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Old 06-11-2012, 02:34 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
+1

I won't get into the boost deal, I honestly don't care either way, both are fun and cool

As for 12th scale, wouldn't 10.5 blinky be a better middle ground than 13.5 ?
I still labor over this one. 10.5 blinky is fun and fast. They do run boost in Mod, and 13.5 boosted is as fast as 10.5 blinky. That makes me wonder if 13.5 boosted is potentially a better learning environment for those who want to step to mod, just based on learning to use the esc's.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:45 PM   #32
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you want spec, you need to get teching to be the same level as the Tamiya GP in Japan.

All electronics must be checked using a setup similar to the vid. Batt load checker, motor maximum RPM checker, etc.

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


I think all this BS will be cleared if you set a max motor RPM limit.
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:52 PM   #33
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I don't care blinky or boosted but if you're going to make a middle class blinky, why have a middle class at all? Especially TC where at least indoors, a boosted 13.5 could probably win mod in the right hands.

As for 1/12th, I wish 13.5 blinky WAS the slow, "stock" class. 17.5 is just too damn boring for me. So if I go, I'll run mod or 13.5 or both.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #34
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I will miss the boosted "middle" class, it always showed who could get all aspects figured out.

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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.
Your awesome

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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
I must respectfully disagree. Boost was far too complicated for the average racer to understand.
Correct me if i am wrong but the guys who have been at every big race i atteneded the past few years are not average, those who show up to compete know what they are doing, and should be able to maximize every aspect of going around the track faster. The title of an "expert" class will simply weed out those who can't figure out a hotwire.

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A rule ROAR uses at the nats that actually makes a lot of sense is that you can only tech in 3 motors per class.
Probably the smartest rule they have, especially since its locks you to rotors as well.

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Motor tech + sealing -- or handout sealed motors. This is the only way to make things fair.

I'm one of the suckers that felt like he got worked over last year in 17.5 1/12th -- although unintentionally by another racer using a 13.5 in the 17.5 blinky 1/12th class. A simple tech / sealing prior to round 1 would have resolved a lot of drama and waisted time ..
You would not have tq'd with a 13.5 anyways. However it is VERY sad that happened. As much as we would hate to lock one company for each event handout motors is where brushed ended up, and brushless will find its way there sooner or later.

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The best way to do this IMHO, is to go back to sealed, locked endbell motors. No ceramic bearings, no tuning rotors, no mechanical timing adjustments. Replaceable sensor boards ONLY, and only one type of board. Do your tuning with the ESC.
Handout with limit of 3 cures all Well maybe except cost, however when is the last time you didn't nuke 2 or more motors running blinky at a big race anyways.

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Apparently the other thread about boost being dead overflowed with tears, so we needed this one.

I just wanted boost to die so I didn't have to run a Tekin. Nice guys over there, mostly, but the feel of the ESC never did it for me. I hear they fixed it now. Too late it seems.
As much as I usually don't run Tekin stuff now, they really did set the bar for esc updates without spendng more, and they always came though for people doing all kinds of dumb stuff to their product. Come to think of it, i have blown up way more of any other brand i have ever used, and the newwest versions feels pretty nice
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #35
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What ever the rules maybe I just want to know that every racer has an equal chance of winning, and Its comes down to driving and setup.

That makes for good close race.
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by JamesL_71 View Post
This year will be my first IIC... can someone explain the extent of motor/battery/esc tech that takes place?

At the Carpet Nats this year, the resistance of each coil was measured and then the case screws were sealed and the motor was stickered. I didn't see any motors disassembled in pre-tech, though.
Tech at last years IIC was a joke. Their was a guy in front of me in line that had tekin208 with only 1 blinking light that made it through tech, i said something to the tech guy and he let the guy run anyways (told the guy to change it before next round). Not much was looked at last year. Im sure tech will be more strict this year but will see.
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:51 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mike Haynes View Post
As much as I usually don't run Tekin stuff now, they really did set the bar for esc updates without spendng more, and they always came though for people doing all kinds of dumb stuff to their product. Come to think of it, i have blown up way more of any other brand i have ever used, and the newwest versions feels pretty nice
It's also worth remembering that they saved all of us from having to drop $450 on a Black Diamond. I think their monopoly on boost was part of its demise. It's a little sad to see a company punished for its success. I guess that's what happened with the Black Diamond, too, but they were gouging people on prices, so nobody cared.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mike Haynes View Post
Correct me if i am wrong but the guys who have been at every big race i atteneded the past few years are not average, those who show up to compete know what they are doing, and should be able to maximize every aspect of going around the track faster. The title of an "expert" class will simply weed out those who can't figure out a hotwire.
Totally agreed. Just realized that I forgot my at the end my statement that you quoted.
Further re-inforcing the urgent need for a sarcasm font.......
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:11 AM   #39
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What ever the rules maybe I just want to know that every racer has an equal chance of winning, and Its comes down to driving and setup.

That makes for good close race.
This is one of my FAVORITE posts ever.

In what form of racing is powertrain not part of the set-up? Jesus, NASCAR Sprint cup is the most regulated form of racing on the planet, and their engine builders spend SH!T-TONS of money looking for any miniscule HP advantage they can get.

It kills me that so many people hate adjustable esc's, but are perfectly fine with a multitude of rotor options, mechanical timing, ceramic bearings, and in the case of one manufacturer, stators handwound from special wire.

I just think it's hypocritical to take away free tuning via software, but allowing tuning that creates additional hardware expense.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:21 AM   #40
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[COLOR="Red"]

I just think it's hypocritical to take away free tuning via software, but allowing tuning that creates additional hardware expense.[/QUOTE]

Im starting to feel that now. Whats gonna stop me from buying a gauss reader and 10 different rotors and stators to build a motor best for the track I race at.

A few button presses in the software and I can specifically tune the motor specifically how I want it to run.

I just think its cheaper and easier with boost to tune a motor.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:10 AM   #41
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As much as I have always disliked and resisted the idea of needing to mess around with all of the various programmable speedo timing and boost settings, I hate it worse when I show up at the track to race blinky, only to find out that one or two of the racers in attendance are sporting a new "must have" motor or rotor that has instantly rendered all other motors hopelessly slow, off the pace, and therefore obsolete. When this happens in a class where the rules are supposed to be keeping the available power approximately equal, that just sucks. It viloates the concept of fair, close, and equal competition in "stock" class racing. To make metters worse, often it takes days or even weeks to track down and to procure the new must have motor or option tuning part. Meanwhile there is no chance to be competitive again until the latest must have motor or motor component arrives. While I hate to admit it, I have resigned myself to the reality that the impact of this phenomenon is less severe on the average but still serious club level racer when tunable speedos are allowed. The upside to the boosted speedos is that they afford the racer an opportunity to take better advantage of whatever motor that they already have....with less need for the continuous outlay of cash that is required if one tries to keep up with the "motor of the week" phenomenon.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:26 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by vafactor View Post
As much as I have always disliked and resisted the idea of needing to mess around with all of the various programmable speedo timing and boost settings, I hate it worse when I show up at the track to race blinky, only to find out that one or two of the racers in attendance are sporting a new "must have" motor or rotor that has instantly rendered all other motors hopelessly slow, off the pace, and therefore obsolete. When this happens in a class where the rules are supposed to be keeping the available power approximately equal, that just sucks. It viloates the concept of fair, close, and equal competition in "stock" class racing. To make metters worse, often it takes days or even weeks to track down and to procure the new must have motor or option tuning part. Meanwhile there is no chance to be competitive again until the latest must have motor or motor component arrives. While I hate to admit it, I have resigned myself to the reality that the impact of this phenomenon is less severe on the average but still serious club level racer when tunable speedos are allowed. The upside to the boosted speedos is that they afford the racer an opportunity to take better advantage of whatever motor that they already have....with less need for the continuous outlay of cash that is required if one tries to keep up with the "motor of the week" phenomenon.
Interesting. Out of curiosity, what are these motors that came out and rendered other motors hopelessly slow? Ive seen a number of motors come through my local track and while some are stronger in certain respects I've yet to see one that makes anyone completely uncompetitive. Not doubting you, just wondering why it doesn't seem to be an issue in my area.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:42 AM   #43
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I couldnt agree more, with Blinky you are always hunting for the latest and greatest combo which in fact is exactly what they want ! you are running the motors at there very limits where with boosted esc you could adapt your setting to make the motor to work, with blinky how many spare motors do you keep ? is it the same amount for when you ran boosted ???

Personally I think its a marketing ploy to sell more goods as there will always be a new 'greatest' motor and unfortunately this does not have the racers interests at heart !
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:58 AM   #44
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What I found was that running boosted or blinky, you still had to hunt for the optimum motor combination. Boosted just added another layer. The eye opener was having a oval race at our track last year. The guys hustling to find the proper power band for our tracks run line, corner configuration and traction was amazing. The only difference in the amount of work between open and spec was getting the timing profile right. In oval if you are off .05/lap your out to lunch. That is where the chassis dynos live (another issue).
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:41 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by goots View Post
[COLOR="Red"]

I just think it's hypocritical to take away free tuning via software, but allowing tuning that creates additional hardware expense.
Im starting to feel that now. Whats gonna stop me from buying a gauss reader and 10 different rotors and stators to build a motor best for the track I race at.

A few button presses in the software and I can specifically tune the motor specifically how I want it to run.

I just think its cheaper and easier with boost to tune a motor.[/QUOTE]

This will happen boost or no boost. People would do that even if there is boost. This is the way it's been for as long as I remember. I got out of the hobby at the introduction to brushless. But have been racing for 20 years. We used to buy three motors, then tons of brushes, and springs. You would cut down the commutator to the fastest level run it till it slowed and then it was garbage. In some cases that would mean one to two runs. Just remember where we started and how much costs truly have come down. People who want more power are going to buy rotors, motors, stators and test em and match em anyway. IMO.

Plus you can still run boost. It's still called mod.
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