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Old 06-11-2012, 10:00 PM   #211
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I have never seen so many people tell other ,if you dont like it go and race another class ,it only seems to be in the vta threads. Why not try to convince people on the benafits and reasoning for the rules instead? I for one am not a fan of novak but i do like the class ,thats why i bought their motor for carpet nats and i would buy one of their esc's if i wanted to race 100% vta leagal races. VTA is a very fun class but all of the "if you dont like it run something else comments cant be helping bring people to the class.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:11 PM   #212
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This isn't really a discussion about being rules complient. These guys asking about this aren't trying to break the rules just trying to get other options put on the table. A lot of people keep posting that this is the way it is. If you don't like it then don't run it. Well guess what? They aren't running it and a lot more peolle aren't running it. They aren't trying to get an edge believe me. They aren't even trying to run it until they are usvta rules complient. If they have to wait for a rule change or new approved products they are willing to do so. I have seen some of these posters run and they are plenty fast already. They don't need an edge. For one reason or another they don't like Novak. Personally I like Novak and use a lot of their products but I understand the concern. To each his own but this class is currently losing racers. They posted this out of concern for what's best for the class. Yes it has gotten heated and the same old things have come up over and over again. Comments like learn to drive/tune. You must not know what your doing if you have problems with Novak equipment. If you don't like it then don't run it. Its your fault the eac failed etc. etc. Statements I'm tired of hearing. Would you tell a newbie these things or would you discuss things and try to help out? As it is veteran racers are chosing not to race so people throw derogatory statements at them. Like this is going to encourage them to return even if a new esc is approved.

From what I have read a lot of people are content with things as is. Ok fine. Maybe we shouldn't look at more escs. Things are fine the way they are right? Ok so when Novak decides to discontinue the edge, club, and gtb 2 what next? Things are fine right? Since we can't have a discussion on equipment without hostilities guess we won't have any new speed controls to choose from. Hopefully I can get a mint for my used edge and gtb 2 on eBay since used will be the only option. Ok this is a far stretch but it has some truth to it. Don't be so defensive because someone wants to expand the options. Remember what happened with the hpi tires???? No options meant a lot of people were left in the pits because they couldn't get tires. How many new sales did shops miss out on because they couldn't sell a vta car with tires. Sound stupid? Well our shop lost a few sales.

This discussion has gotten way out of hand. The op just wanted to inquire about alternative escs that could possibly be reviewed and approved. Choices will grow the class. Stubborn attitudes on BOTH sides of this issue will ruin it. It all boils down to personal preference. Fortunately it seems that a few new escs are going to be reviewed soon. Hopefully we will all get some good news and some more options.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:55 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Hexonox View Post
Personally I don't like being forced to use a product that has to me; substandard qualities. Simply I've gotten tired of the stress of knowing that it's not a matter of if but when any of 6 esc's that I've owned are going to melt down.
This is the only comment I was irritated by. I think it's every bit as damaging to the proverbial possible noob to knock the manufacturer of the powertrain the possible noob would need to buy. Then of course the sillyness of implying that maybe you would like a different esc better, or that someone could be noticeably faster by buying a truckload of motors and spending countless hours tinkering. I have personally brought two new racers to the USVTA ranks, partly by spouting the cost effective nature of the class, with the reality that if they want to change classes it's just a motor, tyre, body swap away. Plus they could start with dated equipment and be competitive. I could put either of their cars in the show any day and they're racing on the super cheap.

I don't think any of us are really taking this that personally, but I will defend the honor of the company that birthed this class that will give noobs a field to play on. I think we all want to grow the sport.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:01 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by ChadRacing View Post
Ok..but then you still have the guys who go out and buy 5 motors to build and match so they can get the best performance. How is that equal? I know this for a fact cause several people out our local track have done this and you can see that their motors are way stronger and faster. You can not complete with people who do this. People will always find ways to be faster just cause they have the money.
Correction, this is the post that made me speak up
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #215
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I just started VTA and started to really like it until I came to the forum to see there is a lot of Drama in this class and any topic around it. No mater what spec class you run or even if it's a mod class. There is always gonna be someone faster then you. You have people with big pockets and more resources. This class is all about driving your car and having fun. That's how I look at it. Crying about rules being changed and stuff is crazy. It may make you faster, but is gonna make the better driver and faster guy even more faster. Then what?????????? Will you want another change made?

Just enjoy the sport.....win or loose, fast or slow.

That's my 2 cents
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
My only comment is geared towards the rules on speed controls. If I can show you my blinking lights on my rs pro whats the difference between that and the citrix or what not. I'm not trying to start a fight. I logistically don't get the difference. I understand and fully like the motor, battery, etc etc. But I am in the hobby and I don't want to trade down to run VTA but it would be a nice second class at a smaller venue during the winter. I won't run it though cause I'm not gonna trade my Tekin for a Citrix.

I hope that the carpet place runs 12th scale if not.
The USVTA rules state that the ESC cannot have firmware updates. I sent Rob a Hobbywing Justock for approval. Guess what, it failed USVTA approval. It did not and does not meet the rules. It will never be anything more than a zero timing ESC because it is firmware updatable. I can live with that. I picked up a Cirtix because of the small form factor. So far so good. The Cirtix works great. I put the Justocks in my F1 cars instead. There is always a class that will allow your other ROAR approved blinky ESCs.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:49 PM   #217
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Here's what the thing is. There's reasons for rules which have explained many times, like that the non programmable escs are meant to inspire confidence that there will be no legality issues. There have been blinky software issues in the past, so the desire is to eliminate that.

The wish for someone's personal preference in equipment cannot override what is trying to be achieved overall.

Even more so, the inference is that no consideration has been given to these issues. That nobody who looked at the rules effects even thought about programmable escs or any of the other issues which are constantly rehashed. Then there is a reaction when the answer is "no we are not changing that". Some people don't want to accept that.

And in that case, since there is no membership fee, and I am not coming down to your track to run your races, you really can change that rule if it is hamstringing your race program. Or you can even go with ROAR rules.

The USVTA rules are are attempt to provide a consistent format. Again, there is a group of people in Minnesota who seem perfectly content to run any 17.5 motor and a 1 cell pack. They have a 100% different setup than we do.
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Old 06-12-2012, 02:57 PM   #218
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should just go back to this already. can't get any simpler.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:12 PM   #219
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You should type this up in Word so you can cut and paste it every time the issue comes up.

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Originally Posted by robk View Post
Here's what the thing is. There's reasons for rules which have explained many times, like that the non programmable escs are meant to inspire confidence that there will be no legality issues. There have been blinky software issues in the past, so the desire is to eliminate that.

The wish for someone's personal preference in equipment cannot override what is trying to be achieved overall.

Even more so, the inference is that no consideration has been given to these issues. That nobody who looked at the rules effects even thought about programmable escs or any of the other issues which are constantly rehashed. Then there is a reaction when the answer is "no we are not changing that". Some people don't want to accept that.

And in that case, since there is no membership fee, and I am not coming down to your track to run your races, you really can change that rule if it is hamstringing your race program. Or you can even go with ROAR rules.

The USVTA rules are are attempt to provide a consistent format. Again, there is a group of people in Minnesota who seem perfectly content to run any 17.5 motor and a 1 cell pack. They have a 100% different setup than we do.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by inpuressa View Post
should just go back to this already. can't get any simpler.
That is next year.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Adamska27 View Post
Correction, this is the post that made me speak up
Irritating or not, there are people putting their motors on the dyno and swapping rotors and stators (legal bits) to get the best one. The amount of variance in out of package Novak motors is horrendous. It is probably true with most manufacturers though.

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Originally Posted by stro3579 View Post
I just started VTA and started to really like it until I came to the forum to see there is a lot of Drama in this class and any topic around it. No mater what spec class you run or even if it's a mod class. There is always gonna be someone faster then you. You have people with big pockets and more resources. This class is all about driving your car and having fun. That's how I look at it. Crying about rules being changed and stuff is crazy. It may make you faster, but is gonna make the better driver and faster guy even more faster. Then what?????????? Will you want another change made?

Just enjoy the sport.....win or loose, fast or slow.

That's my 2 cents
Check out the IIC and Boosted threads. There is drama all over onroad RC. It is interesting that Novak and Tekin have always been the big dogs in ESC's. In VTA, Tekin is illegal, and in everything else, the advantages to Tekin are being made illegal. Novak PR is sure doing something right.

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You should type this up in Word so you can cut and paste it every time the issue comes up.
Robk, I think the people want to support USVTA. Not VTA, not weird TC with 12th scale batteries, and not Myron vampire hunting, but U.S.V.T.A. The question is whether USVTA wants that support. There are always other drivers and other clubs, and it is arguable who needs whom more. USVTA works, and it works well. That is not to say it could not be better. Just like the 21.5 to 25.5 change was a change that many people disliked, it has been an improvement to the class. Me personally, knowing that you are actively looking at other options for electronics is all I wanted to hear. Can't say any others will be happy or will come join, but at least me personally, I am content that there are efforts taking place.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #222
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That is next year.
That would be changing the rules.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:58 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
Irritating or not, there are people putting their motors on the dyno and swapping rotors and stators (legal bits) to get the best one. The amount of variance in out of package Novak motors is horrendous. It is probably true with most manufacturers though.
It is and has been true of all motors ever period. I remember brushed motor handout days OMG the things we did LMAO

It's that obnoxious implication you make that somehow the Novak PR department is up to shenanigans that brings you such feedback. Tekin was on the brink of obscurity and brought themselves back via the timing boost niche. Good for them, I used to own all kinds of Tekins in the brushed days, and switched to the orange for price and durability, of course back then all speedos blew up eventually (transistors have come quite a way since then, but are by nature parts that "wear out" to some degree) but the point is that I'm glad Tekin is still around.

IMO the only change I think would be helpful to USVTA guidelines would maybe be a change to min weight as parts keep getting smaller/lighter and the less the car weighs the less motor advantage can be gained by the better motor.

Its just that conspiracy theory BS that people won't stand for at least it is my hope.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:28 PM   #224
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Ok, I received this message from Bob at Associated:

"Hi Rob,

LRP zero has timing capabilities
... as do all LRP's current esc's.

On the zero, the second mode (power mode) must be set to zero to get no timing. Then the set LED will flash red.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Bob Stellflue
Senior Design Engineer
Associated Electrics, Inc."

So unfortunately, the SPX Zero cannot be allowed at this time.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by pejota View Post
You should type this up in Word so you can cut and paste it every time the issue comes up.
Either that or bookmark it so you can simply copypasta it again and again and again.....
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