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Old 06-18-2012, 03:35 PM   #331
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let's just say you need both talent and perseverance to be up at the very top. Same goes for any competitive sport.

But I think determination is key. This vid was an eye opener for me
+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Getting back to the topic, neither going faster using boost, or gimping by going slower will make you a better driver. You can only make yourself better.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:45 PM   #332
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I am not very talented at all. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to get better, spent as much time as anybody at the track.

Now that I try to have fun with it and accept where I stand, I have a way better time racing. I actually got better results too.

Believe me, I spent enough time and $$ to find out I'm maybe fair to middlin' at this racing stuff.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:50 PM   #333
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I am not very talented at all. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to get better, spent as much time as anybody at the track.

Now that I try to have fun with it and accept where I stand, I have a way better time racing. I actually got better results too.

Believe me, I spent enough time and $$ to find out I'm maybe fair to middlin' at this racing stuff.
i wish more people were like you and remembered why they joined RC in the first place. I rarely get to stand on the podium too. But I've seen too many people come and go, just because they can't win.
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Old 06-18-2012, 05:27 PM   #334
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I am not very talented at all. I banged my head against the wall for years trying to get better, spent as much time as anybody at the track.

Now that I try to have fun with it and accept where I stand, I have a way better time racing. I actually got better results too.

Believe me, I spent enough time and $$ to find out I'm maybe fair to middlin' at this racing stuff.
^
If it isn't fun, why do it
Cost too much to be miserable at it
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:10 PM   #335
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Talent is overrated. I've never seen a fast r/c driver and thought wow he's talented. What I see is are drivers with heart, desire and hard work (8 hours on track, every day).
One thing I will say about that: I have been lucky to see some incredible talent on the way up. Paul Lemieux was sort of local to us, but there was also a guy named Dave B (Paul might remember him as his one time "nemesis") who was the only other person I saw who had that kind of talent. He honestly was on that level, but he never took it seriously, so he never went as far. I remember seeing him throw a lap on a guy who was a national champion at a local club race, and then forget to tighten the wheel nut the next round and lose a tire in the 2nd corner. He would take your car and destroy your lap time, but he was just in it for fun. I could have practiced 24 hrs a day and never come close to what he would do showing up Sunday 15 minutes before registration closed.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:16 PM   #336
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One thing I will say about that: I have been lucky to see some incredible talent on the way up. Paul Lemieux was sort of local to us, but there was also a guy named Dave B (Paul might remember him as his one time "nemesis") who was the only other person I saw who had that kind of talent. He honestly was on that level, but he never took it seriously, so he never went as far. I remember seeing him throw a lap on a guy who was a national champion at a local club race, and then forget to tighten the wheel nut the next round and lose a tire in the 2nd corner. He would take your car and destroy your lap time, but he was just in it for fun. I could have practiced 24 hrs a day and never come close to what he would do showing up Sunday 15 minutes before registration closed.
If non-belted X-pattern tires were ever a handout nobody could touch Bowman!
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:14 AM   #337
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Talent is overrated. I've never seen a fast r/c driver and thought wow he's talented. What I see is are drivers with heart, desire and hard work (8 hours on track, every day).
All the talent in the world will not win you races if you never practice but if you have no talent even if you practice 24/7 you will never get anywhere.

You need talent, heart, desire and put in hardwork.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:21 AM   #338
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One thing I will say about that: I have been lucky to see some incredible talent on the way up. Paul Lemieux was sort of local to us, but there was also a guy named Dave B (Paul might remember him as his one time "nemesis") who was the only other person I saw who had that kind of talent. He honestly was on that level, but he never took it seriously, so he never went as far. I remember seeing him throw a lap on a guy who was a national champion at a local club race, and then forget to tighten the wheel nut the next round and lose a tire in the 2nd corner. He would take your car and destroy your lap time, but he was just in it for fun. I could have practiced 24 hrs a day and never come close to what he would do showing up Sunday 15 minutes before registration closed.
Same observation I made about a guy at our track. He would often show up with a beat up old car that still had most of the parts recognisable from his days as a sponsored local driver but also a lot of bits and pieces from god knows what other cars he had lying around (someone once said jokingly he could use bits of offroad buggies and still beat us). Still, his talent was such that he could follow you or anyone else at a hair's width and never touch you. I have actually seen him do it. Most of the time he would just beat everybody else. His electrics were a mess, and asking him for setup tips was pointless. He had absolutely no idea what his car's setup was (I have actually seen him with three different shocks on the car once, different steering knuckles left to right and so on). Old school guy, cut his teeth in 1/12 and 2WD offroad. I think that's where his unbeatable skills came from.

He is the guy that convinced me that tuning with all this garbage people talk about at nauseam is way overrated. Get the car tracking straight, right gearing, somewhat balanced, get the right tires and go racing. You're 99% there. The rest is in your driving. If you've got talent then you're above everybody else.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:34 AM   #339
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Same observation I made about a guy at our track. He would often show up with a beat up old car that still had most of the parts recognisable from his days as a sponsored local driver but also a lot of bits and pieces from god knows what other cars he had lying around (someone once said jokingly he could use bits of offroad buggies and still beat us). Still, his talent was such that he could follow you or anyone else at a hair's width and never touch you. I have actually seen him do it. Most of the time he would just beat everybody else. His electrics were a mess, and asking him for setup tips was pointless. He had absolutely no idea what his car's setup was (I have actually seen him with three different shocks on the car once, different steering knuckles left to right and so on). Old school guy, cut his teeth in 1/12 and 2WD offroad. I think that's where his unbeatable skills came from.

He is the guy that convinced me that tuning with all this garbage people talk about at nauseam is way overrated. Get the car tracking straight, right gearing, somewhat balanced, get the right tires and go racing. You're 99% there. The rest is in your driving. If you've got talent then you're above everybody else.
I know the type. These guys crumble quickly and start throwing out bullshit excuses like "you guys are outspending me" when you put in the time and start beating them. Natural talent is great, but it will only take you so far if you don't put in the time. A guy with average talent and a great work ethic is going to surpass you pretty quick.

I've seen them come and go. Mostly they're hiding somewhere they can coast and still win, still making excuses. Meanwhile, the rest of us are perfecting our game, and not leaning on the crutch you guys call "talent."
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:40 AM   #340
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I know the type. These guys crumble quickly and start throwing out bullshit excuses like "you guys are outspending me" when you put in the time and start beating them. Natural talent is great, but it will only take you so far if you don't put in the time. A guy with average talent and a great work ethic is going to surpass you pretty quick.

I've seen them come and go. Mostly they're hiding somewhere they can coast and still win, still making excuses. Meanwhile, the rest of us are perfecting our game, and not leaning on the crutch you guys call "talent."
Not at all in this case. He was poor, that is why he could not afford to keep up with our brainless spending. Turns out he didn't need it either, his talent was enough to beat us.

Never heard him commenting on anything, he was actually quite shy. I remember once some idiot took his car out in a competition by reversing on the main straight. His car had the front end destroyed, one suspension arm, one steering knuckle gone. He didn't even utter a word even though this cost him the race.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:50 AM   #341
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It is not just the amount of practise, but the quality.

Will provide minimal improvement:
1. Practising with an easy to drive, understeering car.
2. Practising driving incorrectly. Cranking steering wheel to make the turn rather than practising braking technique.

Will provide massive improvement:
1. Practising with a very difficult to drive, oversteering car.
2. Practising with the steering wheel spring tension removed.
3. Practising with car intentionally set to track to left or right, not straight.
4. Run on track for 3 laps, note laptimes. Change 1 thing on the car, run 3 laps, note laptimes. Keep doing for 8 hours per day.
5. Practise braking skills.
6. Practise mental aspect of driving (mental toughness).

No natural talent is going to beat a non-talented person who does above.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:36 AM   #342
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Actually I disagree with that...practicing with a poor handling car does not make you a better driver. I've seen it many times at the races I run. The easier you can make it the faster they learn because they can concentrate on only 1 or 2 things at a time. If it were true than pure drifters would switch to a class with grip and mop the floor with everyone yet I have seen quite the opposite usually.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:02 PM   #343
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Actually I disagree with that...practicing with a poor handling car does not make you a better driver. I've seen it many times at the races I run. The easier you can make it the faster they learn because they can concentrate on only 1 or 2 things at a time. If it were true than pure drifters would switch to a class with grip and mop the floor with everyone yet I have seen quite the opposite usually.
4. Run on track for 3 laps, note laptimes. Change 1 thing on the car, run 3 laps, note laptimes. Keep doing for 8 hours per day.

Item 4 compensates for that. It is about practising tuning your car to perfection.

It is about driving with ill handling + perfect handling. Increasing your driving adaptability (as most times, especially foreign tracks, you don't have time to have a perfect car). There you have to drive the wheels off an ill handling car.

Drifting usually run at slow speed and hardly use brakes. They need to practise item 4 (grip car setup) and 5 (braking, grip cornering skills) before they can mop.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #344
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Meanwhile, the rest of us are perfecting our game, and not leaning on the crutch you guys call "talent."
I've heard of these guys.....they hide in the caves of the high mountains in Colorado and only come out once or twice a year, sometimes you can spot them in Nevada or the far remotes of Florida.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:35 PM   #345
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4. Run on track for 3 laps, note laptimes. Change 1 thing on the car, run 3 laps, note laptimes. Keep doing for 8 hours per day.

Item 4 compensates for that. It is about practising tuning your car to perfection.

It is about driving with ill handling + perfect handling. Increasing your driving adaptability (as most times, especially foreign tracks, you don't have time to have a perfect car). There you have to drive the wheels off an ill handling car.

Drifting usually run at slow speed and hardly use brakes. They need to practise item 4 (grip car setup) and 5 (braking, grip cornering skills) before they can mop.
This approach might work for club racing, but means very little at big races where you have very little track time. You have to get your car close and then wheel it from there. Cars will never be perfect, even if you spend a lifetime trying to figure it out...

I understand your approach but do not think it would work for me...personally I have to experience my car for the full length of racing...cars change as the tires heat up or pick up stuff off the track. Running for the full race time will be the best way to dial a car in. One change at a time...little by little. Once you get it close you can fine tune from their. It takes patience and skills that sometimes pure talent can simply not help. It is fine if you are a great driver, but unless you have the skills to make your car the work the way you want it to then all bets are off.
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