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Old 06-11-2012, 12:04 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
By your logic, we should onily have 1 ESC, 1 chassis, 1 battery, etc. You banned your own 25.5, but you did not ban the Cirtix? What is the difference?

Yes seriously, I do not understand your logic, because you forgot all the 12th scale classes, USGT, WGT, not to mention all the offroad classes, not to mention all the nitro classes. VTA is what is run at our local track, and it is what I personally enjoy running. That I chose to run a speed passion ESC is my choice, which while it seems to be slower, I prefer because of it's smoothness and reliability. I never expected the speed passion person to come here and tell me to dump it for a Novak.

My turn...seriously?
But you have to give me a solid reason, why adding MORE MOTOR, especially on a very very slow 25.5 will benefit the class...? Not to mention...who would actually make 25.5 for a very small market that only USA and only partial of the USA will run this turn of motor..?

Now...where did I tell you to dump the SP ESC to go to Novak..? I was only talking about motor......and I really HOPE the ESC rule is only 1 brand too, of course I wish it can be SP only ESC rule because NOVAK already took the motor area, but I don't think I said I would want others to run NOVAK ESC other then SP.

About the motor rule...because NOVAK was the 1st to support the VTA and made the 25.5.....the choice is easy, and I respect that. THAT.........actually helping the class. Adding the SP motor in it would only hurting the class.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:14 PM   #182
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Why don't you guys just make this class 100% spec. hand out speedo, motor and batt? I know several guys that don't want to run this class because they already have so much "illegal" escs lying around. If VTA wants that much close racing at an affordable price, hand out electronics should be seriously considered.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #183
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But you have to give me a solid reason, why adding MORE MOTOR, especially on a very very slow 25.5 will benefit the class...? Not to mention...who would actually make 25.5 for a very small market that only USA and only partial of the USA will run this turn of motor..?

Now...where did I tell you to dump the SP ESC to go to Novak..? I was only talking about motor......and I really HOPE the ESC rule is only 1 brand too, of course I wish it can be SP only ESC rule because NOVAK already took the motor area, but I don't think I said I would want others to run NOVAK ESC other then SP.

About the motor rule...because NOVAK was the 1st to support the VTA and made the 25.5.....the choice is easy, and I respect that. THAT.........actually helping the class. Adding the SP motor in it would only hurting the class.
More participants is my reason. In this thread are people who do not like Novak products, and would run VTA if there were other options. That is the end goal "I think" of everyone here, to see VTA become even bigger with larger events and a larger driver base. As far as making the motor for VTA and only VTA, well it is one of, if not the fastest growing onroad class, and I would see benefit to supporting it as a manufacturer. What about 21.5 motors? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't USGT the only one that uses a 21.5? That is an even smaller class, though also growing (I hope, it seems to be locally).

I assumed you wanted 1 ESC as the same logic applies for you suggesting only 1 motor. I think Novak was first to the table with the ESC, so does that mean the Cirtix should be banned? Again, this is your logic, not mine. I love my Cirtix and am happy that I bought it, and happy to continue using it. I have that option for an ESC, why should I not have any options for a motor? I do not see how adding a SP 25.5 motor (or another manufacturer motor) would hurt the class, unless it was a signifigant advantage or disadvantage in performance. Some would argue (myself included) that there is enough variability in the Novak motors, that it would not matter what specs a competitors motor is, as long as it is a 25.5.

Again, everyone here (other then some of the lawn gnome and silly putty powered uber fast drivers) wants to see VTA grow, thrive, and continue to gain in popularity. Call me dense (i am sure many here are calling me much worse) how having another motor option (just like multiple ESC options) will hurt the class? It may not be financially worthwhile as a manufacturer to produce one, and that is only something they can determine, but I sure don't see how it will hurt the class any differently then the multiple battery/chassis options do.
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by redbones View Post
Why don't you guys just make this class 100% spec. hand out speedo, motor and batt? I know several guys that don't want to run this class because they already have so much "illegal" escs lying around. If VTA wants that much close racing at an affordable price, hand out electronics should be seriously considered.
I agree with you. Hand out motor and speed control should be mandatory.
At my oval track we all run 17.5 motors non-boosted, no timing.
Although 25.5 is for vintage trans am these days. Honestly Tamiya Silvercans
can also be legal because I have a boatload of those.
Id like to try one of those motors on a 2-cell Lipo just to see how fast it goes...lol
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Old 06-11-2012, 12:58 PM   #185
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Well since this post seemed pretty mean spirited. I just thought I would jump in here, I have raced with the op and personally witnessed an out of the box failure of a novak edge for the op.
Sorry if it seemed mean, but don't knock Novak. They have supported R/C diligently and maybe there is an incident or two with a problem out of the box, no user error at all, but most/all of us know Novak to be a very reputable company with excellent support. They are partly responsible for how awesome the VTA equation is. Top level plug and play quality electronics for shipped from china prices and still complaints??
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:00 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I have that option for an ESC, why should I not have any options for a motor?
Because an ESC shouldn't make the car faster
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:44 PM   #187
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Jesus guys, this is as bitter a thread as I have ever seen.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:49 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
More participants is my reason. In this thread are people who do not like Novak products, and would run VTA if there were other options.
Or some of us that never run Novak in any other class went out and bought some Novak gear... because those are the rules. The alternative to not following the rules is to not be able to (legally) run the class. Ever bought a Coke instead of a Pepsi because you either had to at that moment or else you go thirsty? Ever urgently need to use a public washroom and decide not to because they don't have your brand of TP? You may prefer one brand, but even the other is better than NOTHING. This is where someone will chime in again and say that fifteen options for every piece of gear is what we need.... or the other "I'm not spending $$$ on another esc" or any of the other dead arguments. The money thing is my favorite.. nothing in this hobby is cheap, but to not be able to buy a VTA legal esc because of cost is really funny. Don't race one weekend, or don't stop daily at Starbucks for a week, or don't buy new tires for your faster class one weekend and you've paid for a legal VTA esc. We started last year with two used esc's that were around $40 each.. they ran fine. A new set of tires for our 17.5 car run around thirty bucks and work well one race-day. No class in this hobby is really cheap when you look at it from an outsiders perspective, but VTA really can be a cheapER class.. not sure why everyone keeps trying to equate dollars spent to your end results in the standings?

Now if you do race against someone that races with a brand x motor.. and they beat you, racing your toy car , and that's the ONLY reason they beat you.. does that make you lose sleep? Is it an ego and/or testosterone thing? Your name is over my name on the printout at the end of the night? Really? Did you have fun at ANY point or were you too busy assuming that someone else had an advantage from the start? How often have we just driven a *perfect* race where something other than our own actions/decisions would have been the biggest factor? You can't accept that ONE part of your car has to be made by Novak?

Grow up.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:51 PM   #189
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Jesus guys, this is as bitter a thread as I have ever seen.
Yep.

For a class that you'd think would be the most laid-back class at most places that run any form of touring cars.

It's embarrassing, really.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:55 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Adamska27 View Post
Sorry if it seemed mean, but don't knock Novak. They have supported R/C diligently and maybe there is an incident or two with a problem out of the box, no user error at all, but most/all of us know Novak to be a very reputable company with excellent support. They are partly responsible for how awesome the VTA equation is. Top level plug and play quality electronics for shipped from china prices and still complaints??
At the end of the day it's often going to be because Joe Hardcore Racer thinks of Novak as newbie/basher gear... bottom line. Novak isn't elite enough, cool enough, or expensive enough.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #191
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At the end of the day it's often going to be because Joe Hardcore Racer thinks of Novak as newbie/basher gear... bottom line. Novak isn't elite enough, cool enough, or expensive enough.
Really? Many of these posters have stated genuine concerns about reliability that they have EXPERIENCED themselves and your response is that they're elitists? I ran Novak gear for decades during the brushed years, from a NESC4 all the way up to the GTX. Performance, reliability and customer support were second to none.

Enter the brushless era. I'm working part time in a hobby store, and notice the number of people who've bought SS systems I'm having to refer to Novak's return policy. It was more than I had ever seen in 20+ years of brushed.

Move forward to the GTB, I watched one racer at the club track install a brand new GTB and Novak 17.5. He sets the speedo, and everything checks out great on the bench. Sets the car on track, pulls the trigger, and instant smoke............ John Foister (owner of BSR tires, class act, and at the time, owner of this track) says he'll handle the return, and hands the customer another brand new esc. Racer installs second GTB, asks another racer and myself to check his work. Everything looks great. He plugs in the pack, and instant smoke. That was two just that day.
We watched countless others go up in flames, so much so, that the phrase Guaranteed To Burn, was coined.

This was obviously a bad period for Novak and I'm sure they stood behind each and everyone of those products and handled those situations. I like Bob, Steve Weiss and Charlie. But I also understand how that sort of thing can turn a person away from a certain brand.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:29 PM   #192
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At the end of the day it's often going to be because Joe Hardcore Racer thinks of Novak as newbie/basher gear... bottom line. Novak isn't elite enough, cool enough, or expensive enough.
Or seem to have enough pepole in thier qc department.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #193
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Really? Many of these posters have stated genuine concerns about reliability that they have EXPERIENCED themselves and your response is that they're elitists?

This was obviously a bad period for Novak and I'm sure they stood behind each and everyone of those products and handled those situations. I like Bob, Steve Weiss and Charlie. But I also understand how that sort of thing can turn a person away from a certain brand.
Yes, I stand by what I said... overlooked keyword was 'often'.

There have been known problems with many brands, sometimes I feel the bigger guys get a bad rap because they sell so many more and therefore the reported problems get overblown a tad. Most happy consumers say nothing, the person that feels slighted on any level will often complain the loudest and the longest

Some products are just turds, for any manufacturer.

With that being said, if you made me sit down and write a short list of brands that I would have problems in using... Novak isn't my first choice. My first esc was a T4, I've personally bought, used, sold, and tossed both more esc's and specifically more Novak products than most people here have even seen or heard of firsthand... they're overall a good company, their target market is just NOT the diehard racer.

And again... the biggest complaints seem to be about the motor restriction. There are other esc choices - run something else and go have fun.

Run a different brand of legal esc... go for it. Just run one of the two legal Novak motors.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:50 PM   #194
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Yep.

For a class that you'd think would be the most laid-back class at most places that run any form of touring cars.

It's embarrassing, really.
sadly, the more restrictive a class gets, the more serious people get to squeeze every gram of power out.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:56 PM   #195
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To anyone reading this who is just getting into RC or thinking about racing. All of this BS does not show up at the track. Everyone there is friendly and helpful and there to have fun. Don't let this thread turn you away. VTA really is as fun as it looks.
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