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Old 06-07-2012, 10:29 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Hexonox View Post
What would stop someone from pulling the "GTB 2" sticker off the side of that esc and re-applying it an actual Kintic esc from which the GTB 2 cases was re-sourced?
so now the GTB2 needs to be banned on the spec TC / SPX logic
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:38 AM   #92
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He knows. I have told him the day they make the esc to fit the rules, I will be more than happy to get it into the approved section.

I hope they will fill this area since there is apparently a huge dissatisfied lot of racers waiting to spend their money.
I guess it would be impossible to have timing and boost off the table but still have brakes and throttle profile adjustable by hot wire. Yeah thats what I thought. You have to be rid of the whole PC interface. Still if its tiny, smooth and easily adjustable on the buttons then I would go for it.

I bought a Citrix for USGT but I think I will use the RS pro on blinky instead. I never win, but I might as well enjoy playing with the nicer toys.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #93
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Doug knew what he was doing when he handed it to you. VTA has flourished under your direction and I think you got it through some of its toughest times. Today I think VTA is better than ever. And at least as good as when it was conceived as a four cell 27 turn class. There are a lot of guys out there and a few girls that have spent many hours enjoying racing under the guidelines that you have forged. Don't let a hand full of malcontents sour what you have done. Its a masterpiece.
Well said !!! Don't get caught up in it Rob. This IS NOT a wide spread issue. Bottom line, if you don't like the class well enough to be involved and you believe you can do something better.....take the bull by the horns, start your own class and make it what you want.
And YES,there's a big difference between RANTING and CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSION. If you had something constructive to discuss with Rob, you should've PM'd or emailed him to DISCUSS it and state your case with facts that indicate the wishes of a larger group of people.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:22 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
so off me and back to topic....

some of you think that a open motor and ROAR esc would increase VTA as a whole...?..

if so, chime in...
No. But I think if there was an option besides Novak that did not provide a performance advantage, I think it would. The Hobbywing Juststock ESC as an example, and I am sure there are many others. Chris does not want to put an LRP SXX V2 TC Spec in his car, he just does not want to run Novak.

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PS you know I'm just kidding about Myron


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The Beauty of VTA is that you can place a $600 T3 or BD5 on the track with your $500 radio and stand a fairly good chance of getting waxed by a kid with a $60 Spektrum pushing a TC3 and not even using a ballistic. JOY!!! It does have its poetry.
Not on our track. The guys doing the waxing are running T3 2012 chassis with upgrades, dyno'd motors, IR tested batteries, and $100+ servos. Does not mean they might have an off night, but it would be a very rare person (Myron and his vampire skills) that will beat the top drivers at our track with a TC3. Keep in mind, our top drivers also got smacked around by Myron and several of the Nashville crew, so it's not like our top are even all that amazing.

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Just more complaining...i know i can go faster with brand x over brand y's esc....I need more battery...i need i need.... Leave the rules alone...they work.
The issue is not speed, the issue is if someone wants to run something other then Novak. Realistically there is 1 ESC option (the Cirtix, the LRP I do not consider as it is discontinued), and no motor options.

My personal opinion, is that open ESC (no timing) would be a bad thing. Having another option or 2 that was non Novak I think would be a good option, for ESC and motor.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #95
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wow 2 more pages....

okay...

LRP as well as others are aware that a USVTA esc is needed. AE is aware of the market in VTA which brings the TC4 Club and 5000 Wolfpack battery..(VTA Trim)...Me and Rob have discussed this as well as Dirla about the LRP esc thing. And Ive sent info that was given to me to "PPL"..lol...doesnt mean it will get done...but its on the table....Tekin as posted earlier is aware as well.

Ive had ppl pm me about problems with Novak anything, and Ive put them in the right direction, or contacted somebody for them, and it got resolved. Novak understands what issues are out there. It sometimes takes time to catch it and get it back on track. If you have a issue, pm me, and Ill make sure you get a hear that will listen

As far as case swapping...I guess this can be done with anything, to some point...but if you feel the need to do that, Ill still race you and wax that azz....The Zero was in referenxe to USGT, which is legal for that class. But not for VTA cause it still has boost feature. Case aside

In the right hands a older car and equipment can be faster than a 2012 Xray or TC6.1. But there are guys out there that are looking for any advantage...if Im a B-main racer, and Im looking for a few tenth to get into the A...is it wrong for me to buy a new chassis?...no it isnt, but dont get pissed if you are still in the B or lower. Ive seen this with guys over the last 3-4 years. They get into VTA running a TC4 with basic esc and motor and think thats cool. But after a few races, thay need more, and more, and more...before its all over he has a 2012 Xray, GTB2 Xdrive, Ballastic Race 25.5 FULLY Loaded(illegal) and all the newest crap...and guess what...the other guy with the TC3, Goose RM 25.5 SS, is still lapping him...FACTS

The options for esc will get wider, once the companys start to see VTA as a worthy class to spend the money to invest. You guys have to realize that as much negative things said about Novak, and HPI(tires), they were willing to take a chance on the US VTA when others said no, or didnt care. They isnt a Monopoly...its who stepped up 1st. Other Co, didnt see VTA as nothing bot a bunch of bashers with "ZERO" race skills. But it wasnt just the "race" companys, it was also race promoters and events that washed us under the bus...cause they said "its not racing"....Ive got pm's and even emails where I personally tried to get some of this changed over the last couple of years...and now almost 5 years later, they are trying to get on the bandwaggon...Really?

Like posted before...Im not sponsored by Novak or HPI, but I know who has and who hasnt been there for the class I love to race...and thats all I need.

As far as attendance...We VTA or USVTA racers have 2 major events per year, The Scale Nats, and the Southern Nats...FACT either one(pick) will have more USVTA legal cars from more states than any ROAR legal VTA race, anywhere. Point...if the ROAR rules are so much better, why is the attendance very low compared to these other events....FACT..Ive been to some ROAR events, and never seen a ROAR legal car win..its always the US VTA car.....Oh I know, promotion promotion promotion ...maybe..but that seems to answer the same question about who cares, and who doesnt...

Maybe the ROAR Pav Nats will break the mode cause of the location, but we will see. Ill be there with my AE TC6.1 RSD upgrades,LRP SXX V2, Reedy 6500 65C and Reedy Sonic 25.5 built with all the goodies...CYA there....if Im fast now....YUMMMY
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:38 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
so now the GTB2 needs to be banned on the spec TC / SPX logic
quit starting stuff...the case swapping is possible...with alot of esc's...but you have a paper weight(BD), so now what?

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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
I guess it would be impossible to have timing and boost off the table but still have brakes and throttle profile adjustable by hot wire. Yeah thats what I thought. You have to be rid of the whole PC interface. Still if its tiny, smooth and easily adjustable on the buttons then I would go for it.

I bought a Citrix for USGT but I think I will use the RS pro on blinky instead. I never win, but I might as well enjoy playing with the nicer toys.
alot of guys that wanted a Tekin, went with the Citrix, and seem happy with it...the issue is the Novaks seem to win more...and that gets them thinking its the better ESC

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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
The same would happen with any blinky profile esc and a spec motor.
it does...everyday in TC and other classes

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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Doug knew what he was doing when he handed it to you. VTA has flourished under your direction and I think you got it through some of its toughest times. Today I think VTA is better than ever. And at least as good as when it was conceived as a four cell 27 turn class. There are a lot of guys out there and a few girls that have spent many hours enjoying racing under the guidelines that you have forged. Don't let a hand full of malcontents sour what you have done. Its a masterpiece.
+1

final note...the complaint used to be that the GTB and Havok was to BIG, remember that...they didnt fit on my chassis....lol...I missed those days.. and then came the Speed Passion...

easy fix to all of these....contact your favorite ESC company, and tell them that the USVTA is the fastest growing Onroad class in the country...and "I" would like to run your products in this class, but you have to get it approved by the US VTA 1st...do you have a demo?....Ive done it with tires and batteries, and Im doing it again with esc's...but Im one person..imagine if all of you that have come on here email,called,or sent a letter to these companies...we might get somewhere...or at least a new esc to the list

Show the RC world that you back the US VTA and get them to change for "YOUR" class, not your class to change for them...they work for us, when we buy their products...lets see how much they got "YOUR" back

what you reading this for...get to it...Dear Tekin,......
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:11 AM   #97
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:26 PM   #98
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Well according to the wonderful techs at Associated; they verbally confirmed that the "boost 0" mode and the other settings that are available do not manipulate the timing of the motor. The statement describing the functionality of that mode were not translated properly from the original manual and that the terminology was not accurate. The "boost 0" mode and its adjustments function exactly thae same as Novak's "Drive Frequency" settings or "feel" as it is commonly refered to. So in comparison the GTB 2; having a "minimum drive" setting would fall closer to timing manipulation. Not that I had expected anyone to give the SPX Zero an un biased testing as opposed to mearly perusing the instruction leaflet. If soemone had actully tested this esc and tested the alternate "feel" profiles they would have found that in an on road car running a stock motor; it would feel slower. The alternate profiles are designed for use with a modified motor to reduce the initial torque applied at initial throttle input; so in essence if the esc was manipulating timing it would actually be retarding the timing setting on initial throttle input. If you doubt me plaese make the call to Associated; I'm sure you will find that I am correct. So thank you for banning a perfectly compliant esc because of a slight mis-interprtation of the English language.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:35 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
No. But I think if there was an option besides Novak that did not provide a performance advantage, I think it would. The Hobbywing Juststock ESC as an example, and I am sure there are many others. Chris does not want to put an LRP SXX V2 TC Spec in his car, he just does not want to run Novak.







Not on our track. The guys doing the waxing are running T3 2012 chassis with upgrades, dyno'd motors, IR tested batteries, and $100+ servos. Does not mean they might have an off night, but it would be a very rare person (Myron and his vampire skills) that will beat the top drivers at our track with a TC3. Keep in mind, our top drivers also got smacked around by Myron and several of the Nashville crew, so it's not like our top are even all that amazing.



The issue is not speed, the issue is if someone wants to run something other then Novak. Realistically there is 1 ESC option (the Cirtix, the LRP I do not consider as it is discontinued), and no motor options.

My personal opinion, is that open ESC (no timing) would be a bad thing. Having another option or 2 that was non Novak I think would be a good option, for ESC and motor.
I know that trinity has a 25.5 they sell as a crawler motor. I know for fact a local tried one in his vta, and it was no faster than the novaks.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Hexonox View Post
Well according to the wonderful techs at Associated; they verbally confirmed that the "boost 0" mode and the other settings that are available do not manipulate the timing of the motor. The statement describing the functionality of that mode were not translated properly from the original manual and that the terminology was not accurate. The "boost 0" mode and its adjustments function exactly thae same as Novak's "Drive Frequency" settings or "feel" as it is commonly refered to. So in comparison the GTB 2; having a "minimum drive" setting would fall closer to timing manipulation. Not that I had expected anyone to give the SPX Zero an un biased testing as opposed to mearly perusing the instruction leaflet. If soemone had actully tested this esc and tested the alternate "feel" profiles they would have found that in an on road car running a stock motor; it would feel slower. The alternate profiles are designed for use with a modified motor to reduce the initial torque applied at initial throttle input; so in essence if the esc was manipulating timing it would actually be retarding the timing setting on initial throttle input. If you doubt me plaese make the call to Associated; I'm sure you will find that I am correct. So thank you for banning a perfectly compliant esc because of a slight mis-interprtation of the English language.
You know, as a race director, its attitudes like this that hack me off. I'm supposed to search the world, looking for every available ESC to test and approve because some guy in east BFE wants to run it. Then take the time to set them all up the O-scope to determine whether they're legal or not. How about this, if the company wants their stuff to be legal, how about they submit it for approval. Same thing everybody does with ROAR without any issues or heartache. While you were on the phone with those wonderful techs (and don't get me started on whether techs as a whole really know what they're talking about) you should have asked them to submit their ESC to VTA for approval. If enough people want to run them and ask, I'm sure the potential sales would offset the cost of sending in a test unit.

And before you ask for the simple use of ROAR's Sportsman Speedo list, we've all got a horror story or two of ROAR dropping the ball on rules legislation. If they're going to put their name and the reputation of a class/series/organization on the line, you'll have to forgive a race director for not putting complete faith in ROAR's judgement.
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #101
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You know, as a race director, its attitudes like this that hack me off. I'm supposed to search the world, looking for every available ESC to test and approve because some guy in east BFE wants to run it. Then take the time to set them all up the O-scope to determine whether they're legal or not. How about this, if the company wants their stuff to be legal, how about they submit it for approval. Same thing everybody does with ROAR without any issues or heartache. While you were on the phone with those wonderful techs (and don't get me started on whether techs as a whole really know what they're talking about) you should have asked them to submit their ESC to VTA for approval. If enough people want to run them and ask, I'm sure the potential sales would offset the cost of sending in a test unit.

And before you ask for the simple use of ROAR's Sportsman Speedo list, we've all got a horror story or two of ROAR dropping the ball on rules legislation. If they're going to put their name and the reputation of a class/series/organization on the line, you'll have to forgive a race director for not putting complete faith in ROAR's judgement.
+1

final note...the complaint used to be that the GTB and Havok was to BIG, remember that...they didnt fit on my chassis....lol...I missed those days.. and then came the Speed Passion...

easy fix to all of these....contact your favorite ESC company, and tell them that the USVTA is the fastest growing Onroad class in the country...and "I" would like to run your products in this class, but you have to get it approved by the US VTA 1st...do you have a demo?....Ive done it with tires and batteries, and Im doing it again with esc's...but Im one person..imagine if all of you that have come on here email,called,or sent a letter to these companies...we might get somewhere...or at least a new esc to the list

Show the RC world that you back the US VTA and get them to change for "YOUR" class, not your class to change for them...they work for us, when we buy their products...lets see how much they got "YOUR" back

what you reading this for...get to it...Dear Tekin,......
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Old 06-08-2012, 02:55 PM   #102
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Detailed Part Description:

Bringing back "True Stock Racing"

In today's stock racing, the latest stock speed controls have achieved near modified-level high speeds, making them difficult for beginners to race. With the brand new LRP SPX Zero, LRP offers an easy solution. The new SPX Zero packages the latest brushless technology with "normal" speed and easy operation.

Boost Zero Mode restricts the power to set limits while still allowing the motor to run very efficiently. Every racer will be able to match the optimal speed control setting to the track according to their driving ability-just start at zero timing and move up. With the LRP SPX Zero, the unfair differences in performance between stock speed controls is now a thing of the past, and we can once again look forward to exciting and close racing on the race track.

• Boost Zero Mode: No speed control timing for true stock racing-easily indicated by a flashing LED for inspectors
• Advanced Digital with 4 adjustable modes: Fully adjustable AutoCell System, Power Profiles, Initial Brake, and Auto-Brake
• 6 Power Profiles: Great tuneability for all track conditions
• Internal Temp Check System: Allows you to read out the maximum internal temperature the speed control reached
• Sensored Brushless Technology: Results in perfect control at low and high RPMs, as well as perfect brake control
• Forward/Brake: Uncompromising forward/brake race design without reverse for outstanding race performance
• AutoCell System: NiMH/NiCd/LiPo automatic adaptation

Magazine Review
With the Boost Zero Mode, the power stays in a constant performance limit, and every racer will quickly and without any problems be able to find the optimal speed control setting for each racetrack. The significant difference in performance between speed controls will now be a thing of the past and hopefully help to level the playing field
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:01 PM   #103
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:09 PM   #104
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Back on topic. No woes. The rules help the class not hinder it. Having equipment issues and refusing to use certain brands are opinions. I've had a couple of bad sensor boards in 2 brand new Balistic 25.5s. Charlie had me new boards in 3 days. The motors had consecutive serial numbers and suffered the same symptoms. Once repaired and heat cycled they run great. I have never had issues with ESCs much like Darkside. Zero dead shorts or smoke outs. By the sounds of it, there are a lot of SMT components either being floated off PCBs or burned up from overheating during installation soldering. I go through a lot of flux. I put a drop on every joint I heat up every single time I touch an iron to it. It leaves a nice finished surface too, free of burs and rough edges. I use flux even when desoldering. A good iron goes a long way too. Keep the temps up and the contact time low. The heat will be where you want it and not be using the rest of the electronics as a heat sink.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:43 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Hexonox View Post
Well according to the wonderful techs at Associated; they verbally confirmed that the "boost 0" mode and the other settings that are available do not manipulate the timing of the motor. The statement describing the functionality of that mode were not translated properly from the original manual and that the terminology was not accurate. The "boost 0" mode and its adjustments function exactly thae same as Novak's "Drive Frequency" settings or "feel" as it is commonly refered to. So in comparison the GTB 2; having a "minimum drive" setting would fall closer to timing manipulation. Not that I had expected anyone to give the SPX Zero an un biased testing as opposed to mearly perusing the instruction leaflet. If soemone had actully tested this esc and tested the alternate "feel" profiles they would have found that in an on road car running a stock motor; it would feel slower. The alternate profiles are designed for use with a modified motor to reduce the initial torque applied at initial throttle input; so in essence if the esc was manipulating timing it would actually be retarding the timing setting on initial throttle input. If you doubt me plaese make the call to Associated; I'm sure you will find that I am correct. So thank you for banning a perfectly compliant esc because of a slight mis-interprtation of the English language.

It comes down to me not plunking down $150 on everything that might be legal. The way we test escs is either we get an example from someone who owns one, or we get one from the manufacturer. I always read the manual first, and when I see timing advance mentioned, i rule it out. If LRP had an unfortunate translation in their manual, that is not something I can not control. I would love to put this ESC on the list if this is the case that it is a non timing esc.

I will look into this immediately. Honestly, though, i wish AE/LRP had made it known this esc had no timing available at all. It would most likely be on the list already.
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