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Old 02-07-2005, 07:15 AM   #1
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Default factory driver's motor/batteries -vs- store bought

I used SMC and Fusion and I was pretty good with them, but the super fast guys "factory" just makes you just wonder that their equipment is night and day from the store bought stuff
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:24 AM   #2
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Fast is in the wheel....
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:31 AM   #3
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I don't wonder at all. There are unsponsored drivers with store bought equipment that are just as fast or faster than some "factory" drivers. Big races (ie Cleveland) have been won with store bought equipment. One of the techs at last year's Onroad Worlds posted that the numbers on a lot of batteries he tech'd were the same as what you can buy in the store.
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:33 AM   #4
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The fast guys KNOW setup and can drive. One of my friends Michael "Toastie" Toth qualified 2nd in the Stock TC class at the Roar Nationals last year. I know for a fact that the batteries he used for that raced for around 1.165-1.170 volts average at 30A discharage with average runtime. His packs cost him $35 bucks a piece from Kinetix. He tuned the heck out of his hand out motor, setup his car great, and drove is butt off.

Unless your at the Worlds the "factory" drivers stuff usually isn't any better than what you can get over of the counter and in many cases is usually cheaper stuff.
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:35 AM   #5
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I think it appears that way,due to driver skill,set up skills,At the larger races they do get "the good stuff" but for the local races they are using the same motors/batterys that you or i can buy,but with that said they are not using 1,12's..1.17's yes..
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:03 AM   #6
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If we are talking about 50% off drivers, they are most likely getting the same stuff that you can buy off of the shelves, if we are talking about top 5 National Stock drivers, maybe a little better, but not really worth more than a few seconds over a 5 minute run. And as far as the top mod drivers in the US, they might be getting a little more runtime, but more importantly they are getting alot of fresh packs at each race.

But fast is most of the time in the wheel and to an extent the car, its not that people are using crazy stuff.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:09 AM   #7
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Unless your running ahuge oval cornerspeed will beat straight line speed anyday... and motors/batteries don't make a bit of difference there....

I have a freind, my best freind to be exact. Everytime he goes racing he complains he can't get enough speed on the straights..... I keep triing to convince him that he isn't carriing enough speed thru the turns, it's that he isn't being outmotored.... Simply put, in most instances, if a guy is pulling on you anywhere after the last 10% of the straight then it's motor... anywhere before that it's cornerspeed.
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:32 AM   #8
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The factory stuff is with out a doubt better then the stuff you can buy off the shelves. Does it help? Hell yes it helps now in stock its all about batteries and the stuff that a Jeff Cuffs or a Ray Darroch runs versus the stuff the weekend racer runs. I went to Cuffs home track and my sponsor at the time let me run one of his personal packs at this race and his packs versus my packs i picked up 4 secs and i made a mistake that cost me another three over a flawless run i had with my packs the round before the stuff the factory guys run u cant buy and is alot better then the stuff off the shelves. Why else would they remove the labels on the batts.

Now in mod its motor and battery. The motors Matt Francis and Cyrul and Hara and those guys run have all the segments perfectly balanced and each wire on each segment is exactly the same length. Its not like the machine wound stuff you buy from the hobby shop. I have a redline modified that i ran at cleveland and when i put it on a balancer it never stopped in the same place twice because its hand wound and they took the time to do it right, Then i put the new trinty cobalt modified on the balancer right out of the package and it would stop at the same place everytime.

The fact is factory drivers get stuff you cant buy!
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:45 AM   #9
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junior is right....in every hundred batteries...there are a few that are just better than the rest...and of course they are going to go that matchers sponsored drivers...the motors for team drivers...especially in stock, are also the top few that dyno better than the rest....I will say that since the 3300`s...the advantage isnt as great...or that certain drivers, even some that arnt sponsored, dont have better developed skills than most of us....the thing is to practice more...work on your set up skills....race at bigger racers when possible, and you will be suprised at how much the gap will close between you and the factory drivers that you look up to
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:53 AM   #10
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A lot of guys like to flatter themselves and think they could be one of the top 10 if only they had the factory sponsored guy's equipment. The truth is .... 75% of the time, if you were to give your radio to that sponsored driver he would go faster than you with your own car. Try it at your local track, give your car to the sponsored driver, let him make a few adjustments and see what happens. Either they go faster or they find stuff on your car that needs to be fixed.

When I say sponsored I don't mean the guys who aren't 100%.

Companies hand out 50-75% sponsorships like candy IMO. IMO I don't think people should be sponsored unless they reach at least the B-main at the national level.

The way to the top is lots of practice, learn everything about set-up and pay attention to small details on your car ....

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Old 02-07-2005, 11:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by stormperson
..., but more importantly they are getting alot of fresh packs at each race.
I think that is the biggest benefit the "pros" have... fresh product.

Sure their batts are probably a bit better, but unless you have a flawless run you'll not likely see the benefit.

Motors on the other hand... having a motor builder helps tons. Not necessarily because the motors are stronger than you might build, but because of the time the driver can put toward chassis work instead of relentless tuning on motors.
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Old 02-07-2005, 05:01 PM   #12
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The cells I get as a Team Driver for Fukuyama are the same cells you can buy. Same goes for the motors from br00d and any product from Schumacher. If I get prototypes from anyone it would be for testing purposes. Absolute top level drivers may have a little better motors and batts but the reason they're top level drivers isn't because of the batts or motors or any other protypes they may have. They're top level drivers because of their driving skills.
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Kerr
The cells I get as a Team Driver for Fukuyama are the same cells you can buy. Same goes for the motors from br00d and any product from Schumacher. If I get prototypes from anyone it would be for testing purposes. Absolute top level drivers may have a little better motors and batts but the reason they're top level drivers isn't because of the batts or motors or any other protypes they may have. They're top level drivers because of their driving skills.
Cool and well said, these guys don't get the "good" stuff to get fast they were already fast.
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:51 AM   #14
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Ray Darroch who won the Novak race was using both Kintetix motors and batteries. You can buy the exact same stuff he was running from Kinetix. Ron Atomic, the owner, sells 99% of batteries he matches. The other 1% are for him. You can buy the 1.18+ volt cells from Kinetix. He doesn't list them on the web site since there are so few but if you call him you can buy them. Also, the motors he sells are same stuff Ray used to win.

Yes, the very large battery manufacturers keep the cream of the crop for large events but they also go through thousands of cells a month so they still sell very good quality high voltage/runtime cells. You don't have to be sponsored to get some of the best equipment out there but you do have to pay.
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:29 AM   #15
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having been around awhile you learn things. There is alot that me and you dont know about. Yes the factory guys get better stuff. They have special one off stuff. But the amount of guys who get this you dont have to worry about. Ex: Masami, Baker, Blackstock, and Hara a few others. But keep in mind these are guys at the top level. Every team has their secret like any form of auto racing they all bend the rules one way or another! Iam not saying they are cheating but pushing the limit of the rules. They take the time and prepare every aspect of the car to perfection. They also spend hours at the track and try stuff (test) . So when they show up to the track they already won because they where set up before.
The Gap between "factory" and "independant" is smaller. But still exist.
But this really shows at the world level. the national level for these guys is a club race for them. Think about this! You guys out there who run at the top level of your club racing. the gap between a newbie and someone with around 5 years experiance. Even though your equipment is about the same the gap in performance is huge! So now take it to the next level ! the gap between independant and partially sponserd vs full factory there's another gap. if you think your prepared they are ten times ahead of you! Like I said they win before they get there because of preperation, dedication, and determination to win.
Instead of thinking did they get this or that this guy has better stuff or they said this or that! They dont care because the got everything done ahead of time and dont care about the next guy other than race against him.

Pay more attention to your stuff then what the other guy has. You'll get another 20% of performance just by paying attention to detail!
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