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Old 06-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #16
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My only comment is I personally don't want to buy new equiptment every few months due to a company coming out with new technology. It happens with computers. By the time you leave the computer store your BRAND NEW computer is already outdated. With the economy being down and this hobby being somewhat expensive already why outcast the normal everyday guy who isn't going to buy a new speedo every 3 months just because he can go .1 seconds a lap faster. There will always be better and faster around the corner but let it happen slowly for the sake of the hobby.

As for Tech programs I agree with Larry although if your at a club spec level what are you going to do if someone is testing a new motor? If you are racing at a club where people cheat then sure. Are you ready to take on Spec'ing every motor for a club race? I know most the really good guys can run with the 13.5 guys in 17.5. Its obvious on the straight though. If there was an easier way to tech that was free to super cheap please shed the light and I am sure most or all tracks will get on the program.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:23 PM   #17
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My only comment is I personally don't want to buy new equiptment every few months due to a company coming out with new technology. It happens with computers. By the time you leave the computer store your BRAND NEW computer is already outdated. With the economy being down and this hobby being somewhat expensive already why outcast the normal everyday guy who isn't going to buy a new speedo every 3 months just because he can go .1 seconds a lap faster. There will always be better and faster around the corner but let it happen slowly for the sake of the hobby.

As for Tech programs I agree with Larry although if your at a club spec level what are you going to do if someone is testing a new motor? If you are racing at a club where people cheat then sure. Are you ready to take on Spec'ing every motor for a club race? I know most the really good guys can run with the 13.5 guys in 17.5. Its obvious on the straight though. If there was an easier way to tech that was free to super cheap please shed the light and I am sure most or all tracks will get on the program.
I'm not talking about teching the shit out of motors for club racing.

I'm talking about having fair tech for These Huge races where people spend 2-3 grand to go to them only to be mind fuc-ed the whole week chasing horsepower because someone was running a motor that should of never been allowed on the track in the first place.

And the 13.5 thing has nothing to do with boost and more to do with Motor tech.

I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.

I want racing to be fair. And the best way to do this is to have strict tech.

For example I tqed the IIC in 13.5 12th scale last year by a decent amount. The first 2 rounds I had runs faster than anyone else put in all weekend. My motor was not teched for these rounds. In the 3rd round I broke. My motor was teched. Why I have no idea.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:30 PM   #18
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Just want to add to the mix that this no boost thing has very little to do with people whining about it being too hard to understand. It is simply a ploy to prevent certain companies from cornering the esc market. Another good technology gone to waste.
I must respectfully disagree. Boost was far too complicated for the average racer to understand.

Having a TC with infinitely variable roll centers, tons of spring/oil/damper/camberlink mounting options, different chassis flex characteristics, different body choices, etc. makes for such an easy class for a newbie to get started in. The problem was that even experienced racers were overwhelmed by the horrific complexity of moving a sliding cursor w/in some software.

Now we get the option of trying multiple brands of motor and their rotor/stator combinations to find a great motor. Of course, this option costs additional money.

And for all the folks that think "Ya wanna run boost? Then run Mod" is an acceptable answer, I offer you this equally stubborn and short-sighted alternative.... "Ya wanna run Blinky? Run VTA or USGT." Those classes were specifically designed to level the playing field for those who didn't want to put in the motor/esc work.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #19
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I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.
Preach on Brotha Larry!!!
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:40 PM   #20
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I'm not talking about teching the shit out of motors for club racing.

I'm talking about having fair tech for These Huge races where people spend 2-3 grand to go to them only to be mind fuc-ed the whole week chasing horsepower because someone was running a motor that should of never been allowed on the track in the first place.

And the 13.5 thing has nothing to do with boost and more to do with Motor tech.

I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.

I want racing to be fair. And the best way to do this is to have strict tech.

For example I tqed the IIC in 13.5 12th scale last year by a decent amount. The first 2 rounds I had runs faster than anyone else put in all weekend. My motor was not teched for these rounds. In the 3rd round I broke. My motor was teched. Why I have no idea.
Oh jeez yeah I thought you were talking about club race level. Yeah I will be at the Nats and I as well hope we get throughly teched for motor. But control one you get your motor back etc will be hard. I would love to see a handout race. Now the iic offers it but with getting back into the hobby and prepping for the nats im tapped to try to travel this year but if I spent the money to travel and found out I was in the b due to one guy running an illegal motor id be beyond pissed off.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
I want racing to be fair. And the best way to do this is to have strict tech.

For example I tqed the IIC in 13.5 12th scale last year by a decent amount. The first 2 rounds I had runs faster than anyone else put in all weekend. My motor was not teched for these rounds. In the 3rd round I broke. My motor was teched. Why I have no idea.
The best way to do this IMHO, is to go back to sealed, locked endbell motors. No ceramic bearings, no tuning rotors, no mechanical timing adjustments. Replaceable sensor boards ONLY, and only one type of board. Do your tuning with the ESC.

That way tech doesn't have to worry about the situation as much. Check to make sure the tabs on the endbell haven't been tampered with, and let 'em go. If a car seems noticeably faster, then tech the motor after the heat.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:47 PM   #22
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A driver got away with running a 13.5 all week last year in 17.5 and qualified 2nd. That is not acceptable.

Drivers should not be made to "challenge" another drivers motor to get it teched like at the Reedy. It can cause tension in the pits and on the stand. Everyone should be held to the same standard. If your car hits the track the motor is legal. No questions asked.

Take them apart, Check everything and seal them like at a roar race or the snowbirds.

There are already too many Companies hand winding stuff now which in my opnion is against the spirit of the Spec rules. Now they can handwind them and still cheat and as long as they dont get caught they are ok.

Thats BS.

MOTOR TECH IS NECESSARY TO CREATE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

I'm not even going to talk about the even bigger discrepency of going from the Middle class to mod this is going to create.
+1

I won't get into the boost deal, I honestly don't care either way, both are fun and cool

As for 12th scale, wouldn't 10.5 blinky be a better middle ground than 13.5 ?
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:50 PM   #23
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Apparently the other thread about boost being dead overflowed with tears, so we needed this one.

I just wanted boost to die so I didn't have to run a Tekin. Nice guys over there, mostly, but the feel of the ESC never did it for me. I hear they fixed it now. Too late it seems.

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Old 06-11-2012, 01:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
Here is the problem. If you get rid of boost you have to have STRICT motor Tech.

That means your car cannot hit the track until the motor has been completely checked and sealed.

A driver got away with running a 13.5 all week last year in 17.5 and qualified 2nd. That is not acceptable.

Drivers should not be made to "challenge" another drivers motor to get it teched like at the Reedy. It can cause tension in the pits and on the stand. Everyone should be held to the same standard. If your car hits the track the motor is legal. No questions asked.

Take them apart, Check everything and seal them like at a roar race or the snowbirds.

There are already too many Companies hand winding stuff now which in my opnion is against the spirit of the Spec rules. Now they can handwind them and still cheat and as long as they dont get caught they are ok.

Thats BS.

MOTOR TECH IS NECESSARY TO CREATE A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

I'm not even going to talk about the even bigger discrepency of going from the Middle class to mod this is going to create.
I agree!

I am not a fan of boost, but I am a huge fan of rules. I think that IIC not having motor tech rules and stricter speedo rules is a mistake and causes more issues than it avoids. It does take a little bit of time, but is worth it in my opinion...

Spec racing by it's nature requires more rules and enforcement or people WILL cheat and try to bend the rules. If no one is enforcing the rules then they might as well not even exist.

I honestly want to be inconvenienced by rules and enforcement...I will gladly wait in line to have my motor, battery, Speed control tech inspected if this will help to ensure that everyone was on a even playing field. It would be fun to know my final outcome had to do with my ability to drive and setup my car rather then other people's ability to not follow or enforce the rules.

13.5 non-boosted 1/12th scale is quite fun and I think in the end will be a great class with great drivers. If the Speed matters to some people then run mod and enjoy going fast. I don't care how fast the motors are, it is about making my car the fastest over the course of the run compared to all of my competitors. The outright speed is irrelevant to me...
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:00 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
Oh jeez yeah I thought you were talking about club race level. Yeah I will be at the Nats and I as well hope we get throughly teched for motor. But control one you get your motor back etc will be hard. I would love to see a handout race. Now the iic offers it but with getting back into the hobby and prepping for the nats im tapped to try to travel this year but if I spent the money to travel and found out I was in the b due to one guy running an illegal motor id be beyond pissed off.
A rule ROAR uses at the nats that actually makes a lot of sense is that you can only tech in 3 motors per class.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #26
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Motor tech + sealing -- or handout sealed motors. This is the only way to make things fair.

I'm one of the suckers that felt like he got worked over last year in 17.5 1/12th -- although unintentionally by another racer using a 13.5 in the 17.5 blinky 1/12th class. A simple tech / sealing prior to round 1 would have resolved a lot of drama and waisted time ..
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #27
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I realize that boost is gone because enough people needed an excuse to why they suck.
That's not the reason. People voted with their feet and stopped racing.

Maybe they stopped racing because they sucked, but if you want to race, you need crappy drivers to beat don't you? The best way to have the talentless attempt to race rc cars is to let them feel like they might have a chance. Don't they show you how easy it is to win a 3 card monte game before they take your money? You can't be so obvious.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:20 PM   #28
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Wow guys, I didn't want to start another flame thread on boost vs no boost for ROAR, it just seemed to me that in 1/12 scale at the IIC, the perfect combo of 17.5 being four laps slower than boosted 13.5 being four laps slower than mod was worth preserving. Touring car is another deal, but it seemed a waste to me to slow 13.5 down with no boost. I kinda liked the idea of having 1s Super Stock be 10.5, but we don't need another bitchin-about-boost-politics site. Boost is dead at ROAR, and their is no 13.5 ROAR classes anymore, I was just sad to see it go from the IIC.

I wanted, and still want, to potentially get the IIC coordinators to change 1/12 Super Stock to boost, not just more complaining about ROAR. If thats all this is I'm going to do what I can to get this thing deleted, and apologize for ever having done it.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #29
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This year will be my first IIC... can someone explain the extent of motor/battery/esc tech that takes place?

At the Carpet Nats this year, the resistance of each coil was measured and then the case screws were sealed and the motor was stickered. I didn't see any motors disassembled in pre-tech, though.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #30
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Wow guys, I didn't want to start another flame thread on boost vs no boost for ROAR, it just seemed to me that in 1/12 scale at the IIC, the perfect combo of 17.5 being four laps slower than boosted 13.5 being four laps slower than mod was worth preserving. Touring car is another deal, but it seemed a waste to me to slow 13.5 down with no boost. I kinda liked the idea of having 1s Super Stock be 10.5, but we don't need another bitchin-about-boost-politics site. Boost is dead at ROAR, and their is no 13.5 ROAR classes anymore, I was just sad to see it go from the IIC.

I wanted, and still want, to potentially get the IIC coordinators to change 1/12 Super Stock to boost, not just more complaining about ROAR. If thats all this is I'm going to do what I can to get this thing deleted, and apologize for ever having done it.
+1
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