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Old 06-03-2012, 02:57 PM   #226
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Although I agree that boost is generally too complicated and too fast for newbies to handle, the argument that it in itself reduces headcounts is BS the more I think about it. IMO, what creates a lack of entries is a lack of proper leadership.

If blinky (or any slower class) just isn't popular in a given area and there is a small population of rookies that are interested in getting started it is the club's management that is solely responsible for creating an environment that is suitable for new guys to learn without impeding the progress of the far more advanced. As much as the new guys should have a place to learn, the fast guys deserve a place to push their own envelope. After all, they've kind of earned it once they've put in the time and effort to get to that level. Just because the local standard is 13.5 boosted [for instance] doesn't mean all 13.5 boosted have to run in the same qualifier or main. Break it up. When their 6 minutes gets to within say... 115% of TQ, add 'em to the masses. Why is this complicated? So you add another heat to satisfy 2 rookies. Big deal... an extra 45 minutes added to your 5 hour program. This points to what these seasoned guys are talking about when it comes to working your way up.

It seems like a lot of people would rather shake up things with massive changes than rely on common sense and solid leadership to run their operation.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:18 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Lessen View Post
Although I agree that boost is generally too complicated and too fast for newbies to handle, the argument that it in itself reduces headcounts is BS the more I think about it. IMO, what creates a lack of entries is a lack of proper leadership.

If blinky (or any slower class) just isn't popular in a given area and there is a small population of rookies that are interested in getting started it is the club's management that is solely responsible for creating an environment that is suitable for new guys to learn without impeding the progress of the far more advanced. As much as the new guys should have a place to learn, the fast guys deserve a place to push their own envelope. After all, they've kind of earned it once they've put in the time and effort to get to that level. Just because the local standard is 13.5 boosted [for instance] doesn't mean all 13.5 boosted have to run in the same qualifier or main. Break it up. When their 6 minutes gets to within say... 115% of TQ, add 'em to the masses. Why is this complicated? So you add another heat to satisfy 2 rookies. Big deal... an extra 45 minutes added to your 5 hour program. This points to what these seasoned guys are talking about when it comes to working your way up.

It seems like a lot of people would rather shake up things with massive changes than rely on common sense and solid leadership to run their operation.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:25 PM   #228
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We used to have blinky, it was called brushed motors. I don't remember that tearing the hobby apart...

You're right, racing isn't fair. In my area, boosted was tearing us apart because it was making the cars too fast for most people, and it was definitely making the performance disparity larger because so many people could not sort out their programming and gearing. Even when people copy set-ups from the manufacturers or their friends, they can't get on ith them due to different driving styles, use of a different motor or differing levels of grip at different tracks. For us, blinky has brought is all back together.
When our track went completely blinky, I know of at least 4 people that walked away from the hobby and many others that went strictly "Mod" and they won't race blinky. I didn't see any new racers come in to take their place.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:22 PM   #229
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When our track went completely blinky, I know of at least 4 people that walked away from the hobby and many others that went strictly "Mod" and they won't race blinky. I didn't see any new racers come in to take their place.
That doesn't sound like a problem with blinky or boosted, that sounds like a track management problem. If 4+ people wanted a class and the track wouldn't run it, that's a track turning business away. If the track said "run blinky or go away" that's just stupid. Both are track management issues, not class rules issues.

At the local level 3+ people who agree on a set of rules should MAKE a class. If 3+ people agree on a rule set and a schedule and show up it shouldn't matter to the track what they want to run. If they all want to run 8.5T boosted but only with power to the FR and RL wheels every Tuesday at 8 for 8 weeks, why would the track say no? It's a dumb class, but who cares, people are racing. Isn't that the real goal? Running established rules/classes is better for the long term, but if it gets people on the track who really cares?

A track should be talking with its racers and running the classes the racers want to run. That set of classes will change over time as people come and go, technology changes, equipment changes and skill levels change. A class that has 12 drivers one year may dry up and a different one take it's place. A track that doesn't listen to it's racers is bound to fail. Offering classes no one wants to race or not offering classes that people do want to race are both the same issue -- not paying attention to your customers.

So, if your track doesn't run the class you like, what do you do? Talk to the other racers and find out why they don't want to run that class and then work with the ones that express interest on getting them ready to run that class. Teach them, help them learn new skills and techniques. Put your car on the track during practice time. Talk it up. Encourage others. Run a different class to support the track.

Or, you can stop racing and go whine on the internet. That'll help.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:21 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
That doesn't sound like a problem with blinky or boosted, that sounds like a track management problem. If 4+ people wanted a class and the track wouldn't run it, that's a track turning business away. If the track said "run blinky or go away" that's just stupid. Both are track management issues, not class rules issues.

At the local level 3+ people who agree on a set of rules should MAKE a class. If 3+ people agree on a rule set and a schedule and show up it shouldn't matter to the track what they want to run. If they all want to run 8.5T boosted but only with power to the FR and RL wheels every Tuesday at 8 for 8 weeks, why would the track say no? It's a dumb class, but who cares, people are racing. Isn't that the real goal? Running established rules/classes is better for the long term, but if it gets people on the track who really cares?

A track should be talking with its racers and running the classes the racers want to run. That set of classes will change over time as people come and go, technology changes, equipment changes and skill levels change. A class that has 12 drivers one year may dry up and a different one take it's place. A track that doesn't listen to it's racers is bound to fail. Offering classes no one wants to race or not offering classes that people do want to race are both the same issue -- not paying attention to your customers.

So, if your track doesn't run the class you like, what do you do? Talk to the other racers and find out why they don't want to run that class and then work with the ones that express interest on getting them ready to run that class. Teach them, help them learn new skills and techniques. Put your car on the track during practice time. Talk it up. Encourage others. Run a different class to support the track.

Or, you can stop racing and go whine on the internet. That'll help.
I haven't been to a track yet that wouldn't run a class as long as there were three entries. Perhaps that track runs differently but so much of the stuff I read on here sounds like BS made up to bolster weak arguments. Perhaps the people that left were burning up a motor every week or got sick of buying $200 dollar motors just to compete at the club level.
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:02 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
That doesn't sound like a problem with blinky or boosted, that sounds like a track management problem. If 4+ people wanted a class and the track wouldn't run it, that's a track turning business away. If the track said "run blinky or go away" that's just stupid. Both are track management issues, not class rules issues.

At the local level 3+ people who agree on a set of rules should MAKE a class. If 3+ people agree on a rule set and a schedule and show up it shouldn't matter to the track what they want to run. If they all want to run 8.5T boosted but only with power to the FR and RL wheels every Tuesday at 8 for 8 weeks, why would the track say no? It's a dumb class, but who cares, people are racing. Isn't that the real goal? Running established rules/classes is better for the long term, but if it gets people on the track who really cares?

A track should be talking with its racers and running the classes the racers want to run. That set of classes will change over time as people come and go, technology changes, equipment changes and skill levels change. A class that has 12 drivers one year may dry up and a different one take it's place. A track that doesn't listen to it's racers is bound to fail. Offering classes no one wants to race or not offering classes that people do want to race are both the same issue -- not paying attention to your customers.

So, if your track doesn't run the class you like, what do you do? Talk to the other racers and find out why they don't want to run that class and then work with the ones that express interest on getting them ready to run that class. Teach them, help them learn new skills and techniques. Put your car on the track during practice time. Talk it up. Encourage others. Run a different class to support the track.

Or, you can stop racing and go whine on the internet. That'll help.
The local track is hosting the ROAR On Road Nats this year and they are only running the ROAR classes.
The owner never said: "run blinky or go away" he just figured people would change their setup to run blinky. Some people decided to just cut their loses and leave the hobby.
No whining, just the way it is!
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:18 PM   #232
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I haven't been to a track yet that wouldn't run a class as long as there were three entries. Perhaps that track runs differently but so much of the stuff I read on here sounds like BS made up to bolster weak arguments. Perhaps the people that left were burning up a motor every week or got sick of buying $200 dollar motors just to compete at the club level.
I've never seen anyone burn up a motor trying to keep up at the club level. Heck I've only seen one guy burn up a motor at our track. He didn't burn it up trying to keep up he was trying, not to win, but to destroy the competition. If you're willing to push your equipment so hard that it operates outside of its designed parameters then oh well. Your fault. Funny thing is that this guy was already a top three car. In that type of situation boost wouldn't have saved that motor either.
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:50 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
We used to have blinky, it was called brushed motors. I don't remember that tearing the hobby apart...


Years ago i remember racing for 4 minutes and thinking, "this is great!".

Now i race for 10 minutes in a chassis that is AWD, 8lbs, with excessive HP. Now i think, "this is AWESOME!".

All we ever wanted was more power and more runtime. LiPo and brushless tech gave us that (with near zero maintenance), boosted setups were just a by product.

Brushed wasnt blinky, brushed was a nightmare. And sure it pushed people away from the hobby... not everyone wanted to have to buy a motor lathe and learn how to true and maintain their motors... or buy a dyno and learn all of the extra tricks you needed to know to find the HP everyone else had.

At least now, in a generation where the majority of people OWN laptops and have the know how to manipulate them, you can find the power you want in a near zero maintenance class... how was brushed the 'blinky' of yesteryear?

It is true back then, a friend would true your motors for you... maybe even tweak it up for you for a small fee... or even free. But how is that any different than using someones laptop, or having them tweak your speedo for you now? Oh... i get it... people cant get around the track as fast with someone elses help now... as they couldnt then. Except now... there seems to be a legitmate debate as to WHY (technology/boost/expense).

PLEASE.

The fast will always be fast... until the powers that be continue to clip their nuts off... so slower racers can have a fighting chance. Is that the arguement here?
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Old 06-04-2012, 01:59 AM   #234
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Slow (blinky) and fast class (mod).
Slow drivers race in slow class.
Fast drivers race in fast class.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:01 AM   #235
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I've never seen anyone burn up a motor trying to keep up at the club level. Heck I've only seen one guy burn up a motor at our track. He didn't burn it up trying to keep up he was trying, not to win, but to destroy the competition. If you're willing to push your equipment so hard that it operates outside of its designed parameters then oh well. Your fault. Funny thing is that this guy was already a top three car. In that type of situation boost wouldn't have saved that motor either.
I should have been more clear. I was being sarcastic with the last line. Just a couple of the things bandied about relentlessly by some of the people who can't quit whining about blinky and just race.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:12 AM   #236
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Very sad to see this thread again, the open post was clearly a troll to spark this debate again.

It is very very sad to see the same narrow minded people posting the same incorrect information. Everyone is intilted to there opinion but posting wrong information is something else.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:34 AM   #237
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Were all intilted to be very, very, very, sad... again...
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:38 AM   #238
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... people who can't quit whining about blinky and just race.
People wouldnt be whining about blinky if other people hadnt whined so much about boosted and ruined classes for everyone else... theres always a flip side.

The rest of us said 'eff it' and left the classes that were regulated by blinky... or found other hobbies.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:50 AM   #239
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People wouldnt be whining about blinky if other people hadnt whined so much about boosted and ruined classes for everyone else... theres always a flip side.

The rest of us said 'eff it' and left the classes that were regulated by blinky... or found other hobbies.
I'll race either, doesn't much matter to me. Most tracks I've been to will run a class for three or more entries. If there were really that many committed to running boost, they would still be racing boost. Showing up to race will say a lot more than crying on RCTech.
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:06 AM   #240
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If there were really that many committed to running boost, they would still be racing boost. Showing up to race will say a lot more than crying on RCTech.
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