R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-07-2012, 03:05 PM   #46
ASM
Tech Master
 
ASM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Palm Bay, FL
Posts: 1,493
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Really? When I asked in the old VTA thread about battery IR rating regarding punch throughout a race, I was told to learn to drive, batteries don't matter, and Myron is running on a pack of AA's he found in a dumpster and can still win.

When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.

When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.

When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.



Just to stand up a tad for Chris here, he quit VTA because of those issues (and I think 4 or 5 burned up ESC's), as well as some other issues with the lack of driver courtesy. He went to USGT (very similar makeup to VTA, less restrictions) all for those reasons. Now, as our local club supports Thunder RC and the upcoming Southern Nats, many of us that had changed to USGT and TC, want to work on VTA so we can come support this event. That is why it is an issue now, because we are all looking at returning to VTA, to support VTA, and he has (my opinion) legitimate concerns about the quality of Novak products (given that one blew up just last night for another of our club) and the lack of other options.

Why is it that if anyone has a concern, they are told to get lost and race something else? No wonder onroad is struggling so much...
Look, I simply went by what he posted. Nowhere does he state that 4 or 5 ESC's were burnt up. Secondly, I never told him to get lost - in fact one of the suggestions was to create rules for your track that work for your group. That was suggested by others as well.

Unless your really overheating these units, I'm not sure how you can go through 4 or 5 of them. Exactly what gearing is being attempted? It doesn't get much hotter than central Florida - and I've yet to see one ESC get burnt up at our track. Maybe that's just luck.

When someone posts a thread stating all opinons are welcomed, you shouldn't feel a need to come to anyone's defense or necessarily be worrying about what others post. Opinions were asked for. I simply had a hard time following his logic - now that you have provided the insight that he's managed to burn up a handful of ESC's, it's certainly clear that another class, or adopting custom rules, or using a fixed gear ratio is potentially the way for him and/or your group to go. Personally, I don't see a reason for USVTA to change what they have in place.
__________________
Scott Meeks

2016 & 2017 ROAR Region 4 VTA Champion
USVTA Member #116
ASM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #47
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 868
Trader Rating: 12 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoods34 View Post
Saying this as a neutral spectator.... I haven't laughed this hard in awhile!
Agreed.
rm25x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:13 PM   #48
Tech Elite
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,145
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
What do you want to know?

99% of the time the biggest problem with cars i see are:

*Camber all messed up

*ride height not 5mm on both ends to start

*cross weight wrong -- this is easy to fix, but I'd either have to find a video or make one to show you the easiest way.

*droop all messed up

Also make sure the body is cut out properly (and you have mounted your driver figure ).

Then you move on to a working rubber tire setup. From that point, now you have options to tune that setup.

Start with:

*spring change up or down one rate. Sometimes this is too much and you can stand up or lay your shocks in. Generally, laying in is more traction, stand up less, but it also affects progression. Laying in the rear is usually more rotation, stand up squares up more.

*longer or shorter camber link. Shorter quicker reaction, longer more rolling. More angle= more the car wants to "dig in", but can also traction roll or have a funny break away depending on traction level and surface.

*Shock oil: this is temperature dependent...changes how quickly the car reacts, but more of an overall feel. Also a way to change how the different ends of the car work.

*spool or diff? Spools can be faster, but make the car harder to drive. Gear diff w/putty or similar is close but more forgiving.

*what about weight? Sometimes these cars like a little nose weight to keep them steering on power.

Now what about your tires? are they broken in? Do you have the right sauce for the track?? You can glue the side walls for high traction-this is not a bandaid, but a very legitimate tuning option.
Excellent! Thank you!

My experience is limited, do you find the car needs more or less camber compared to TC tires due to the wider tires and uneven sidewalls? How much variance do you see between front and rear as "normal" do to the staggered widths?

I was told that ride height should be 6-7 usually? Is this chassis or body? I find that if they are both the same, that I get rub on the sides under hard cornering. Some say VTA should be set up very soft, others very hard, i have found soft seems to help me roll corners better, but no idea what the "fast guys" do.

Corner balancing? Most balance left/right (hudy balance pins) but I do not see anyone balancing across corners. Most seem to prefer a bias front or rear for either steering or rotation. I am not skilled enough to tell the difference in most cases, but I have not seen anyone corner balancing.

Droop messed up as in too much or too little? What is a good starting point?

Breaking in tires? How? Myron told me his are just as fast bald as new. Some at the track scrub them on asphalt to take the shinyness away. I usually put it down, and after 2 battery packs, start adjusting setups to the tires, full sauce, and see where it goes from there. Our club requires full width visible tread for our series races which limits us. Does full tread lead to more overheating issues with a smaller contact patch? I have not seen anyone glue the sidewalls (minus messing up with the CA and getting it in unwanted places) and was not sure that was used much with rubber. How does that affect the car with different inner and outer sidewalls?

Regarding weight, I was told that some of our club members were laughed at last year at the Nats because their cars all came in near 1550, and all the locals were 1650+. Sort of the theory that the Losi 4x4 short course trucks and why they have an advantage over the lighter SC10's. Slower to get moving, easier to roll the corners, and more likely to come out ahead in car to car contact. A lot of that weight seemed to be mounted in the extreme front or rear of the bodies as well which seemed odd to me, but no one could explain it to me.

As Joe said, this really is not the right placer for this, but trust me, I have asked lots of questions on these forums. Many of them are really dumb, and I am sure beneath many of the readers, or have been asked many times before. But trust me, my reading comprehension is fine. What I see most of the time when I ask questions is that Myron is stock or nearly so, and his car is always perfect. Yes, much of this is probably standard TC setup stuff (I am told this is an entry level class, so I assumed entry level questions were acceptable). There are also specifics to VTA, as you need to roll the corners more, maintain speed, and the tires are both treaded and staggered which make them very different from other styles of tires.

If you would like to insult me or my reading comrehension, please do so in PM's and spare everyone else from it.
__________________
Desoto Racing * Serpent America * Boca Bearings

"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
orcadigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:23 PM   #49
Tech Elite
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,145
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASM View Post
Look, I simply went by what he posted. Nowhere does he state that 4 or 5 ESC's were burnt up. Secondly, I never told him to get lost - in fact one of the suggestions was to create rules for your track that work for your group. That was suggested by others as well.

Unless your really overheating these units, I'm not sure how you can go through 4 or 5 of them. Exactly what gearing is being attempted? It doesn't get much hotter than central Florida - and I've yet to see one ESC get burnt up at our track. Maybe that's just luck.

When someone posts a thread stating all opinons are welcomed, you shouldn't feel a need to come to anyone's defense or necessarily be worrying about what others post. Opinions were asked for. I simply had a hard time following his logic - now that you have provided the insight that he's managed to burn up a handful of ESC's, it's certainly clear that another class, or adopting custom rules, or using a fixed gear ratio is potentially the way for him and/or your group to go. Personally, I don't see a reason for USVTA to change what they have in place.
I haven't burnt up anything Novak either, but I am getting a little tired of smelling it at the track I do not understand the Novak thing, as I have seen brand new installs burst 8 feet down the track, and ones that worked fine for weeks/months go up without warning. I lost 3 Tekin RS's in a 6 month period, which is why I run LRP now. The issue is that in every other class, we have that choice. The choices in VTA, specifically motors, there is 1 manufacturer. Good, bad, indifferent. I do disagree with Chris about any speedo in blinky, but I think there are more options then a discontinued LRP, the Cirtix, and half of the Novak line.

As I said, the rules are the rules, and I will conform to them, because I want to be able to race other places, and they are what they are. I personally dislike the muscle car bodies, just not my thing. Oh well, VTA is where the people are at, and it's more fun to race with people then by myself.

I do apologize for jumping on you about this, and as I have raced with Chris, and in fact pit across from him and have since our track opened, I can get a little defensive. I love racing, love onroad, and want it to succeed. VTA seems to be a proven and great way to start heading the sport in that direction.

We are running the USVTA rules as that is what we are heading down to race and support in September. Chris doesn't want to buy more Novak products, and with his experiences, I cannot blame him. I also slap him if he gets near my Cirtix.
__________________
Desoto Racing * Serpent America * Boca Bearings

"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
orcadigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #50
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Excellent! Thank you!

My experience is limited, do you find the car needs more or less camber compared to TC tires due to the wider tires and uneven sidewalls? How much variance do you see between front and rear as "normal" do to the staggered widths?
We usually just run 1.5 -2*. A lot of new guys have no camber or are even going in the wrong direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I was told that ride height should be 6-7 usually? Is this chassis or body? I find that if they are both the same, that I get rub on the sides under hard cornering. Some say VTA should be set up very soft, others very hard, i have found soft seems to help me roll corners better, but no idea what the "fast guys" do.
I run at 5mm on carpet. It depends on your car somewhat as well due to the chassis width. Narrower cars can get away with less. i like to slam the body as much as i can until it rubs.

Soft or hard also depends on the track. If it's a carpet track, stiffer can be faster if the traction is up, but this also heats the tires up. There is a point that the tires get too hot and start picking up fiber from the track surface. This is usually not a concern unless A) it's a long race or B) the track has a tendency to cause the tires to pick up gunk. Some tracks do this because of the carpet, and it happens to almost all classes, but especially the 1/12 cars. In that case, it's imperative to set the car very softly.

Softer can be better as well, but if the car is rolling too much and binding up in the corners, that will not be fast at all. A lot of times, this is when the sway bars come into play to let the car be soft in ride without too much loss of corner speed. In fact, a lot of times a big rear bar will work very well if you have to run the car soft.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Corner balancing? Most balance left/right (hudy balance pins) but I do not see anyone balancing across corners. Most seem to prefer a bias front or rear for either steering or rotation. I am not skilled enough to tell the difference in most cases, but I have not seen anyone corner balancing.
I'm talking about using a tweak station or balancing on a board to ensure that the shock collars are adjusted properly and the droop is set.

I will make a video of this since I can't seem to find one on the internet. Basically, you're rocking one half of the car onto the setup board, and seeing which tire lands first for droop, and then lifting the chassis of the board and bringing the chassis back down to see which side of the chassis touches first to adjust the shock collars. This is a very easy way to make sure your car tracks straight and turns equally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Droop messed up as in too much or too little? What is a good starting point?
As above, #1 even side to side. The best place to start is about 2mm more than ride height on both ends for carpet, and maybe 3mm for asphalt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Breaking in tires? How? Myron told me his are just as fast bald as new. Some at the track scrub them on asphalt to take the shinyness away. I usually put it down, and after 2 battery packs, start adjusting setups to the tires, full sauce, and see where it goes from there. Our club requires full width visible tread for our series races which limits us. Does full tread lead to more overheating issues with a smaller contact patch? I have not seen anyone glue the sidewalls (minus messing up with the CA and getting it in unwanted places) and was not sure that was used much with rubber. How does that affect the car with different inner and outer sidewalls?
Most people up this way will either run the car on cement for a few minutes to take the shine off (last minute emergency way) or use something Like Trinity Buggy grip or even goo gone to soften the tires up initially. You can sauce them with those type of products and put them in a bag overnight. This is also how to deal with "hard" batches of tires....it happens some times. But after a few runs, the typical tire doping routine will bring the tires in nicely. Most carpet tracks are either Paragon or Jack the Gripper/SXT, and after 3-4 weeks of running the tires may start to be TOO soft, at which point it's best to save them for outside. For asphalt, Gravity RC LG2 works very well with ta rubber. You just rub it on at let air dry and it is very good.

As far as glueing the sidewalls, if your car starts to traction roll, this is the first thing to try. It is the easiest and fastest thing, and you don't have to change the setup. In fact even if your car isn't traction rolling, it' can be helpful to "calm it down".

Don't worry about the sidewall differences, it's really no concern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Regarding weight, I was told that some of our club members were laughed at last year at the Nats because their cars all came in near 1550, and all the locals were 1650+. Sort of the theory that the Losi 4x4 short course trucks and why they have an advantage over the lighter SC10's. Slower to get moving, easier to roll the corners, and more likely to come out ahead in car to car contact. A lot of that weight seemed to be mounted in the extreme front or rear of the bodies as well which seemed odd to me, but no one could explain it to me.
I don't know who was laughing, but as you add weight to the cars, they become easier to drive, and also win out more in any bumping matches that may happen. Trying to get weight out of the car really is not a huge concern. I have pointed out before that when we tested to try to determine minimum weights, the more we added, the faster the car went. They just got easier to drive. But some people complain about having to add lead, and how much room that takes.

The other thing is that adding lead towards the front helps maintain front end traction. These cars tend to push, and on power steering is KEY to corner speed, especially in underpowered classes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
As Joe said, this really is not the right placer for this, but trust me, I have asked lots of questions on these forums. Many of them are really dumb, and I am sure beneath many of the readers, or have been asked many times before. But trust me, my reading comprehension is fine. What I see most of the time when I ask questions is that Myron is stock or nearly so, and his car is always perfect. Yes, much of this is probably standard TC setup stuff (I am told this is an entry level class, so I assumed entry level questions were acceptable). There are also specifics to VTA, as you need to roll the corners more, maintain speed, and the tires are both treaded and staggered which make them very different from other styles of tires.
the staggered width issue is mostly what causes the push

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
If you would like to insult me or my reading comrehension, please do so in PM's and spare everyone else from it.
Uhh that's for your buddy who didn't want me posting the information in this thread. Not you. I was pointing out that you asked.

signed,
The Keyboard Cowboy
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #51
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Really? When I asked in the old VTA thread about battery IR rating regarding punch throughout a race, I was told to learn to drive, batteries don't matter, and Myron is running on a pack of AA's he found in a dumpster and can still win.

When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.

When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.

When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.
Your #1 problem is listening to anything Myron says
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #52
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,569
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I typed a big long thing, but it's not worth the fight. I like VTA, the class and the idea. I dislike that people here always talk down to myself and others that question anything, or god forbid ask for help to go faster.

All of you who can run with Myron are skilled drivers (you have to be to run with him, as I believe Myron is a very good driver). Why when people ask for help, they get snubbed? I have never seen any advice about car setup, weight balance, corner speed, braking mechanics, or any of the things that might actually be helpful. This is supposed to be an entry level class according to half the people here, but then there is zero help or advice given to those people, and their questions about rules or anything else gets them ridiculed.

If you want to be competitve in VTA, then obviously VTA is not the class for you.

It's this attitude that pushes me away from VTA. I am tired of being told I suck, and that if I want to not suck, i should go run something else (other then the entry level class ).

Myron, just let me know if I am not welcome at the Southern Nats, as I am planning on coming (and making the best showing I can somewhere down in the D or E main).
you and everyone is very well welcomed to the 2012 US VTA Southern Nationals....I have a very serious job, and its not RC cars...

I try and keep negative ppl off the threads as do most of us that are trying to grow and help with the class. But Im not the boss, and am no way running nothing...Im just like anybody else...I race VTA cause I love to Race VTA...Period...there isnt a hook to it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Really? When I asked in the old VTA thread about battery IR rating regarding punch throughout a race, I was told to learn to drive, batteries don't matter, and Myron is running on a pack of AA's he found in a dumpster and can still win.

When I asked about FDR, and how some people were running very aggressive FDR's (3.0-3.4 seem aggressive to me), I was told to learn to drive, FDR does not matter, and Myron runs a 4.0 FDR on a TC3 with 1 wheel and a broken chassis and still wins.

When I asked about motor dyno's and the variance in numbers on Novak motors and what they mean, I was told to learn to drive, the motors are all the same, and Myron found his motor in a crackerjack box and it runs on belly button lint and still wins.

When I asked about losing rear end traction and suspecting I was overheating the rear tires, I was told to learn to drive, the tires work the same no matter what, and Myron skinned Chuck Norris alive and used his hide as inserts for his tires which is why he always wins.



Just to stand up a tad for Chris here, he quit VTA because of those issues (and I think 4 or 5 burned up ESC's), as well as some other issues with the lack of driver courtesy. He went to USGT (very similar makeup to VTA, less restrictions) all for those reasons. Now, as our local club supports Thunder RC and the upcoming Southern Nats, many of us that had changed to USGT and TC, want to work on VTA so we can come support this event. That is why it is an issue now, because we are all looking at returning to VTA, to support VTA, and he has (my opinion) legitimate concerns about the quality of Novak products (given that one blew up just last night for another of our club) and the lack of other options.

Why is it that if anyone has a concern, they are told to get lost and race something else? No wonder onroad is struggling so much...
thats funny...but my coaches told me not to get you...lol...so lets see whats next...I have never had an issue with any esc Ive owned...the only one ever is my Tekin RS that somebody else made act funny...I have 4 original GTB's, 2 LRP SPX, Havok 2s, Havok Pro, Mongoose, Edge, GTB2, GTB2 Xdrive, 2 Citrix, and LRP SXX v2....and all work just fine, with no issues...am I lucky?...maybe, but I havent had any issues

I agree that if a question is asked, no matter how many times, it should get a real answer...it might not be the answer you want..but an answer to your question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I haven't burnt up anything Novak either, but I am getting a little tired of smelling it at the track I do not understand the Novak thing, as I have seen brand new installs burst 8 feet down the track, and ones that worked fine for weeks/months go up without warning. I lost 3 Tekin RS's in a 6 month period, which is why I run LRP now. The issue is that in every other class, we have that choice. The choices in VTA, specifically motors, there is 1 manufacturer. Good, bad, indifferent. I do disagree with Chris about any speedo in blinky, but I think there are more options then a discontinued LRP, the Cirtix, and half of the Novak line.

As I said, the rules are the rules, and I will conform to them, because I want to be able to race other places, and they are what they are. I personally dislike the muscle car bodies, just not my thing. Oh well, VTA is where the people are at, and it's more fun to race with people then by myself.

I do apologize for jumping on you about this, and as I have raced with Chris, and in fact pit across from him and have since our track opened, I can get a little defensive. I love racing, love onroad, and want it to succeed. VTA seems to be a proven and great way to start heading the sport in that direction.

We are running the USVTA rules as that is what we are heading down to race and support in September. Chris doesn't want to buy more Novak products, and with his experiences, I cannot blame him. I also slap him if he gets near my Cirtix.
dont worry about it...when I get to the ATL...Ill make sure you get to keep my car and check it out, and Ill concentrate on putting Melvin down 2 laps with my TC3...lol...put the bike down....

and to add to all this...

I understand alot of whats being said...this thread has caused 4 pm's 12 texts and 3 phone calls...hey Im here to help with what I know about...when I tell you what Im running, its all I know...all the other things Robk posted is fairly new to me...just ask anybody at the track...but since I seem to picked up alot of speed this year, alot of questions are coming my way like Ive got something new...nah....I did the one thing that every racer needs to do...shut up and watch and listen...

right before 1st of the year I quit thinking about what I thought I knew and watched EA, Skeen, and Dirla run...I watched everything from the car to the radio and fingers and eyes. I kept my mouth closed and took notes. And then around time for the Thunder Jam/Snowbirds I was asking a ton of questions that I got honest answers that helped me get up to par. I also called and talked to the 2011 USVTA VTA and TC Champion Dave Johnson in Michigan.

After watching and listening, I started to join all the diferent things I had learned and made my own style. Which is mostly boxstock and I sway now when I race. That used to drive me nuts to see other drivers do that...but hey I see why now.

Bottom line anybody can be fast in VTA or any racing if you are willing to listen and learn from the faster racers. Along with a little dedication, you can be just as fast as anybody you are racing without worring about this and that rule
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform/OTT/1UP
Apex Raceway and Hobbies
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:27 PM   #53
Tech Elite
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,145
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Your #1 problem is listening to anything Myron says
Very helpful, and thank you!

One more. People mention the optimal FDR for a specific motor. It does not seem to be determined by temp, but by speed. Is there a way to find/measure this for someone not skilled enough to just "know" by feel? I have turned faster laps with a 3.7, lower deviation and more laps with a 3.4, but my driving is inconsistent enough to make it all somewhat meaningless.

I know I know, Myron uses a werewolf spine as a spur so his FDR can't be measured by mere mortals and I need to learn to drive.
__________________
Desoto Racing * Serpent America * Boca Bearings

"I was doing fine until about mid-corner when I ran out of talent."
orcadigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #54
Tech Elite
 
hotrodchevy14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,445
Trader Rating: 112 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
For all of you who want to know why USVTA specs one specific speed control and motor, start reading all the other threads about blinky versus open speed controls, or how people are cranking so much timing into motors they're melting down. The whole purpose of USVTA was to eliminate as many of the arguments as possible. The class is supposed to be put your car on the track and have fun! If you're here to win, you're in the wrong class.

If you don't like the rules, or want to run different motors or speed controls, then don't race this class!!! VTA is supposed to be an entry level class, and it may be time for you to move up.
I have to disagree with your saying that vta is a entry level class. I have been in rc for over 20years and I love vta, Its a great class for those of us on limited budgets.
__________________
F.O.I. A....in advance
hotrodchevy14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:35 PM   #55
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,569
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

its from a Vampire....
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform/OTT/1UP
Apex Raceway and Hobbies
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:45 PM   #56
Tech Champion
 
DARKSIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nashville-Memphis
Posts: 8,569
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

so off me and back to topic....

some of you think that a open motor and ROAR esc would increase VTA as a whole...?..

if so, chime in...
__________________
Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
Team Associated/Reedy Powered/PROTOform/OTT/1UP
Apex Raceway and Hobbies
1172 Park Ave, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
DARKSIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:47 PM   #57
Tech Champion
 
snoopyrc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tunnel Hill GA
Posts: 5,046
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Its seems like I hear the same complaints from the type of guy who says," I really like VTA BUT-----." and then we hear the list of grievances about the speed control or battery or motor rules and manufacturers, whatever it may be. What I want to know is if you like the class but these little things ruin it for you, why dont you just cultivate USGT at your local track where none of these rules are in effect but you still get a unique racing class based on a TC chassis? Or is is just more fun to stir things up and PO a mass of racers who are perfectly content with their preferred class?
__________________
www.battlefieldraceway.com Racing videos at http://www.youtube.com/snoopyrc
snoopyrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:50 PM   #58
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Winthrop harbor
Posts: 2,293
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Very helpful, and thank you!

One more. People mention the optimal FDR for a specific motor. It does not seem to be determined by temp, but by speed. Is there a way to find/measure this for someone not skilled enough to just "know" by feel? I have turned faster laps with a 3.7, lower deviation and more laps with a 3.4, but my driving is inconsistent enough to make it all somewhat meaningless.

I know I know, Myron uses a werewolf spine as a spur so his FDR can't be measured by mere mortals and I need to learn to drive.
I'll use myself and Jimmy as an example for optimum FDR.

2 completely different driver's with different styles. Tamiya TAO5/Ballistic/Cirtix (I think) vs Corally PHI/Havoc/RMF SS. Last time we ran against each other, he ran a 4.4 ish and I was at 3.4. Our "hot" laps were identical, it really comes down to personal preference. If your more of the kind of driver who likes to run in the corner hard and deep, you may be higher up in FDR to come off the corner quicker. I like more of the lazy,never lift feel, so I can get away with a lower numeric FDR.

With the variation/consistency that you have seen, it is most likely due to the fact of the lower FDR being "mellow" on the bottom but having the top end speed down the straight and thru the sweeper.
__________________
Team Novak,Gravity RC,
ercwhtsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 04:55 PM   #59
Tech Elite
 
trytowin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: on the asphalt
Posts: 2,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
so off me and back to topic....

some of you think that a open motor and ROAR esc would increase VTA as a whole...?..

if so, chime in...
To some degree, there are people that simply don't like Novak stuff.
Also, if you have a programmable esc laying around at home, why not use it ?
(ROAR approved, of course)
Then all you have is the cost of the motor.

BTW, I run a three year old GTB esc and two year old ballistic motor, neither has given me any problems.

P.S. See posting in "Asphalt Assault" thread, very recent.
__________________
I'm just here to discharge my battery.

Last edited by trytowin; 06-07-2012 at 04:57 PM. Reason: added info
trytowin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2012, 05:06 PM   #60
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,587
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Very helpful, and thank you!

One more. People mention the optimal FDR for a specific motor. It does not seem to be determined by temp, but by speed. Is there a way to find/measure this for someone not skilled enough to just "know" by feel? I have turned faster laps with a 3.7, lower deviation and more laps with a 3.4, but my driving is inconsistent enough to make it all somewhat meaningless.

I know I know, Myron uses a werewolf spine as a spur so his FDR can't be measured by mere mortals and I need to learn to drive.
It all depends...LOL
Small tracks I start at about 3.8. If I was racing on a 100'+ outdoor track, more like 3.5. A lot of this will also be determined by how good your car is. If it is pushing badly, the motor will get hot and you'll be slow. This is why some guys run faster with higher numerical ratios, the car gets out of the corner. That is another thing, if the track is all 180* turns, a 3.4 will not help you a lot.

The best approach is also to jump around a tooth or 2 during the race day to get an idea what is working. Sometimes trying some changes and going back will solidify what is happening for you.

PS you know I'm just kidding about Myron
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:21 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net