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Old 05-08-2012, 07:01 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Chaz955i View Post
It isn't a challenge, nor is it supposed to be. The leader already beat the person they are lapping by putting them down a lap or more. The challenge for the leader is to beat the person immediately behind them, not figure out a way to get through backmarkers.
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
We weren't talking about a faster car trying to overtake for position. We are discussing a lapped car holding up the leader, fighting for the "position" and costing the leader time. This wasn't a discussion about racing for position and I don't think a single person here has advocated that a leading car needs to yield an actual position to a faster car behind him... If the leader makes a mistake and you find yourself ahead of him in the race, then all bets are off and he needs to find a clean way around you. But that is a vastly different situation than holding up the leader who is already 9.9/10ths of a lap ahead of you....
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #62
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If you're racing for position, you're exactly right. If you are in a situation where you are a backmarker, the above statement couldn't be more wrong.

There's nothing worse than listening to a driver after the race say "Yeah he was coming around to lap me two minutes in, but I kept him behind me for the rest of the race." There should be no feeling of accomplishment in this situation, as the leader probably just backed off to keep clean.

I adhere to the "Three Strikes" lapping rule. I try corner one, and if it doesn't happen, Strike one. Next corner if it doesn't happen, strike two. Come corner three, I swing for the fences.
+1... The only exception might involve racing for position during a main event. If you're a backmarker and holding up a faster car during qualifying, 3 turns is more than enough time to allow a faster car around you. If the shoe's on the other foot someday, you'd certainly appreciate the courtesy being extended to you - why not reciprocate that courtesy when going a lap down?
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #63
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i believe even in nascar...drivers who are laps down dont even try to do anything not unless if they get the lap back and try to get to the front....say when a caution happens and who ever is next qualified driver, that car gets back a free lap putting that person/driver in the same lap with everyone else. if that driver is only a lap down...(of course you already knew this).

in our case in this "toy" race....there is no such thing as caution and getting a lap back just to get back in the race contention. just like when one of the guys posted here...if youre obviously a lap down already (not to mention only 2 cars is running) and slower than the lead car...i dont understand why wouldnt even anybody just simply move out of the way, because clearly there will be no caution and no car or anyone would get back in the so-called lead lap when compared to nascar . oh, might i add....there isnt this so-called team mates because there isnt any......
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post

I adhere to the "Three Strikes" lapping rule. I try corner one, and if it doesn't happen, Strike one. Next corner if it doesn't happen, strike two. Come corner three, I swing for the fences.
+1

Yes, nothing teaches track etiquette like pulling your car off in a dustpan. Then again for those that can't understand that when they are getting lapped, they are technically out of the race maybe learning the hard way is the only way they will ever get it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:16 PM   #65
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Ron, you stirred up a good conversation I see. Just make sure when I get back to VA this year you move over for me,
Yet me know when you are racing and I'll stay home [LOL], no worries I'll let go.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #66
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Here's my second post:

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In the MOD main, what I notice was most of the contact was made by the slower car trying to give the faster car position moving either left or right on the short straights or moving outside in the corners when the faster was attempting a pass on the outside.

It seems to me that when all drivers know that they should hold there line, that way when a faster car comes up on a slower car they know what the slower car is going to do and there are no unexpected moves unless they are trying to block.
Most of the contact was made by the faster car not knowing what the slower car was going to do, they were not trying to block they were trying to get out of the way and getting in the way. Hold your line and the faster car knows what they are going to do and pass accordingly.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:40 PM   #67
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Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo.
In IFMAR qualifying, that's essentially what you're doing, since everyone is on their own clock. There just happens to be multiple cars on the track at the same time. That's basically what F1 does as well.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:45 PM   #68
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In IFMAR qualifying, that's essentially what you're doing, since everyone is on their own clock. There just happens to be multiple cars on the track at the same time. That's basically what F1 does as well.
Yep, for that matter when I raced dirt bikes at the local level it was a given that when getting lapped to move over when safe and let the leaders by. Surprising to me that we are this many posts in and still debating it, but just proof that there are more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:39 AM   #69
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3 corners and I'm showing you the edge of the track, simple as.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:15 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
I agree with this one. +1
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:22 AM   #71
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Why do fast drivers need slower cars to move over? Joy is in overtaking.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:42 AM   #72
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I'm glad when I started in this hobby the policy was hold your line and the leader would pass you during the race (Main), no 3 corners and I'll give you my bumper, no 3 tenths or 3 seconds. After the main everyone was talking about the pass they made during the main.

Sometimes the best battle on the track is between 3rd and 4th only to see the leader mess-up the only race on the track. Now I see at times people walking off the drivers stand getting hit in the back, people not talking to one another in the pits.

We had a fast guy (very fast), but he couldn't drive he was just fast and most of the people didn't like being on the track with him.
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:51 AM   #73
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The difference of opinions here may stem from why people are racing. If your concerns are fast lap times setting track records and winning I see why you would want cars to give up the racing line. Thankfully the track I and fauxmako race at the drivers are more concerned about good competition, close racing, and having a good time with all of the other drivers on the track. If a slower car has to go wide on every corner or else he pisses someone off then its not much fun for him and there is no reason for him to come back to the track. For the faster drivers a lot of fun comes from their ability to control their car and wait for a clean opportunity to pass the slower car ahead. all of our drivers are well aware of the position of all of the cars on the track and will react accordingly when being lapped. Now we will move over if that is what's needed to keep the race flowing but we will have a nice friendly race too. Again position is not our greatest concern. Racing clean and having fun is #1. We have never had a driver get mad because someone wouldn't give up the line. However we have had plenty of drivers get pissed because the fastest car at the track had a 2 turn rule then he intentionally put you in the wall. Even if it was for position.

FYI the blue flag is enforced differently in different series. Some make it mandatory to move over. I'm some series it is merely a warning/suggestion and there is no penalty if you ignore the flag.

That all being said I have given up plenty of corners and I have had plenty of corners given to me. I have also had a lot of fun racing with a lapped car when he made me wait for it and pass cleanly. I also understand that a lot of fast drivers are only that....fast. They hot lap and don't know how to negotiate traffic cleanly. I have seen these drivers and will happily move over so I don't get rear ended. Don't worry when I come to your track I will happily yield to the faster drivers since the majority of opinions here seem to be to move over. I expect the same when I'm lapping you at your home track.

For the 3 second 3 turn 2 chances "rules" try that one in ful scale racing. Heck try that one at a rc trophy race. I bet you get cussed pretty bad for intentionally wrecking another car because he wouldn't "give" you the track. Slower cars have no obligation to move over for you. It is a curtosey and not mandated. Wrecking them because you think you waited long enough isn't cool.

This is not a all or nothing situation and it apparently works differenty at different tracks. Know your fellow drivers. Even have a drivers meeting at the next race to get their opinion and race according to what everyone wants. When visiting another track yield the position at least until you find out now the home town drivers like to race.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:45 AM   #74
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If I am lap traffic and I am not racing for position, I will move over.

If I am racing for position, say I'm racing for fouth for example, and I am either chashing down third or racing to stay in fourth, I will hold my line. Most times, I will tell the guys that are approaching that I can't move over because of this, and most guys will understand. I race clean and fair and with respect. No one has given me grief over this.
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:15 AM   #75
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The three corner rule is in effect almost everywhere , whether you know it or not.

The only reason these guys get impatient is that there is often a 2nd place car who will also be coming....have you ever heard "first place is behind you #5....and second to follow"? It's not just a go fast ego stroke, they're trying to maintain their lead.
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