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Old 02-18-2005, 05:46 AM   #46
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chek this out! there's a source of information specialized on integy trays.
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Old 02-19-2005, 10:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Shookie
This tray/s are awsome, I have four. Because Hot Rods runs three quals and a main so you need four packs as I won't run a pack twice in a day. I did that once with a $80 fusion pack and the runtime went in the toilet. As for the trays they lights go out at .09v as with most trays and you can leave them like all the rest, but with them they pull 6v's per cell so it really gets the juice out. I really don't use the trays as dischargers because I have the Integy Zero thirty to do my dirty work.....Then I store them and put them on the trays the night or day before then race day then I charge them with my APS or GM Commander with a temp probe because when you use the night before technique most chargers will false peak so. I hope I answered your question.
Stephen <><


Thanks for the reply....I'm getting 3 of the trays and I think I will put a pack in each one of them as soon as I get up to go to the track and once I start charging the first one for the first qualifier, I'll then put my main pack on the tray to get ready for the main which is a few hours later in the day.


What do you guys think of that?

Mr Shookie and Jaybee........let me know what you think.
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Old 02-19-2005, 11:43 PM   #48
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thanx for the info joeb,

so is this right:

i charge my packs on my novak millenium,
set my discharge cut off on my yokomo bms to ZEROv( 0.00v)
and once the batts are cooled, let them discharge to zero???

do i leave them then? or... im not sure i understand the process

also, i havent raced in a while, so my packs havent been run in a bit, but i cycled them yesterday and they are still okay, if i discharge to 0.00v and then charge back up, will it help revitalise my packs??? or something along the lines of???

basically how and why do u dead short?

is it better to discharge on my yokomo to 0.00v or let my tray do it?

sorry to be a pain, but i really appreciate all your help

thanx
robbie
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Old 02-20-2005, 12:29 AM   #49
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Not a pain at all........Really as long as you get your packs to zero it isn't super important how they got there(use the trey with the lower discharge rate if you have a choice)........just get each cell to zero confirmed with your voltmeter (make sure)..... and then simply solder a piece of wire the exact length between your positive and negative battery leads, if you happen to be short on good wire, using a length of solder works fine too.......deadshorting the pack just simply keeps the packs individual cells "equal" and at "true zero" before your next charge.......Hypotheticaly....if you were to bring a pack to zero and then remove it from the trey (or whatever device you used to get it there) In a couple minutes time it will rebound to around 1.2volts per cell (give or take) defeating most of the purpose of the equalizing process.....so either dead short the pack untill it's ready to be charged...... or discharge to zero and immediately remove from the trey and charge.....it's pretty much the same thing.......deadshorting them is just more convienent in the sence that you can have several packs sitting at true zero waiting to be charged.......instead of having to have several discharge treys or even having to mess with this kind of time consuming stuff at the track and yes cycling a pack will commonly get a pack back into shape (unless it's too old or too used ofcourse).......and the charge you get from a deadshorted pack or even a perfectly equalized pack (reguardless of the voltage it was equalized at)will be better than a pack that has cells that are at all different voltages before your charge...hope this helps.......Joe
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Old 02-20-2005, 12:31 AM   #50
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thanx joe, ur a great help

one final question tho, haha

will this ruin my cells??? i know heaps of ppl do it, so obviously it cant be that bad,
but i REALLY just dont wanna ruin my cells and as i cant afford new ones at the moment

i wana give it a go, but not at the risk of losing a pack


thanx

robbie
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Old 02-20-2005, 12:41 AM   #51
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All I can say is that Iv'e been deadshorting for stock and even 19 turn for several years and have never had a pack or a cell go bad.......like I said, just make sure each cell is always at zero when you short it, and you shouldn't have any problems......the only other precautionary thing I can think of, is that if you have a pack thats deadshorted , and your not going to race for more than 3 to 4 weeks...unshort it..
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:12 AM   #52
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xray racer,

Joe B is correct. You have to make sure your cells have no voltage in them. I do have a friend of mine that couldn't wait to bring his cells down low enough and in one pack one of the cells vented......and popped. It didn't explode but it scared the you know what out of him.

Just be careful....
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:49 AM   #53
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Here, This is what a Very Popular matcher has to say on this subject.

http://www.promatchracing.com/batteryins.htm

I hope this helps explain what I was saying before.
Stephen <><
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:38 AM   #54
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Mr Shookie,

The information at Pro Match is not totally accurate, I read this some time ago it's been posted for some time and is a little out of date.

Go to this web site and click on the link about the latest equalising information. This study was done just a few weeks ago and is accurate as the hard data was gathered. When you equalise to zero the voltage AND the run time goes up, run time way up. I do something similar to what Pro match's first example is. I equalise the night before before I race until the lights go out. On the day of the race I will put them back on and take as much out as I possibly can, down to 0 and leave them there until I take them off to charge. You will notice that you will be putting in a LOT of Mah (4200 to 4400) Voltage is up, run time up and internal resistance is down.

http://www.pro-trak.co.uk/

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Old 02-21-2005, 12:03 PM   #55
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Yup....A little out of date to say the least at least some of the really top matchers like SMC do constant research and acurately update their web-site, as later generations of GP's come out......
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Last edited by Joe B; 02-21-2005 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 02-21-2005, 12:45 PM   #56
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Can I dead short my batteries with a Novak Smart Tray?
If yes can you explain me how to do it?

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Old 02-21-2005, 01:06 PM   #57
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Chris:

On the Equalizing tests, does it matter how you get to zero?

For example, do you discharge 20A, 25A or 30A down to 5.4v/pack?

Then, after you get to the 5.4v/pack value does it matter if you take it down to zero using 1A, 1.5A, 3A or 5A (depending on the various popular tray)?

I am wondering if it just matters that you get to zero or if how fast you get to zero matters. If there is a sweet spot of providing benefit before causing damage (that is, causing more damage than what we already do with our batteries the way we use them)

As it stands right now, my regiment is to charge up at 5A then race, after the race and after I marshall I discharge the packs using 20A via a bulb discharge and then I use a tray to take the batteries down to 0.9v/cell via a Rayspeed Equilize mode. Then I use a Rayspeed Conditioning mode with the NiMH switch to take the batteries down to zero.

Thanks
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:13 PM   #58
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Hi Leadfoot,

To my mind it's pretty well established that we need to get down to zero as you said so I'm not going to go into the why's much more. The how's though are still being worked on and it's still something which we could probably do with more info on but I'll tell you how I do it and why.

The night before I race I will pre-equalise my cells, I use a Pro Match tray but I have also recently got a Integy zero tray (not the 6 amp version, I'll tell you why soon) so I have two for pre equalising. I just tray them until the lights go off, as I recall this is down to 0.5 ish. This will get the bulk of what is left out of the cells. On the day of the race as I will put my first heat cells on the ICS tray. The ICS changes the amp draw depending on how much is left in the cell and I think that if you put too much of a load on a cell when equalising you will depress the voltage too much. It only does one cell at a time but ripples through the pack many times a second, this means that each cell is allowed to rest for 5/6'ths of the time giving it chance to recover before bieng hit with a discharge pulse the next time. It's very effective for getting every last bit out of the cells. When it is time to start charging I take it off the ics and put it on my charger. I charge at 4.5A to 115 deg F. If it's really cold I go to 110 deg F. The cells I had on the Pro Match tray I move over to the ICS and I put the next pack on the Pro Match tray.

When I finish my heat I will discharge on my Pro Trak at 30A to 4v ( I run 4 cell packs in 12th mod) I check what run time I have left (if any) and I put them in the case and leave them like that for next time.

I don't like to leave the cells with everything taken out of them, weird things can happen to your cells when you do that. I only want to take everything out just before I race. I don't like storing them with nothing in.

This is my theory and it's going pretty well so far, my cells have about 5 cycles on them and I got 4384Mah into my final pack last time i raced.

I hope that sort of answered your questions.

Chris.
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Old 02-27-2005, 06:11 PM   #59
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I have seen some bad things happen to a few packs that I have taken down to 0.0v's and left like that for a week or so.

Crimson Eagle is the only person I know that puts alot of mah's into his cells....I'm trying to get there with my cells but I think i'm lacking a few mah's on charge...
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Old 02-27-2005, 07:54 PM   #60
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Hi Picco,

One of the other Pro Trak guys at my club has a couple of sets of cells which he can get 4500Mah into. This guy is a mod oval driver and his cells are just insane.

Chris
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