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Old 02-07-2005, 08:54 PM   #46
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To me, a lot of the problem stems from the fact that this is not an all out Factory Team Kit and people are expecting it to be one. This is the first version, just a standard Team Car. Much like any product, you look at how the car is being marketed it's not the all out, balls to the wall, everything in the box kit that the FT kit will eventually be. Was a 10 rating for fit and finish a mistake. I think so. Does the car deserve a 0-1 for fit and finish though? Heck no. This is XRC's back yard so I don't want to step on Shane or Derek's toes. I just read Shane's review for the first time. What he said about the TC4 on asphalt is almost the same I said in my review of the car on carpet. Does the car have some slop? Yes. Should AE have included some shims to take care of this? Yes. I put the Graphite Kit on my car and the majority of the slop was gone. It's also hard for people to not compare this car that needs a different setup to the TC3's they've been driving with the same basic setup on for the last 5 years. Just my 2 cents....
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:00 PM   #47
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Default I would rather date her then a tc4 =)

Dereck you dont seem to get it my friend, this is not a topic about the TC4.

this is a topic about what magazines say, and what the consumers say

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Old 02-07-2005, 09:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by TCR
sorry that part of the post was off topic, it was just an idea,
btw,
graphite conversion kit, roughly 50 bucks discounted
shafts and dog bones are the same size, just different thixcknesses,
change the steering rack, and I think one tie rod or 2 and your pretty much there.
bearing are the same diffs are the same, there a few more parts, but it can be done for less then the price of buying a tc4.

this whole response is off topic

I don't mean to keep harping on your post but you brought up the review being that you should just convert your TC3. Here is the list of most of the major parts

31000 TC4 Chassis $24.99
31001 TC4 Chassis Braces Set $6.99
31003 TC4 Steering Rack Set $4.99
31004 TC4 Steering Block & Hub Carrier Set $7.99
31006 TC4 Suspension Arms, front Pr. $6.99
31008 TC4 Suspension Arms, rear Pr. $6.99
31010 TC4 Arm Mount Shims (6), Balls (4), Wheelbase Shims (6) Set $2.99
31011 TC4 Shock Tower, front $4.99
31013 TC4 Shock Tower, rear $5.99
31015 TC4 Caster Block, 0 degrees Pr. $3.99
31019 TC4 Driveshaft Accessories. Spur gear hub, drive cups, bulkhead. Set $3.99
31020 TC4 Heatsink Motor Mount, black $20.99
31021 TC4 Main Driveshaft $12.99
31022 TC4 Steering Bellcrank Posts $4.99
2225 TC4/NTC3 Bumper Top Plate $2.50
2229 Swing Rack Hardware Set $7.00
31034 TC4 HD CVD Bones Pr. $21.99

Which totals $172 and that's not including lots of other stuff. So what was your point again? AE has always "evolved" their cars. I'm not sure what you were trying to prove except that we withheld info that would sell more TC4s yet if I were going to buy a new car I'd pay the extra $20 for the kit. I think having the reader get more for his money is a better idea than a list of parts (which is clearly listed on AE's website of shared parts).

I need to eat.
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:11 PM   #49
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:30 PM   #50
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Here's a perfect example of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about. Let's go over the ratings, shall we?

Quote:
Originally posted by TCR
this is all I mean

Acceleration • Rating: 10
Top Speed • Rating: 10
Braking • Rating: 9
The TC4 is just as fast and accelerates just as well as anything I've driven. The braking was smooth and solid, although I couldn't get on them as hard as I would have liked. But that was a minor complaint.

Quote:

Low-Speed Handling • Rating: 8
High-Speed Handling • Rating: 8
Rough-Track Handling • Rating: 9
The car handled well out of the box. Yes, it really did. There were a few issues as I addressed in the text, but guess what? On my first night out at a track I had never raced at, with a car I had never run that was using the stock setup, I was only a few tenths of a second per lap off of the pace.

Is that a 10 in my book? No. But is it a 6? No! I worked with the car and it improved throughout the night, and as I wrote, I'm sure it would have been even better if I continued to work with it. I don't understand where you are taking issue with the ratings here.

Quote:

Tuning • Rating: 10
Damage • Rating: 8
The car has more tuning options than the TC3, and easily as many as anything else on the market. As for Damage, well, it broke--but I also slammed it into a wall at about 30 mph. It didn't just fall apart on the track, nor was it something that I felt was a weak point.

Quote:

Typicall of any review, lowest score is an 8, thats awsome, I cant remember ever seeing anything lower then a 6 in a magazine, ???
To tell you the truth, I have not reviewed a product in the past year that I thought deserved a 6. You are free to say I'm a sellout, but that's not how I feel. Nearly everything I have run has performed exactly as advertised, and in most cases, a final rating came down to whether or not I felt it was a good value in comparison to its peers.

Quote:
BTW you can benchmark an r/c car.
electric--you can get a dyno, for the motor make sure you run it simular + or - 5%
you test batteries and have a standard where the battery was at when you tested it
This is all stuff we did in our shootout.

Quote:
or course things are going to be your opinion, handling, tuning etc.
So you are, in fact, agreeing with me? I don't get it.

Quote:
the difference between the pc mag and rc mag is manufatures listen to the pc mag to make there products better, rc mags will not starit publish a article saying there product is bad.
That is not exactly true; manufacturers of most PC games and peripherals look at sales figures and that is it. I could name twenty games that scored below a 60% in PC Gamer, the leading PC magazine, and still made tens of millions of dollars, and spawned sequels. The reason you see lower ratings in games magazines is because there are many more games that suck than there are RC cars that suck. If you don't see the truth of that statement, then there's nothing I can say to change your mind.

Quote:
nothing I said is meant as knock on the tc4 or extreme. I would buy a tc4 and I would buy xtreme, just saying articles are a bit biased because they pay tons for advertising, in order to keep the price for the consumer down.
I'm not trying to single you out either, but since you are using something I wrote as a basis for completely false statements, I feel obligated to point out exactly how inaccurate the things that you're saying are.
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:35 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gearhead3
You know some R/C things do just plain suck, but i see good rating for them....LOL...Look at the Tamiya TXT-1. We received 6 of them and all of them were defective.

Look at the hot bodies monster truck. we ordered 3 of them to try um out, and they were falling apart in the box, and were missing screews....o well. this will go for ever and ever. Those two trucks should have be called "suckie" Instead i se like a rating of 8 or 9 on these........
That's great, but guess how many of anything we get to test? One...if we're lucky. And if something shows up missing parts or defective, we WILL mention it.

But if something shows up with no defects, what can we do? We run it and test it just as we would anything else. We have no control over what we get sent or how good it will be. If your truck shows up with a problem, that doesn't mean ours showed up with one.

Since most reviews take place before they hit store shelves, we don't hear feedback from the general public before we review something. All we have to work with is what we are sent. About the only difference is that we have a direct line to manufacturers if we have problems, BUT in nearly every case, you can call up a CSR at any of these companies and they will be happy to assist you.
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:40 PM   #52
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Default Spektrum Review (again off topic) sorry

Now the Spectrum dsm is probably the single most inovative and forward thinking device for R/C in a very very long time.

If it does everything it says it does.....

when you reviewed it you had to be full aware of the problems they had in Clevland, (a pro driver I will not name said to my face "he will never run this device again" in pro mod.

why I asked, He said he ran the updated one after cleveland and there is a noticable delay at certain points and when your going 40 mph through a chicane or turn you dont want that delay.

Now it is my understanding this problem was fixed and the driver that told me this had not actually ran the latest version that was realeased to the public.

Knowing of the past developemental issues this product had, test it.

I read that whole article and you didn't answer the one question I wanted answered,

Is it slower?? Is there lag???

Take a car, touring car mod,

run a pack- at a track with the stock radio eqip, recording all lap times.

next run a pack- only changing to the dsm record all lap times

Do it six times in alternation,
stock
dsm
stock
dsm
etc.

take the over all average of the 2 units combined
take the over all average of the stock and dsm units alone
Lap times I'm talking

drop the 5 highest and lowest, post the results, is it a .01 faster slower roughyly the same.

this would be irrelevant to gas, offroad, rtr's, but it's not irrelevant to on-road.

the system is supposed to be faster???
is it?????

I have also read in various places the fit into the m8 is not that tight, and some hitec servos are having issues.

In your article your only miss was
telling your readers they were
SOL if they didn't own one of the radios it was made for.


Quote:
If you don’t already have one of the radios
listed above, you’ll need to buy one or wait
until Spektrum releases a radio!
hits
Quote:
• No glitching
• No crystals
• Never worry about turning on your radio
• Best $150 you can spend
• Uses extisting high-end radios
• Upcoming on-board telemetry module!
this maybe the only product that is so good that it actually deserves a 10, however as good as your review was it was not perfect.

your job is tough, you see stuff all the time, I hope you can accept tough feed back from your readers, everyones a critic,

you guys want to stand out from your competition, do it then, get your hands dirty be creative, I was dissapointed I didn't learn anything new from your article.

these forums are a great resource for you guys and they should be taking advantage of, just a consideration.

Keep up the good work!!!!!

P.S.
no offense but I wouldnt date you though, and I hope you have a sense of humor =)

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Old 02-07-2005, 09:42 PM   #53
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Typicall of any review, lowest score is an 8, thats awsome, I cant remember ever seeing anything lower then a 6 in a magazine, ???

This is from XRC mag on the world 2000 champ Taimya 414m



Acceleration • The stock motor provided some decent acceleration. Running stock reminds me that I like the power of modified. Off the line the MII was on par with the shaft drive cars and other dual belt cars. The car was especially perky in mid speed acceleration. The MII never displayed any torque steer or other odd feeling under acceleration.
Rating: 4.5

Top Speed • The rather tame top speed of stock was adequate for the close quarters of the track. The stock pinion (40-tooth) actually was pretty close to a good ratio for the track. Since top speed is highly dependent on the motor and batteries all that is required for more speed is some extra cash for a mod motor.
Rating: 4.5

Braking • If stopping on the straight was all that was required the MII’s double one-way setup would be great, but unfortunately like all one-way equipped cars if you need to slap on the panic brakes the car will tend to spin out if you are anywhere near a corner. If the kit included a ball diff up front this wouldn’t be a problem. If you are running on a small tight track consider picking up a diff. If you a high-speed sweeping track this setup will work well.
Rating: 3

Low Speed Handling • Through the technical section the MII carved up the turns. Keep the throttle on and point the car in the right direction and the MII handles well. Even in the slower sections letting off the throttle completely breaks the rear loose slightly. This characteristic comes in handy when you want to go into a corner tighter than usual.
Rating: 4.5

High Speed Handling • The stock setup made for a slightly sensitive feel on the straight. It felt a little too sensitive to steering inputs. It felt more like driving a 12-scale car. The MII carried speed through the sweepers well but felt slow coming onto the straight. Overall the car was very predictable at speed.
Rating: 4

Rough Track Handling • Socal is unique in that the outside of the track is a banked oval. This transition to the flat infield created a bumpy transition. The MII held a straight line through the transition and
even over the slightly rough sections felt stable and never felt like it wantedto wander.
Rating: 4.5

Tuning • The MII is adjustable enough to dial the car into any track and condition. The camber link is the only questionable limit to tuning but it looks like Tamiya did their homework since the location seems to work well. The MII also responded well to the changes made. There were noticeable differences in the cars handling, but not huge jumps that could cause some confusion in tuning. I stuck with the stock springs and made small changes to get a feel for the track and car. I was able to make improvements with changes to shock angle and ride height.
Rating: 4.5

Damage • I sometimes like to play jump the corner dots and before I got used to the track I sent the Tamiya for a few rides in the air. Aside from a few scratches on the chassis nothing broke. For some reason it felt like I should have painted a target on the body since I think everybody in the A-main and qualifying wanted to borrow some paint off the body. Even through some T-bone action nothing broke or felt tweaked after the collision festival, oops,I mean A-main.
Damage: 4.5

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Old 02-07-2005, 09:45 PM   #54
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: Spektrum Review (again off topic) sorry

Quote:
Originally posted by TCR
Now the Spectrum dsm is probably the single most inovative and forward thinking device for R/C in a very very long time.

If it does everything it says it does.....
Now this is just getting humorous.

Quote:
when you reviewed it you had to be full aware of the problems they had in Clevland, (a pro driver I will not name said to my face "he will never run this device again" in pro mod.
Were you there? Did you drive it? Mickey Mouse told me that FM radios don't work, so I have only used AM for the past 7 years.

Quote:
why I asked, He said he ran the updated one after cleveland and there is a noticable delay at certain points and when your going 40 mph through a chicane or turn you dont want that delay.
We have two in the office. No problems whatsoever. Stephen races with his on a weekly basis. And remember, A-Main drivers used this at the Worlds.

Quote:
I read that whole article and you didn't answer the one question I wanted answered,

Is it slower?? Is there lag???
Unfortunately, we are still working the bugs out of our Reader Mind Reader (RMR) software (patent pending). Hopefully within a few issues we will be able to accurately respond to each and every one of your questions before they form in your mind.

Quote:
this maybe the only product that is so good that it actually deserves a 10, however as good as your review was it was not perfect.
Our review unit worked perfectly every time we ran it, and we have had no problems since. See my earlier post about testing what we get. All we can report is what we experience--we don't make up our reviews. And we experienced the Spektrum working just fine.

I am not sure why you are so bent on "proving" that our magazine is incapable of producing an accurate review--did a magazine beat you up on the playground as a kid? I don't get it!
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:58 PM   #56
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Default Can I buy you a drink

Future :: I could go back and explain everything to you like you so nicely did, but why waste my time, this topic is about rc mag vs consumer internet report

the TC4 was just an example someone else brought up, for all I know I would of gave it the same score,

I just dont think your reviews start from a rating system of 1, more like a rating system of 5 to 10 and not 1 -10

If you tell me and the people reading this, that there is absolutly no influence from your advertisers when you start thinking about your reviews, thats fine, I'll take your word. If you said that some where I missed it.

Do you want reader feedback, or do you guys do things so perfect that everyone who reads it and has an differing opinion must be wrong?

your defending something you wrote, I would do the same, but I'm not attacking somthing you wrote, I was only agreeing with one fo your Moderaters here..

Quote:
Originally posted by MarkA
No magazine publisher will ever admit to it (at least not here or in any public forum) but the bottom line is that they have to consider their advertisers, especially in an industry where the number of companies able and willing to buy multiple full-page ads is very small.

“Consumer on the Internet” answers to nobody.

We’ve had many threads on this sort of topic before.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:01 PM   #57
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Default Re: Re: Spektrum Review (again off topic) sorry

Quote:
Originally posted by futureal
Now this is just getting humorous.



Were you there? Did you drive it? Mickey Mouse told me that FM radios don't work, so I have only used AM for the past 7 years.



We have two in the office. No problems whatsoever. Stephen races with his on a weekly basis. And remember, A-Main drivers used this at the Worlds.



Unfortunately, we are still working the bugs out of our Reader Mind Reader (RMR) software (patent pending). Hopefully within a few issues we will be able to accurately respond to each and every one of your questions before they form in your mind.



Our review unit worked perfectly every time we ran it, and we have had no problems since. See my earlier post about testing what we get. All we can report is what we experience--we don't make up our reviews. And we experienced the Spektrum working just fine.

I am not sure why you are so bent on "proving" that our magazine is incapable of producing an accurate review--did a magazine beat you up on the playground as a kid? I don't get it!
wow nevermind you sound like a child, seriously read what you wrote.

So I guess your saying screw your readers there all children
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:01 PM   #58
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Default Re: Spektrum Review (again off topic) sorry

Quote:
Originally posted by TCR
Now the Spectrum dsm is probably the single most inovative and forward thinking device for R/C in a very very long time.

If it does everything it says it does.....

when you reviewed it you had to be full aware of the problems they had in Clevland, (a pro driver I will not name said to my face "he will never run this device again" in pro mod.

why I asked, He said he ran the updated one after cleveland and there is a noticable delay at certain points and when your going 40 mph through a chicane or turn you dont want that delay.

Now it is my understanding this problem was fixed and the driver that told me this had not actually ran the latest version that was realeased to the public.

Knowing of the past developemental issues this product had, test it.

I read that whole article and you didn't answer the one question I wanted answered,

Is it slower?? Is there lag???

Take a car, touring car mod,

run a pack- at a track with the stock radio eqip, recording all lap times.

next run a pack- only changing to the dsm record all lap times

Do it six times in alternation,
stock
dsm
stock
dsm
etc.

take the over all average of the 2 units combined
take the over all average of the stock and dsm units alone
Lap times I'm talking

drop the 5 highest and lowest, post the results, is it a .01 faster slower roughyly the same.

this would be irrelevant to gas, offroad, rtr's, but it's not irrelevant to on-road.

the system is supposed to be faster???
is it?????

I have also read in various places the fit into the m8 is not that tight, and some hitec servos are having issues.

In your article your only miss was
telling your readers they were
SOL if they didn't own one of the radios it was made for.




hits


this maybe the only product that is so good that it actually deserves a 10, however as good as your review was it was not perfect.

your job is tough, you see stuff all the time, I hope you can accept tough feed back from your readers, everyones a critic,

you guys want to stand out from your competition, do it then, get your hands dirty be creative, I was dissapointed I didn't learn anything new from your article.

these forums are a great resource for you guys and they should be taking advantage of, just a consideration.

Keep up the good work!!!!!

P.S.
no offense but I wouldnt date you though, and I hope you have a sense of humor =)

I was fully aware of the glitches they found at Cleveland and that's exactly why we got it 3 weeks after we were supposed to because of Horizon fixing that problem. Was there a lag? Can you really feel a lag. I've been racing for 16 years and if I could tell you that I've ever felt a difference in radios response time I'd be lying.

We can accept feedback just fine when it's based on truth. Just throwing chum in the water and hoping a fish bites isn't what I'd call feed back.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:02 PM   #59
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As has been posted on several other threads like this one...

I'm guessing when truly crappy product is sent in...it's either ignored, or held back from publication and the manufacturer notified so they can adress the shortcomings and try to fix the trouble....

I cuold send in a paper macher car body for them to review...that doesn't mean they're obligated to publish it
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:06 PM   #60
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Default Re: Can I buy you a drink

Quote:
Originally posted by TCR
Future :: I could go back and explain everything to you like you so nicely did, but why waste my time, this topic is about rc mag vs consumer internet report
Translation: I got nothing!

Quote:
the TC4 was just an example someone else brought up, for all I know I would of gave it the same score,
Then why were you using it as an example? That is my POINT!

Quote:
If you tell me and the people reading this, that there is absolutly no influence from your advertisers when you start thinking about your reviews, thats fine, I'll take your word. If you said that some where I missed it.
When I sit down to write a review, I do NOT consider the advertising in my editorial work. Period. I write to the best of my ability based on what I am given. Do we get angry calls from people about what we write on occasion? You better believe it.

Quote:
Do you want reader feedback, or do you guys do things so perfect that everyone who reads it and has an differing opinion must be wrong?
I love getting feedback. It helps me improve at what I'm doing. Everybody at XRC likes feedback. But your posts here were not constructive feedback, they are simply untruths.

Heck, find something actually wrong with the last issue and tell us about it. Go to the forums at www.rc411.com and you'll see people do exactly this. I know we have made mistakes; everybody does. But when you point to something we wrote and in a public forum say "you are wrong" we will certainly defend it if we are not in fact wrong.
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