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Old 06-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #316
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Perhaps I should add given we are running boosted the numbers are almost the strongest they have ever been. In other areas which are running blinky numbers (whilst they did see a short boost when they went blinky) are struggling.

I would run either if we didn't have a choice but IMO given people the option of a blinky and boosted spec class is probably the best option in the long term .
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #317
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You love to argue I can see that by the many posts I read from you, and It is clear you like boost. I disagree with your approach, but that does not mean I am right. Don't be fooled just because someone does not run a lot of pan car does not mean that they don't have the ability to do it.

The issue with your theory in my opinion is that everything continues to get faster and as such people are being left behind because they did not give themselves the time to even learn the beginner classes and slower speeds. RC is a progression on skills and you must crawl before you can run. You guys want everyone to run out of the gate and all this does is piss people off and send them further away from RC. It has to be easy and fun or people won't stick with it, and then over time as people improve they can move up. Throwing a newbie into a 17.5 boosted TC or 1/12th scale is the worst Idea I have ever heard. This approach really drives people away, fast.

BTW- VTA when it was popular here locally was the most competitive class we had...guys were doing whatever they could to go faster and this drove a lot of guys away. I never personally got into it but a lot of guys did and when they were getting beat by laps in vintage they got really discouraged. They quit and have never come back.
I prefer the term "spirited debate" to argue, and I never said you couldn't drive a pan car, I simply said you don't run it much, which you readily admit to. Yes I do prefer boost, almost as much as I prefer the "crutch" of foam tires. I often forget how little set-up matters in pan-car classes and that driving pan car is easier than walking the family dog.

Now on to the above quoted post.

You speak to the necessity of progression through slower classes, which I totally agree with. You then recount why VTA, a blinky, spec-tire, slower class, died in your area due to the need to fervently pursue a few extra tenths in all aspects of chassis tuning and drivetrain refinement brought on by having too little HP. So when we reduce all other classes to that end as far as power is concerned, won't they all inevitably follow the same path?

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As for going slow, in all the slower classes around the one thing that comes to the fore is driving ability every time. With limited power it is all down to whether you can set your car up properly and whether you can drive it, if you can't carry speed through the corners you don't have a powerful motor to rely on down the straights to make up the deficit.
This is a bit true, and a bit untrue. In the slower spec classes you must learn to drive a slow car as quickly as possible. The unfortunate thing about this is that this will not teach you how to drive a fast car. In these slower classes 10 cars can run nose to tail for 6 mins. with nary a mistake. Now strap a 10.5 in their cars (and for the sake of argument, leave it blinky), and see how many of these drivers still make zero mistakes. I venture a guess that you'll see a few more errors. Plus the set-up tends to vary a bit from a 21.5 or 17.5 level of power and the set-ups the Mod guys use.

And on a roadcourse you'll need way more power than the rest of the field to make up for mistakes made in 8 or so corners per lap in the length of one straightaway. At all the big races I've been to, Blinky or Boosted, the same guys are always on top.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:26 AM   #318
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Ian is the one who loves to argue? Judging by the 12 paragraphs alone I think you should maybe look in the mirror. You seem to really want to impose youre point of veiw on everyone who will listen.

Is that too many words fer ya? You add no value to a reasonable conversation...go troll some other thread.

Not imposing, just providing a different perspective, which clearly went right over your head and hit you in the Halo.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #319
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Is that too many words fer ya? You add no value to a reasonable conversation...go troll some other thread.

Not imposing, just providing a different perspective, which clearly went right over your head and hit you in the Halo.
No, it's not too many words, I just didn't think anyone could cry and whine that much for that long. You might think its a "different perspective", but it's clearly something else.

I don't troll the threads, as I have input here. Maybe you should go back and read some pages here instead of writing novels. Oh wait, my input has a different view than yours, so it must be trolling. So, go ahead and piss and moan some more. After all, it's clearly the only thing you're good at. Well that and put downs.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #320
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No, it's not too many words, I just didn't think anyone could cry and whine that much for that long. You might think its a "different perspective", but it's clearly something else.

I don't troll the threads, as I have input here. Maybe you should go back and read some pages here instead of writing novels. Oh wait, my input has a different view than yours, so it must be trolling. So, go ahead and piss and moan some more. After all, it's clearly the only thing you're good at. Well that and put downs.
He's a pretty good racer too.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:26 PM   #321
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He's a pretty good racer too.
He's a man of many talents
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:26 PM   #322
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The whole argument of "you just need to practice" to be fast is B.S., everybody has a talent limit and if you have done the same class consistently for more than two years and aren't Paul Lemiux or Brian Kinwald fast, you're never going to be. But for the love of God don't quit, not everybody can be champion, but for God's sake if we're running Blinky, Boosted, or Barbie Jeep motors, the slow will still be slow and the fast will still be fast.
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Old 06-18-2012, 08:27 AM   #323
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The whole argument of "you just need to practice" to be fast is B.S., everybody has a talent limit and if you have done the same class consistently for more than two years and aren't Paul Lemiux or Brian Kinwald fast, you're never going to be. But for the love of God don't quit, not everybody can be champion, but for God's sake if we're running Blinky, Boosted, or Barbie Jeep motors, the slow will still be slow and the fast will still be fast.
Actually not true at all. Science shows anyone can accel if they put the work in, you have to do something at least 144 times for it to become muscle memory. (144 times perfectly to become perfect muscle memory) Can't speak for RC champions (maybe someone else can? I'm curious..) but in athletics those champions usually spend their entire life preparing for it. Boxers are great because they live in the gym, same with Jordan and durant, etc. in basketball. (there are Ms of people on this earth with the same athleticism/deminsions of these guys who never picked up a basketball, they're constanly asked by strangers "youre huge! why dont you play basketball!") Tiger woods picked up a club when he was 2, that's 19 years of experience before he won his first major.

if you spent your life at the track you could be a champion too! Lol.

Your talent limit = doubting yourself
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #324
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Actually not true at all. Science shows anyone can accel if they put the work in, you have to do something at least 144 times for it to become muscle memory. (144 times perfectly to become perfect muscle memory) Can't speak for RC champions (maybe someone else can? I'm curious..) but in athletics those champions usually spend their entire life preparing for it. Boxers are great because they live in the gym, same with Jordan and durant, etc. in basketball. (there are Ms of people on this earth with the same athleticism/deminsions of these guys who never picked up a basketball, they're constanly asked by strangers "youre huge! why dont you play basketball!") Tiger woods picked up a club when he was 2, that's 19 years of experience before he won his first major.

if you spent your life at the track you could be a champion too! Lol.

Your talent limit = doubting yourself
Masami said he started RC from a very early age, and he would just constantly do figure eights for practice . Look at where that took him.

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” - Bruce Lee
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:18 PM   #325
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Masami said he started RC from a very early age, and he would just constantly do figure eights for practice . Look at where that took him.

“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” - Bruce Lee
Damn, he should've just gone in circles..they have a class for that. He could have been the next Paul Lemiux of oval!
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:20 PM   #326
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I agree, practice matters. But there are diminishing returns. You'll see your biggest leaps in improvement early, and then they will start to taper off to the point where you'll wonder if you've improved from one year to the next. You'll rightfully question if practice even works anymore.

In my experience, it does. But the gains are small, and it's important to find new ways to challenge yourself. You end up working on the edges of your game rather than the middle, if that makes sense. Unfortunately, sometimes all that practice doesn't translate to anything when you leave the comfy confines of your own home. You go to big races where guys have practiced as much or more than you, and have been to a hundred big races in their lives. It's difficult to hang with that kind of experience. That's the kind of thing you have to leave home to get better at. It's definitely been the weakest part of my game. I left the last two out of town races I attended (Albuquerque'11 / Snowbirds'11) feeling like I didn't even deserve to be in the building. I guess it's how you deal with those experiences that will determine what kind of racer you become.

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Old 06-18-2012, 12:23 PM   #327
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Actually not true at all. Science shows anyone can accel if they put the work in, you have to do something at least 144 times for it to become muscle memory. (144 times perfectly to become perfect muscle memory) Can't speak for RC champions (maybe someone else can? I'm curious..) but in athletics those champions usually spend their entire life preparing for it. Boxers are great because they live in the gym, same with Jordan and durant, etc. in basketball. (there are Ms of people on this earth with the same athleticism/deminsions of these guys who never picked up a basketball, they're constanly asked by strangers "youre huge! why dont you play basketball!") Tiger woods picked up a club when he was 2, that's 19 years of experience before he won his first major.

if you spent your life at the track you could be a champion too! Lol.

Your talent limit = doubting yourself
So, according to that information, completely true! We have several people who came through RC at the same time as David Spashett and you wouldn't know their names. They spent loads and loads of time at the track, but not a decent trophy to their name.

i have spent every working day on my life in engineering, but I am not a household name with a great design or product to my name. I am not even the best in my company at the role I do. I have been practising this discipline for 40 years, is that enough?

People can spend a lifetime doing something and never be the best at it. Even people who can compete on the world stage in their sport will never win big events, they are just very good at their chosen discipline. But to say that if you practice you can always be good at something does not fit any facts that life can give us. There is something called talent, and some people have it for RC and some don't.

Practice will always make you better at anything, but you will always reach a limit. If that's lower than the best, people will always find another reason for their lack of results. Better kit is just one of them - Nike pretty much rely on that!!!

Two things always strike me in this 'argument' - that people who are not talented at one thing have no talent at another, and that if people are talented they must always rise to the top. Ayrton Senna was once asked who his greatest rival ever was, and he replied Terry Fullerton. Look him up...
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Old 06-18-2012, 02:18 PM   #328
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I agree, practice matters. But there are diminishing returns. You'll see your biggest leaps in improvement early, and then they will start to taper off to the point where you'll wonder if you've improved from one year to the next. You'll rightfully question if practice even works anymore.

In my experience, it does. But the gains are small, and it's important to find new ways to challenge yourself. You end up working on the edges of your game rather than the middle, if that makes sense. Unfortunately, sometimes all that practice doesn't translate to anything when you leave the comfy confines of your own home. You go to big races where guys have practiced as much or more than you, and have been to a hundred big races in their lives. It's difficult to hang with that kind of experience. That's the kind of thing you have to leave home to get better at. It's definitely been the weakest part of my game. I left the last two out of town races I attended (Albuquerque'11 / Snowbirds'11) feeling like I didn't even deserve to be in the building. I guess it's how you deal with those experiences that will determine what kind of racer you become.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:00 PM   #329
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Talent is overrated. I've never seen a fast r/c driver and thought wow he's talented. What I see is are drivers with heart, desire and hard work (8 hours on track, every day).
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #330
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I agree, practice matters. But there are diminishing returns. You'll see your biggest leaps in improvement early, and then they will start to taper off to the point where you'll wonder if you've improved from one year to the next. You'll rightfully question if practice even works anymore.

In my experience, it does. But the gains are small, and it's important to find new ways to challenge yourself. You end up working on the edges of your game rather than the middle, if that makes sense. Unfortunately, sometimes all that practice doesn't translate to anything when you leave the comfy confines of your own home. You go to big races where guys have practiced as much or more than you, and have been to a hundred big races in their lives. It's difficult to hang with that kind of experience. That's the kind of thing you have to leave home to get better at. It's definitely been the weakest part of my game. I left the last two out of town races I attended (Albuquerque'11 / Snowbirds'11) feeling like I didn't even deserve to be in the building. I guess it's how you deal with those experiences that will determine what kind of racer you become.
Exactly. But the taper off in improvement is mathematics, learning "curve," comes with all learning.

Keeping with the sports analogies like someone working on their post moves or jump shop. That's why you are top driver at state level and with attending big races can conquer those on a national level too. Believe
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