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Old 05-08-2012, 02:41 PM   #46
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I have the pleasure of running with some of the fastest guys on the east coast every week.I have become a master at getting out of the way
Depending on the situation..I usually try and give the leader a heads up as
to were to overtake "outside...this turn ect". It's been working pretty good for me so far and have yet to mess up anyone's race (yet lol).
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:05 PM   #47
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All this talk about a lap down does not take into account the type of Racing you are in. There are many types : clean, smooth, aggressive, and the derby..... For the most part I've been stuck on the derby type because of accidents during the qualifiers, and I can tell you that I ran many mains a lap down while it was clear that I was much faster than the leader, and the leader tried to wreck me so I would not catchup. I say if you find yourselves in the derby type of Racing , then there are NO rules ! In any of the other types of Racing, respect the leader......
By the way, if your Car gets hit every ten seconds or less, it's DERBY TIME!!!!!!!
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:06 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
Full size racing has blue flags specifically for this reason.
NASCAR Blue Flag:

The blue flag with a yellow stripe is shown to warn slow drivers of faster cars approaching. NASCAR rarely black-flags drivers for not obeying this flag; however, it is frequently displayed and warnings may be given if it is blatant (such as a lapped driver blocking for a teammate). NASCAR uses the yellow diagonal stripe on the blue flag because the flag is usually displayed on top of the starter's stand, and not at eye-level to the driver from the track.

Are you actually being lapped if you let someone pass you?

Lap : to overtake and thereby lead or increase the lead over (another contestant) by a full circuit of a racecourse.

Did you overtake someone or did they let you by?

I don't want you to get me wrong during the main I let the leader by, but what kind of challenge is that. It just seems if you want people to get out of your way, why have a main just have an another qualifier or set the mains with cars with the same number of laps.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:20 PM   #49
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Where I race we have a few really fast guys who are all about the same pace, and then guys who typically finish 2, 3, 5 and more laps behind after eight minutes. We move over if we're down, especially if there is a battle coming through. One guy who usually finishes just a lap or two behind hates to be lapped... and I've executed some killer millimeter-perfect overtakes on him from time to time, and hit him a few times as well. No punts, but taps and recoveries.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:24 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead View Post
NASCAR Blue Flag:

The blue flag with a yellow stripe is shown to warn slow drivers of faster cars approaching. NASCAR rarely black-flags drivers for not obeying this flag; however, it is frequently displayed and warnings may be given if it is blatant (such as a lapped driver blocking for a teammate). NASCAR uses the yellow diagonal stripe on the blue flag because the flag is usually displayed on top of the starter's stand, and not at eye-level to the driver from the track.

Are you actually being lapped if you let someone pass you?

Lap : to overtake and thereby lead or increase the lead over (another contestant) by a full circuit of a racecourse.

Did you overtake someone or did they let you by?

I don't want you to get me wrong during the main I let the leader by, but what kind of challenge is that. It just seems if you want people to get out of your way, why have a main just have an another qualifier or set the mains with cars with the same number of laps.
It isn't a challenge, nor is it supposed to be. The leader already beat the person they are lapping by putting them down a lap or more. The challenge for the leader is to beat the person immediately behind them, not figure out a way to get through backmarkers.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:28 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblehead View Post
NASCAR Blue Flag:

The blue flag with a yellow stripe is shown to warn slow drivers of faster cars approaching. NASCAR rarely black-flags drivers for not obeying this flag; however, it is frequently displayed and warnings may be given if it is blatant (such as a lapped driver blocking for a teammate). NASCAR uses the yellow diagonal stripe on the blue flag because the flag is usually displayed on top of the starter's stand, and not at eye-level to the driver from the track. [it doesn't say move over]

Are you actually being lapped if you let someone pass you?

Lap : to overtake and thereby lead or increase the lead over (another contestant) by a full circuit of a racecourse.

Did you overtake someone or did they let you by?

I don't want you to get me wrong during the main I let the leader by, but what kind of challenge is that. It just seems if you want people to get out of your way, why have a main just have an another qualifier or set the mains with cars with the same number of laps.
In your case, Ron, I think it was OK for you to make him work for it. With only two cars on the track, you weren't going to catch up to him unless he flamed out. He was clearly faster and the main was incredibly boring to watch. The only excitement was the 30 seconds that you fought him to stay on the lead lap. At the end of the day, if you had taken him out, nothing would have been gained or lost in the process. We know who the fastest car was. Each situation is going to be different. On the rug, I was a half lap up on second with less than a minute to go. Lap traffic decided to fight me and ended up putting me into the wall and breaking my car. That's when it gets frustrating. Someone who obviously had no chance of winning took out the leader and changed the outcome of the race. Moral victories suck. Look at each situation for what it is. What can you gain by blocking the leader? What do you stand to lose by letting him go? What is going to happen when you don't let him go and one of you ends up broken? Was it worth it? If you were a lot faster than him and only down because of a flameout or something like that and there was still time left to make up the deficit, then fight to hold your position and try to get the lap back. If there's no chance of getting the lap back, then let him pass and live to fight another day.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:31 PM   #52
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I thought it was 3 turns... move over within 3 turns or get punted. Don't be a clock blocker!
Ahhh there it is. The punt. I get out of the way of the fast guys and acually enjoy swinging a little wide then dropping back in behind just to follow their line (drafting ) But on occassions, I get the punt because I plan to go wide on turn 2 while the fast guy wants it on turn 1. But if you're not going for the gap you're not racing.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:49 PM   #53
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I guess we define blocking differently, I did not move left or right in front of him or move inside or outside in the corners. Now if I was trying to keep him behind me by moving all over the track that's blocking.
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Old 05-08-2012, 03:57 PM   #54
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I guess we define blocking differently, I did not move left or right in front of him or move inside or outside in the corners. Now if I was trying to keep him behind me by moving all over the track that's blocking.
I don't think that we define it differently. I just think there are other definitions of blocking. If the driver behind you is clearly faster and you are holding your line, preventing him from passing, you are blocking his path. I always hold my line for position. Call it what you want. At the ROAR onroad nats last year, I made Rick Howhart earn the pass. I think it took him almost 2 turns one time.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:34 PM   #55
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I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
This is not a matter of debate, what you imply is simply incorrect

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/99/san/tytler.html

Quote:
"4.1.2 d) Light Blue flag:

This should normally be waved, as an indication to a driver that he is about to be overtaken. It has different meanings during practice and the race.

At all times: A stationary flag should be displayed to a driver leaving the pits if traffic is approaching on the track.

During practice: Give way to a faster car which is about to overtake you.

During the race: The flag should normally be shown to a car about to be lapped and, when shown, the driver concerned must allow the following car to pass at the earliest opportunity."

This is very clear - if you are a backmarker and a blue flag is being waved at you, then you are about to be lapped and you must yield right of way.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:32 PM   #58
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Ron, you stirred up a good conversation I see. Just make sure when I get back to VA this year you move over for me,
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:49 PM   #59
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hey john h.

thats was the first thing i thought of when i saw/read the title......
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:57 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FauxMako View Post
I've been trying to stay out of this, but can't anymore.

Driving the race line is not blocking, ever, no matter the relative speed of the cars or their position on the scoreboard. The overtaker has to find a clean place to pass, period. The fastest car does not always win a race. A driver that gets in front, drives a perfect line and doesn't make mistakes can win over cars that are faster but can't find a place to pass cleanly. Punting someone for driving the racing line is wrong. Blocking -- intentionally changing your course to prevent a pass -- is wrong. If you aren't enough faster than someone to get around them cleanly your options are to wait for them to make a mistake, pressure them into making a mistake or stay behind them. You hit them and you are in the wrong, not them.

Good racing comes from people competing, not from slower cars pulling over and letting faster cars go by. If that's what you want, everyone should qualify solo. Then we don't to even need to run the mains as you've already determined the finishing order since the fastest guy has the right of way. Line them up and run the victory lap since the finishing order is determined by qualifying speeds.

Race. Compete.
If you're racing for position, you're exactly right. If you are in a situation where you are a backmarker, the above statement couldn't be more wrong.

There's nothing worse than listening to a driver after the race say "Yeah he was coming around to lap me two minutes in, but I kept him behind me for the rest of the race." There should be no feeling of accomplishment in this situation, as the leader probably just backed off to keep clean.

I adhere to the "Three Strikes" lapping rule. I try corner one, and if it doesn't happen, Strike one. Next corner if it doesn't happen, strike two. Come corner three, I swing for the fences.
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