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Old 06-12-2012, 03:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by redbones View Post
correct, majority of people don't want to do that. But there will be those few tweakers that ruin it for the casuals.
By definition the casuals wouldn't be overly impacted as they are....well, casual.

If a guy at my track wants to go out and buy 50 motors at a time it has no impact on me. I'm not some waterhead that runs and does everything I see somebody else do. If someone else decides to go that route and gets hit with the realization that they just spent a lot of money for little gain, I'll do my best to help them by buying their motors at 70% off. Trickle down economy, right?Anything I can do to help a moron with no financial discipline or common sense.


Hope the IIC is a great race. The people actually going are probably laughing their asses off at the rest of us on this thread. If not they should.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #77
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that's because blinky was advertised as a novice class that everyone has a chance to win at.
First time i have heard that.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:26 PM   #78
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By definition the casuals wouldn't be overly impacted as they are....well, casual.

If a guy at my track wants to go out and buy 50 motors at a time it has no impact on me. I'm not some waterhead that runs and does everything I see somebody else do. If someone else decides to go that route and gets hit with the realization that they just spent a lot of money for little gain, I'll do my best to help them by buying their motors at 70% off. Trickle down economy, right?Anything I can do to help a moron with no financial discipline or common sense.


Hope the IIC is a great race. The people actually going are probably laughing their asses off at the rest of us on this thread. If not they should.
being blasted away by the same guy on the straight may be ok for you, but I don't think that bodes well for most people seriously trying to win. For blinky, that very little gain counts. even worse since the tweakers are usually pretty good drivers already. Just saying, history repeats. It's the sos all over again, just no comms to cut.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #79
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being blasted away by the same guy on the straight may be ok for you, but I don't think that bodes well for most people seriously trying to win. For blinky, that very little gain counts. even worse since the tweakers are usually pretty good drivers already. Just saying, history repeats. It's the sos all over again, just no comms to cut.
Again, by your own definition how are the "casual" racers that you seem so concerned about impacted? The serious racers will spend the time, money or both to be fast. The casual guys are there to have fun. Some will spend a lot of money on the hobby, some won't. It isn't your business or mine. This is completely independent of boost or blinky. In the boosted days I saw some guys try multiple speed controls looking for an advantage. These weren't free. Why ignore the cost of that when arguing the issue of someone buying multiple motors? Your argument is awfully selective.

How long has your track been running blinky? My local track has been running it for over a year running the Halloween Classic twice in that time along with the ROAR region 5 qualifiers with Blinky 17.5 TC as the highest turnout touring class. Numbers were strong and I can't recall anyone just getting "blasted" on power alone. Not there or our club races or at any of the other regional tracks I've been to.

You seem to think the whole blinky thing is a ROAR ploy to control commerce in the ESC market. Was boost ROAR's way to suppress the motor business? Where is the concern for the free market and all those lost motor sales in the good old days when people just bought a Tekin and ran the same motor forever? Again, the selectivity of your arguments tells me it has nothing to do with altruism and everything to do with your own personal agenda.

No hard feelings. Just the way I see it.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:16 PM   #80
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So does every rule change have to have everyones consent before they go through? We would still be running brushed motors if that was the case.

Whatever your personal opinion the majority prefer blinky, the IIC wouldn't be running blinky if they thought boosted was more popular. Scotty isn't just going to deliberately create classes that are unpopular, as drivers can choose to race there or not and the IIC has to pay for itself the classes run are what they think will attract the most racers.

If you don't want to run blinky then go find a race running boosted instead, if everyone who wants to run boosted doesn't sign up to the IIC and there is a lack of numbers then Scotty will know what the majority wants. I suspect they will have no problem filling all the spaces at the IIC.
Clearly you missed my point; my point is that we cannot make a choice between boost or non-boost at any major race because there is no boost class to choose. I have no doubt that the IIC will be full just as it is every year so that does'nt prove anything about which class is more popular. It really only shows that with so few on-road events/venues left that racers will run whats offered, likeing it is a non-factor.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:51 PM   #81
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I'm not talking about teching the shit out of motors for club racing.

I'm talking about having fair tech for These Huge races where people spend 2-3 grand to go to them only to be mind fuc-ed the whole week chasing horsepower because someone was running a motor that should of never been allowed on the track in the first place.

And the 13.5 thing has nothing to do with boost and more to do with Motor tech.

I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.

I want racing to be fair. And the best way to do this is to have strict tech.

For example I tqed the IIC in 13.5 12th scale last year by a decent amount. The first 2 rounds I had runs faster than anyone else put in all weekend. My motor was not teched for these rounds. In the 3rd round I broke. My motor was teched. Why I have no idea.
Totally agree. These big races should really step up their game on motor tech and apply constant pressure on checking all week. I would like to see a random/name out of a hat format even if it is only on a few motors per round. I know I can tear down a motor in just a couple minutes, so it doesn't seem to be that time consuming. I feel bad for the odd guy out of the A main at last years iic because some prick decided to cheat.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:43 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by WIITA View Post
Totally agree. These big races should really step up their game on motor tech and apply constant pressure on checking all week. I would like to see a random/name out of a hat format even if it is only on a few motors per round. I know I can tear down a motor in just a couple minutes, so it doesn't seem to be that time consuming. I feel bad for the odd guy out of the A main at last years iic because some prick decided to cheat.
Oh yeah totally steaming if that happened. I would make my voice heard about tech items at that time. I can't even imagine being qualified 11th and finding out he cheated and you could have been in the A-main at a huge race. Especially if it was someone at one of their first big races.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:34 PM   #83
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If there is no boosted at the IIC, I'd like to see 12 scale be 10.5.

13.5 non-boosted 12th scale is just too slow. Period

Don't tell me to just run mod either cause that is just insane
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:46 PM   #84
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:39 PM   #85
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Totally agree. These big races should really step up their game on motor tech and apply constant pressure on checking all week. I would like to see a random/name out of a hat format even if it is only on a few motors per round. I know I can tear down a motor in just a couple minutes, so it doesn't seem to be that time consuming. I feel bad for the odd guy out of the A main at last years iic because some prick decided to cheat.
Driver ID#'s randomly pulled before the round starts, Those pulled are teched immediately after running their heat that round. Plus the top three of each class per round. This is how I intend to tech at this year's US Indoor Champs.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #86
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Right, because when boost was dominant people weren't jumping from one speedo to the next. Gee, let's add up the cost of a tekin+black diamond and maybe toss in a castle for good measure. Was everyone doing this? Of course not. It is just as silly a presumption that the average club racer is going to be ordering motors by the gross because of blinky. Some will regardless of blinky or boosted. It works for them. It isn't a ROAR conspiracy, it is the way some people approach the hobby.
Some people did jump from Speedo to Speedo (especially Goetz). I however, campaigned the same Tekin RSPro for the entirety of the boosted era, along with the same two Duo 1's. The speedo argument can also be made in blinky, as I see tons of guys have switched from LRP and Tekin to Hobbywing since the advent of the blinky age. Me? I'm still rocking that same RSPro. Those who bought BD's were certainly disappointed after Vegas and Cleveland 2k9, as they were left with $300 paper weights the instant Tekin dropped new software. My whole theory when we went brushless was to ONLY buy esc's that offered updateable software. Fixed throttle profiles died with the Novak Pit Wizard in what 1995?

I prefer boosted, but I'm done stirring these pots. Blinky is where we are, and I have chosen to support it, as it's all we have left.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:11 PM   #87
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Im starting to feel that now. Whats gonna stop me from buying a gauss reader and 10 different rotors and stators to build a motor best for the track I race at.

A few button presses in the software and I can specifically tune the motor specifically how I want it to run.

I just think its cheaper and easier with boost to tune a motor.
And when we raced brushed stock motors this didn't happen? Of course it did, and whatever we decide to run it will always happen as is pointed out in the post about the oval racing - and they run boosted!

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Interesting. Out of curiosity, what are these motors that came out and rendered other motors hopelessly slow? Ive seen a number of motors come through my local track and while some are stronger in certain respects I've yet to see one that makes anyone completely uncompetitive. Not doubting you, just wondering why it doesn't seem to be an issue in my area.
Which is also my experience. We have run 10.5 blinky for a whole season here and the winner was not the fastest motor, it was the fastest driver.

If you don't want to run 13.5 blinky, then don't enter the event. There are more than enough people who do want to run it and will enter. Sorry to say, the people on here who don't want to run blinky will not be missed at the IIC!
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:41 AM   #88
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Did everyone really ever just sit back and give boost a chance to level out?

By that I mean, given time, it would have been available by all brands, likely easier due to development, and even out in terms of function.

What I saw personally, was people bitch about it being a one brand race, with no temperament to let all the brands catch up, and refine it till most people would have no issue getting a grasp on it.

I'm not saying anything bad about anyone, just given your now faced with so much pain from zero timing motor tuning, maybe the smart though would have been to just let boost run it's proper development course, long term it would likely have meant software development for free, vs one motor after the next.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:38 AM   #89
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Yes and no.

Yes the technology was given time to develop and everything did level off as the technology matured. But this was a little too late as the people against boost had already made up there mind long ago and refuse to change. They have been fighting for zero timing ESCs ever since and never let up.

From what I have seen those opposed to boost were all firstly pissed off after buying very expensive BD ESCs to be fast and or buying tekin's that was much cheaper but gave them crap feel.

There is also a few people who cant seem to understand the technology and get the best out of dynamic timing who bitch and moan.

At present quite a few ESCs which are very affordable all perform the same and can be nice and smooth.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:07 AM   #90
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Some people did jump from Speedo to Speedo (especially Goetz). I however, campaigned the same Tekin RSPro for the entirety of the boosted era, along with the same two Duo 1's. The speedo argument can also be made in blinky, as I see tons of guys have switched from LRP and Tekin to Hobbywing since the advent of the blinky age. Me? I'm still rocking that same RSPro. Those who bought BD's were certainly disappointed after Vegas and Cleveland 2k9, as they were left with $300 paper weights the instant Tekin dropped new software. My whole theory when we went brushless was to ONLY buy esc's that offered updateable software. Fixed throttle profiles died with the Novak Pit Wizard in what 1995?

I prefer boosted, but I'm done stirring these pots. Blinky is where we are, and I have chosen to support it, as it's all we have left.
My point was simply as racers and consumers it is up to us to police our own spending. If I want to be hyper-competitive and buy multiple speed controls or motors knowing in the back of my head that they, for the most part, are equal despite different powerbands or delivery I have no one to blame but myself. Being blinky or boost wouldn't have changed the behavior if I am a tinkerer or have to try everything to not feel like I'm leaving something on the table. While valid I think both arguements apply to the minority of racers and are really weak arguements for or against blinky.

I agree with a lot of what you say. For TC I enjoy the speed of blinky (largely because it is fast enough to be fun to me and still somewhat controllable). I detested blinky 1/12th scale for every reason you already stated and no longer race that class. Boost isn't evil and I agree that it should have been left alone in the pan car classes or the motor wind should have been adjusted.

See ya at the races!
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