a stock car.

The spec classes have always been the same complexity as modified, mod runs boost so if the spec classes are boosted they would be the same.

From your point of view open ESC that doesn't need tech is also easier.

As to your 11 year old, does she setup her own car, tune shocks, chassi flex, tweak, weight distribution, tweak body shells know which tyres inserts to use ect. Based on what I have seen with local races and young teenages she would probably have better luck setting up dynamic timing than you would and for those that cant a good club will always have more experienced racers that are willing help out the youngsters and beginners.

I think looking at the big picture we need all clubs to have novice/beginner classes ie silver cans of very basic blinky brushless setups.

We run two classes at our club as do most other local clubs to provide this option but once racers get to an intermediate level they are then running boosted. By this stage you can drive setup a car and are prepaired to spend the $$$. But we are not talking about club days but big meets.

At big races the novice classes are not run for obvious reasons and the classes which are run should IMO offer a lower than mod speed boosted class.
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