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Old 06-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #301
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Okay, I read all of this and agree it boils down to Novak and their products. I'm a newbie as my handle suggests. I've been in this for only a few months. USVTA is what hooked me. I saw the HPI Camaro at the LHS and thought, this is too COOL! I had recently got a pair of Traxxas Stampedes for my son and I to bash and thought racing would be cool. So did my son.

The guys at my LHS were very helpful and pointed me to the USVTA website and fixed me up with the right stuff to make our cars legal. They also have a track every other Sunday in the parking lot outside of the store.

The only trouble I have ever had with my Novak ESC is if the battery is a 20C, it sometimes will cog without warning. I started using 30C Venom 5000mAh packs and the problem went away. Novak states that less than 25C isn't supported so apparently there is something to this. Others at the track have had issues with their controllers requiring warranty replacement, but the two I have purchased for myself and son work just fine. No trouble with the motors either. We also have a USGT class at our track, which I may race in at some point.

The rules aren't the problem. The class has great appeal, especially to us "old guys" as we are racing the cars we grew up with. Once some other equipment meets the spec and gets approved, those who have been put off might return.

The people here and at the track have been very kind and helpful. I'm learning by leaps and bounds. The whining and bickering in the forums is not unique to this hobby. It has not put me off the class or hobby yet. In fact, I'm building a chassis to race in other classes as well.
Well said ! We need more attitudes like yours to keep usvta growing and flourishing. Welcome to USVTA !
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Old 06-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #302
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Just spent most of last night going through Novak stators and rotors at the track and did about 7 of them. They ranged from 51.5 to 58.5 on my MMS http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1961 which is a large variance if you ask me. Large enough to make a Ĺ second difference in a 13 second lap. Yes in track testing the same consistent driver couldnít go as fast This I think is one of the reasons why there is some suggestion that Novak needs some competition in the motor area. Saying that every Novak motor is the same or within close tolerance is a out and out fallacy. Thatís a 12% deviance in resistance of wire on the stator. I also put several other Novak motors on my extreme motor checker http://www.hobbypartz.com/26p-motorchecker.html and get a 21500 to 24500 range from the worse to best. Which granted can be geared. The interesting one was the difference in rotors from 1300 reading to 1450 on my epic rotor checker. http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1882 granted I didnít test these on my Turbo dyno but I think that this is what the Racers that want to race this class are complaining about. No I donít normally do this but as we are having a 1500 lap race, Ĺ a second a lap is 12.5 minutes behind at the end of the race. Or about 55 laps. Now I will make a point to say that out of the 2 best, one of the stators was over a year old and the other was brand new red wire stator. Several had the soco rotor and some had older rotors. So itís still a case of some racers in any class are still going to eek out all they can out of their equipment even if the spirit of the class is to JUST RACE.
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #303
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Just spent most of last night going through Novak stators and rotors at the track and did about 7 of them. They ranged from 51.5 to 58.5 on my MMS http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1961 which is a large variance if you ask me. Large enough to make a Ĺ second difference in a 13 second lap. Yes in track testing the same consistent driver couldnít go as fast This I think is one of the reasons why there is some suggestion that Novak needs some competition in the motor area. Saying that every Novak motor is the same or within close tolerance is a out and out fallacy. Thatís a 12% deviance in resistance of wire on the stator. I also put several other Novak motors on my extreme motor checker http://www.hobbypartz.com/26p-motorchecker.html and get a 21500 to 24500 range from the worse to best. Which granted can be geared. The interesting one was the difference in rotors from 1300 reading to 1450 on my epic rotor checker. http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1882 granted I didnít test these on my Turbo dyno but I think that this is what the Racers that want to race this class are complaining about. No I donít normally do this but as we are having a 1500 lap race, Ĺ a second a lap is 12.5 minutes behind at the end of the race. Or about 55 laps. Now I will make a point to say that out of the 2 best, one of the stators was over a year old and the other was brand new red wire stator. Several had the soco rotor and some had older rotors. So itís still a case of some racers in any class are still going to eek out all they can out of their equipment even if the spirit of the class is to JUST RACE.
I really appreciate you going through this effort. Did you happen to have any SS motors? One of the questions I asked way back when, using the same BMC Motor Checker, we would get signifigantly lower numbers in RPM and KV for the SS motors, but correspondingly lower amp draw. Not knowing much about it, we were assuming the SS motors were just not as good, but there does not seem to be a common baseline to compare an SS to a Ballistic?

Did you have any stators with the sticker still on? Did the winding resistance match what Novak claims? I have been told having equal (or close to) numbers across the 3 terminals was just as important as having better values (lower?)?
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Old 06-21-2012, 12:39 PM   #304
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VTA IS NO WAY IN SHAPE A ENTRY LEVEL CLASS. You have to know how to setup a car and drive the cars to be fast. The car needs to be setup so it roll thru the corners and can make the quick transitions without scrubbing speed. Newcomers do not know this and get frustrated very quickly cause they can not keep up

Which IMO brings in another problem, Chassis. It states you can run what ever chassis, but when the guys that have money ( as you pointed out ) go out and buy a TC6.1 for VTA then that hardly makes it fair.
Doesn't matter, every class will have a war going, chassis, Motor, battery, it will always be something.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
Just spent most of last night going through Novak stators and rotors at the track and did about 7 of them. They ranged from 51.5 to 58.5 on my MMS http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1961 which is a large variance if you ask me. Large enough to make a Ĺ second difference in a 13 second lap. Yes in track testing the same consistent driver couldnít go as fast This I think is one of the reasons why there is some suggestion that Novak needs some competition in the motor area. Saying that every Novak motor is the same or within close tolerance is a out and out fallacy. Thatís a 12% deviance in resistance of wire on the stator. I also put several other Novak motors on my extreme motor checker http://www.hobbypartz.com/26p-motorchecker.html and get a 21500 to 24500 range from the worse to best. Which granted can be geared. The interesting one was the difference in rotors from 1300 reading to 1450 on my epic rotor checker. http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1882 granted I didnít test these on my Turbo dyno but I think that this is what the Racers that want to race this class are complaining about. No I donít normally do this but as we are having a 1500 lap race, Ĺ a second a lap is 12.5 minutes behind at the end of the race. Or about 55 laps. Now I will make a point to say that out of the 2 best, one of the stators was over a year old and the other was brand new red wire stator. Several had the soco rotor and some had older rotors. So itís still a case of some racers in any class are still going to eek out all they can out of their equipment even if the spirit of the class is to JUST RACE.
The problem is, go buy 7 stators, over a two year period, of another companies motor. I'll tell you in just the year and a half we've been resistance checking Thunder Power motors that their range isn't much if any better (17.5 vs. 17.5 as that's our most popular class). I know I've seen the same % variation in my own 17.5's, and I honestly expected it to be worse on a population of 25.5's simply because more turns allowed for more opportunities for deviation. As I've mentioned before, I fear the only thing motor competition will do is widen the bell curve by adding different designs and more permutations.

Whether its Novak/TP/SP/Trinity as a spec motor doesn't really matter to me one bit. I just don't believe that if you're goal for a class is close racing you should open up to more equipment. If you're goal is for it to be an open, less-restricted class where manufactures compete with one another then have it. There's obviously sub-sets of the hobby to support both ideas.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:14 AM   #306
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Well I personally wanted to run a Tekin RS. I bought one and was told I could not use it. I had raced once a month for fun. Don't figure.

Keeping VTA with a fix gear ratio would really help keep expirenced racers out of the class. Personally I really think RC needs a noob friendly casual class. I really thought VTA was going to fit the bill and save the future of onroad.

As far as tech issues, I have to giggle. Just tech the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd from the last race. Again people make things way too complicated and at the club level VTA should be relaxed and fun. I really thought VTA was going to be where new/casual drivers could learn and compete together. Instead you have the vet drivers complaining you don't move the hell out of their way, and etc. This is all my personal opinion and observation though.

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a. before I used the LRP SXX v2 in 17.5 TC, I was using my GTB2 and Havok Pro. And was still top 3 anyday. And I race with "A" main racers every weekend that take TC very serious, while I dont. I got a deal on the LRP and started running it in TC. I put my GTB2 in my VTA car and the Havok Pro is in my VTA backup car. With blinky stock racing, all the legal US VTA esc's are up to par with any other form of racing except boost. As a matter of fact the GTB2 is great for mod even. Also the USVTA list is tops...like I said before. Every ROAR VTA race Ive been to and some I havent, the legal US VTA car/driver wins...even top 5. And thats against Tekins,LRP's Black Dimonds and all the other blinky's....no magic or Dragon blood in the ESC's wires...lol

b. an open fdr is a life savior for techs...next you can gear to the moon and take that chance if you like, me Ill run right by you at the 6 min mark cause your car is so hot that its slowing down cause of the heat. Ive seen guys run 3.3-3.5 on a track Im at 3.7-4.0...and the results are the same...they come off at 180 degs, Im at 90 degs.. Im making my victory lap. People are going to try whats legal to get a win...some are willing to go to the extreme, some are happy just to be able to get out the house and race. You make your own poison...I like to win, but will not give up my fun for it. Or extra money. BTW, what you spend $145 on?



Well I dont about anybody you race with, but I do the Hobby for fun Period. Racing is fine , but if I aint having fun, work or home is on the menu. I hear more laughter in USVTA than anything. If your locals are not having fun, let me know and Ill make a visit, BTW, where do you race?



+1

I said I wasnt going to add to this thread anymore(500 mile road trip...lol)..but today is Fathers Day and Im sitting here hooking up and testing ESC's for the purpose of this wonderful class.

Ill open up and say that if you truly have an idea or concern, please pm me or call...and it will get looked at, that doesnt mean it will be in your favor, but it will be looked at serious

Thanks and lets get back to racing and the US VTA thread
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:48 PM   #307
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:10 AM   #308
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I would like to try the VTA class but the problem is exactly what people have be writing. I'm afraid I'll get a car and race it a few time and not even be competitive because of the guys that have been doing it for a while and know how and what is going on. I'm somewhat new at on-road racing. Did a little back in the 90s with an RS4 and would like to get back into it but if I'm going to get beat bad every time why bother. Can't we set up a class (or is there already one) for newbs and keep everything fair by making everyone run the same size motor, ratio an all that, so it would be the drivers fault if if the come in last?
I'm gonna repost this over in our TN forum.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:46 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
Just spent most of last night going through Novak stators and rotors at the track and did about 7 of them. They ranged from 51.5 to 58.5 on my MMS http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1961 which is a large variance if you ask me. Large enough to make a Ĺ second difference in a 13 second lap. Yes in track testing the same consistent driver couldnít go as fast This I think is one of the reasons why there is some suggestion that Novak needs some competition in the motor area. Saying that every Novak motor is the same or within close tolerance is a out and out fallacy. Thatís a 12% deviance in resistance of wire on the stator. I also put several other Novak motors on my extreme motor checker http://www.hobbypartz.com/26p-motorchecker.html and get a 21500 to 24500 range from the worse to best. Which granted can be geared. The interesting one was the difference in rotors from 1300 reading to 1450 on my epic rotor checker. http://www.lefthander-rc.com/catalog...oducts_id=1882 granted I didnít test these on my Turbo dyno but I think that this is what the Racers that want to race this class are complaining about. No I donít normally do this but as we are having a 1500 lap race, Ĺ a second a lap is 12.5 minutes behind at the end of the race. Or about 55 laps. Now I will make a point to say that out of the 2 best, one of the stators was over a year old and the other was brand new red wire stator. Several had the soco rotor and some had older rotors. So itís still a case of some racers in any class are still going to eek out all they can out of their equipment even if the spirit of the class is to JUST RACE.
Roberts post got me thinking, so I broke out my hobbywing/SP BL dyno to do a few tests of my own. The difference between the 2 dyno's being the SP version uses a esc and battery to run the system. A 40a esc and 40c 5000mah battery were used.

2 Ballistics were checked and 1 SS that's 2 years old. 1 Ballistic was a gold wire stator that's over a year old, 1 a red wire that is 6 months. Motor rotor checker was on the fritz so I couldn't check their numbers. The numbers from the dyno were completely different. The SS being the slowest on rpm versus the 3 but having the best eficiency @ 2A/10w versus 4a/14w when under full power and load. I used one of the break-in fans for load then a 27t as a slave motor.

Even though the dyno numbers had the ss as the slowest, it is by far faster on the track.
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:53 PM   #310
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I would like to try the VTA class but the problem is exactly what people have be writing. I'm afraid I'll get a car and race it a few time and not even be competitive because of the guys that have been doing it for a while and know how and what is going on. I'm somewhat new at on-road racing. Did a little back in the 90s with an RS4 and would like to get back into it but if I'm going to get beat bad every time why bother. Can't we set up a class (or is there already one) for newbs and keep everything fair by making everyone run the same size motor, ratio an all that, so it would be the drivers fault if if the come in last?
I'm gonna repost this over in our TN forum.
Look I am far from being the fastest guy in the pack. I am quite used to having to struggle to stay on pace. All I can say is there is no better class with better parity between racers than VTA by the official USVTA rules. No its not meant to be a beginner class but the price for being inexperienced is far lower than it is in the shiny new super fast touring car department. The only thing that a club could do to get closer racing would be to spec everything, I mean everything.

You cant go into anything where the establishment knows well what they are doing and expec to to win against them right away. Maybe not ever. But maybe you are so awesome at everything you do that it usually pans out like that for you. I dont know.

My suggestion to you is to buy used gear, or borrow it from someone already racing the class. Get in cheap and if it doesnt work out you can get most of your money back.
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:51 PM   #311
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I would like to try the VTA class but the problem is exactly what people have be writing. I'm afraid I'll get a car and race it a few time and not even be competitive because of the guys that have been doing it for a while and know how and what is going on. I'm somewhat new at on-road racing. Did a little back in the 90s with an RS4 and would like to get back into it but if I'm going to get beat bad every time why bother. Can't we set up a class (or is there already one) for newbs and keep everything fair by making everyone run the same size motor, ratio an all that, so it would be the drivers fault if if the come in last?
I'm gonna repost this over in our TN forum.
We run a box stock slash on-road class at our track. It is for people looking to get into racing cheap and easy. That is how I started last year. We also had our VTA class to fill in that next step up in speed and set up knowledge. The great thing I found was it is easy to get into the VTA class and it takes time to move up the class in speed. The owner of the track and hobby shop found me a used TC5 for $100 and away I went. A couple of bodies later I was getting around the track and had learned to be pretty good at letting the faster cars lap me...lol. The track changed to USGT this years and all is getting better for me. Finished 5th out of 10 so I'm now middle of the pack. I know my TC5 and trinity motor isn't the best out there but while I learn to do set ups and make my lines better it is just fine! As in everything TIME and track time makes you faster! Plus we have some great guys helping you.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:28 PM   #312
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We run a box stock slash on-road class at our track. It is for people looking to get into racing cheap and easy. That is how I started last year. We also had our VTA class to fill in that next step up in speed and set up knowledge. The great thing I found was it is easy to get into the VTA class and it takes time to move up the class in speed. The owner of the track and hobby shop found me a used TC5 for $100 and away I went. A couple of bodies later I was getting around the track and had learned to be pretty good at letting the faster cars lap me...lol. The track changed to USGT this years and all is getting better for me. Finished 5th out of 10 so I'm now middle of the pack. I know my TC5 and trinity motor isn't the best out there but while I learn to do set ups and make my lines better it is just fine! As in everything TIME and track time makes you faster! Plus we have some great guys helping you.
Don't let yourself think like that...there is nothing wrong with a tc5 and trinity motors. Keep at it and have fun
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:37 PM   #313
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Don't let yourself think like that...there is nothing wrong with a tc5 and trinity motors. Keep at it and have fun
The TC5 is ok, the trinity is an older silver can. I have it geared up but still lose ground on the long straight away. I've taken about 1.5 seconds off my best lap of the year so I'm happy.need to find about 2 more seconds somewhere..lol
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:43 PM   #314
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The TC5 is ok, the trinity is an older silver can. I have it geared up but still lose ground on the long straight away. I've taken about 1.5 seconds off my best lap of the year so I'm happy.need to find about 2 more seconds somewhere..lol
brushless ?
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #315
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brushless ?
Yes it is.
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