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Old 04-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #256
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Yes the radio problems I had were corrected when I switched to the KO. It was a spare radio that Alex Hagberg had with him. He wasnt comfortable with it yet and was still using his Eurus at this event as he had just gotten the EX1 a week prior. Good thing he had it with him!

I was hoping to bring it back but he caught me sneaking it in my suite case! LOL I am radio shopping now though.

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You keep on racing it, that is the problem, you should go to the driver stand and run back down to the hotel room, pack up and take off....
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:13 AM   #257
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One of the biggest series in Europe currently is the LRP-HPI Challange, you have an open chassis choice, restricted body choice and fixed motor, spedo and drive ratio of 4.5. It big for a number of reasons, good promotion and the closeness of the racing. I do not think that there is any other series anywhere that can boast more than 1200+ entrants across the entire series and full fields of 200 drivers at the finals. Crap i think there might have been 30 drivers at the last Australian EP TC Titles.

In the world of big dollar 1:1 racing, the series that are doing well, getting huge crowds are the ones that follow fairly simular formulas, NASCAR, V8 Super Cars in Australia and the like have huge followings because the racing is so close due to in part because of the SPEC nature of the classes.

That said, i think that there is way too much emphisis put on gear in a lot of RC racing, that for the vast majority of drivers should not really be what they are focusing their energy and time on.

In terms of driver abilities and gear, if you look at some random World Champ event and look at the gear being used, you will find multiple combinations of battery, motor, esc, chassis. When you are sponsored and paid to drive a car, you have the best gear your manufaturer can provide, and there is not a lot of difference between all the manufacturers in that regard.

Its at the club and regional type series where the gear disparity becomes an issue, some can afford that $300 ESC which has an advantage over the $60 one. It is here, in the club racer ranks where TRUE spec racing can have a major effect on cost, the closeness of the racing and ultimatly the numbers of drivers who enter an event. And by true spec racing, i mean control tire, esc, motor and max drive ratio.

Controlled classes also need to be flexible, I love the idea of VTA type racing, but 21.5T motors on Aussie tracks are just not going to work because they are going to be way way to slow. My home track as an example is 285 meters long and hosts 1/5th, 1/8 scale IC events. So anything greater than 10.5T is just never going to work in an EP class.

THe funny thing is, when i raced motorcycles i would go to state and natioanl championships and it was almost a religious pilgramage, never missed one in 20 odd years and did not care if i was going to come last or first, it was about other things. Now that i drive RC, you would not get me to dole over $60-80 bucks to go to the state titles, even when they are at my home track. The reason is pretty simple too, there is no one at these events for me to race against, because club and sportsman drivers are not even concidered here, only the elite drivers.

So, sorry for the long winded post. I think the pro-mod and stock classes are pretty good how they are, but a lot of work can be done to the sportsman classes to make them more flexable and having control motor and esc in these types of classes would be a benifit to them.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:48 AM   #258
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This is how HAND OUT system work......when the mfr is providing 150 ESCs and 150 motors to the event (ie 150 entries), the organization will receive 225 ESCs and 225 motors (or even more) just to make sure those who has a faulty esc or motor will get replaced in a timely matters.

Drivers are recommended to test their hand out system prior their final installation. Some drivers, do unsolder the stock wires and run something like 12ga instead of the stock 14ga wires in black or blue or whatever. THAT, may not be eligible for the warranty issue.

There should not be anyone will complaint about the faulty ESC or MOTOR because there should be more then enough to cover these cases if that happen.

On the other hand...rental units, that is the driver's choice. I highly doubt any driver from A to D main will rent one of these unit instead of buying one. Rental is always a rental, like renting a car or renting a tools, it is an used item, and there is a reason why they are cheaper....
I thought you weren't allowed to run thicker wires?
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:52 AM   #259
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I thought you weren't allowed to run thicker wires?
You cant in ETS rules. You can replace them but must be the same size wire.

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Old 04-21-2012, 12:39 PM   #260
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Controlled classes also need to be flexible, I love the idea of VTA type racing, but 21.5T motors on Aussie tracks are just not going to work because they are going to be way way to slow. My home track as an example is 285 meters long and hosts 1/5th, 1/8 scale IC events. So anything greater than 10.5T is just never going to work in an EP class.

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We have a track outside Chicago that's 68x53x38m that runs VTA with 25.5. You just need to put more cars on the track...like 20
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:29 PM   #261
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We have a track outside Chicago that's 68x53x38m that runs VTA with 25.5. You just need to put more cars on the track...like 20
Its not the numbers of cars thats the issue, its the speed, i can drive a 17.5T around the track and never have to lift off the throtle through any turn, or brake ever at all.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:19 AM   #262
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Its not the numbers of cars thats the issue, its the speed, i can drive a 17.5T around the track and never have to lift off the throtle through any turn, or brake ever at all.
Not all Aussie tracks are that big and open.

Down here in Sydney there's a couple of tracks that are small, some a little more open and a couple of larger ones.
The "Sportsman zero timing 21.5" TC class is very popular down this way, equal to that of "Stock" at both club & inter club levels. But I generally agree that "Spec" racing is close & fun along with being somewhat easier on the wallet.
Here is a recent result of an interclub series which caters for the "spec" drivers along with the other classes. http://cc09.castlehillraceway.com/cc...ng_Report.html

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Old 04-22-2012, 06:43 AM   #263
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Not all Aussie tracks are that big and open.

Down here in Sydney there's a couple of tracks that are small, some a little more open and a couple of larger ones.
The "Sportsman zero timing 21.5" TC class is very popular down this way, equal to that of "Stock" at both club & inter club levels. But I generally agree that "Spec" racing is close & fun along with being somewhat easier on the wallet.
Here is a recent result of an interclub series which caters for the "spec" drivers along with the other classes. http://cc09.castlehillraceway.com/cc...ng_Report.html

Cheers
Rob.
You know, i keep up to date with whats happening in your interclub series through Racing Lines Magazine, and tbh i am rather envious of the health of some of the fields when compared to turn outs up here in Bisbane.

And we do have smaller tracks up here at Wynnum, Logan and Landbourough, its just that those tracks are 40min drive away from me and England Park at Brendale is 5 mins away. Work, wife and kids means generally my time is at a premium and i just dont have the time to drive there to drive the slower classes.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:35 PM   #264
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You know, i keep up to date with whats happening in your interclub series through Racing Lines Magazine, and tbh i am rather envious of the health of some of the fields when compared to turn outs up here in Bisbane.

And we do have smaller tracks up here at Wynnum, Logan and Landbourough, its just that those tracks are 40min drive away from me and England Park at Brendale is 5 mins away. Work, wife and kids means generally my time is at a premium and i just dont have the time to drive there to drive the slower classes.
Can appreciate your constraints on your free time, not every one can devote a significant amount of time to the hobby.
In that recent round I linked there were people coming from all over the state, ranging from each way trip times of just over 1 hour (me), 2+ hours, 3-4 hours right up to 6 hours each way!
We are indeed privileged to enjoy such numbers in the "spec" classes which are just as exciting to drive & watch as the racing is close.

VTA is a fledgling class here with numbers fluctuating each week, I enjoy it as it's also a spec class using the same 21.5 motors, pre 80's muscle car bodies and using the HPI vintage tires. It appealed to me because you could either bolt the VTA body & tires on to your TC or utilise an old car sitting around gathering dust.

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Old 04-23-2012, 09:26 PM   #265
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what is the major problem when going to a major race today? the major problem, as i see it, is with the companies that provide the motors to the races.

some motors are better than other motors. we all know that. but in this day and age where the "Stock" motor classes are 17.5 non-boosted, the "best" motors are not available to everyone equally.
Why do i say that? it's easy, really. last week, i went to a local track to get ready for this years Reedy Race of Champions. My car was really down on power. I talked to the owner of the company that sponsored last years 17.5 non-boosted class. After that conversation, i purchased one of his motors at the shop. the owner of the motor company checked the new motor on his motor checker, and it topped out at 42,000 rpm. i commented on the high number of rpm's, and he told me that yes, it was good, but the motors that he provided to his "team drivers" were better. i asked how much better, and he said, typically, his "team" motors revved up to 48,000, 49,000 rpm.

How can we, the non-team drivers compete with that? We are over 1/2 of a lap behind before the race even starts.

The answer is, we cant.
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:33 PM   #266
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so the next question then becomes, what can we do to make everything equal in the "Stock" class?

i think that we have to emulate, in part, what they are doing in the ETS.

Lets start with hand-out motors. That way, everyone has the same problems to overcome.

I for one would purchase a motor at an event. i think most people would, as long as it evens out the playing field.

Start with a 13.5 motor, that has a max of 10 degrees, and i think every one who competes would be happy.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:59 AM   #267
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so the next question then becomes, what can we do to make everything equal in the "Stock" class?

i think that we have to emulate, in part, what they are doing in the ETS.

Lets start with hand-out motors. That way, everyone has the same problems to overcome.

I for one would purchase a motor at an event. i think most people would, as long as it evens out the playing field.

Start with a 13.5 motor, that has a max of 10 degrees, and i think every one who competes would be happy.
Or, do what I have suggested early in this thread to even out the speed part of this idea.

A RPM limiter built into the ESC's or as an external device between the motor and sensor wire that goes to the ESC. If you put an RPM limiter in, along with a fixed maximum FDR, the end result will be that any motor will max out at a certain speed that no one can exceed. Track size can be a reason to make it a different FDR if needed at different tracks. It would eliminate the issue of special team stuff that turns off some racers, as everyone would have the same final speed. For some reason no one seems to give this idea much merit, not sure if its because the manufacturers would not like it for various reasons, or that there are some racers that feel they would lose the advantage they have with certain equipment. An RPM limit has a benefit in that it would make even battery voltage a non factor, so overcharging batteries would go away as it would not help anymore. The end result is we have racers that have to drive, and with a car that is set-up better, in order to win, not by those who have that special motor or motor, ESC and battery combination. People would use certain brands because it drives smother, or the customer service is better, size, color, etc., whatever the reason. I leave that to the manufacturers to compete with each other about. They like competition too.

Yet to hear a good reason why this kind control can't be implemented or doesn't make sense.

If you were handed a device at a race that you just plugged in between your ESC and motor that did the limiting, the only thing to tech outside of car physical parameters, would be that the device was in place, and what FDR you were running. It would be really hard to cheat with this system. End result, more satisfied racers knowing they did all they could to compete, with driving and set-up skills. Most would come off the stand like this , one or two like this , but they would be enjoying working out how to go around the corners better, instead of wondering how someone was faster down the straight.

Anyone?

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Old 04-24-2012, 06:31 AM   #268
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RPM limit is good (i.e. topspeed), but how about how fast a motor reaches that limit (i.e. acceleration)?
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:57 AM   #269
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RPM limit is good, but how about how fast a motor reaches that limit?
Its a factor, but at some point it is just part of tuning. Too much punch can be hard to handle. Tracks layouts will likely dictate what works and what doesn't. Nothing is perfect, but the RPM limit would still eliminate the idea that someones top speed is what determined the results.

If you went head to head with another driver, you cars were well prepared, you each drove perfect lines, didn't crash, etc., but one of the cars had one extra RPM, it would win. I know this is an unlikely scenario, but it is a fact, and if you could eliminate top speed as a factor, give all equal top speed, everything else would become important, i.e.; preparation, set-up and driving.

The side benefit of learning to drive with acceleration as a factor, is it would make learning throttle control important, so if you move up to Mod level you would be more prepared, since that is a contributing factor in driving well at that level.

If the goal is to have a limited speed class, "stock", the only way to get that is to "limit" the speed. You can't achieve that by "kind of" limiting the speed with methods that leave it open to get a few more RPM's out of a motor, or that there could be one motor that is faster than another with handouts, or that one motors timing marks are not equal to another, higher battery voltage and lower IR's, etc., this is why many of the ideas presented are still not ideal.

I come back to a device like I have described. The ESC manufacturers can implement this with ESC software, or manufacture the limiter to put inline, we just have to want to do it. With this inline device, you would run all your existing equipment, no money spent to change what you already own.

Mod is for "unlimited" speed.

Seems simple to me.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:53 AM   #270
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The side benefit of learning to drive with acceleration as a factor, is it would make learning throttle control important, so if you move up to Mod level you would be more prepared, since that is a contributing factor in driving well at that level.

.
There is absolutely zero throttle control required in on road with anything 13.5 and slower. Its punch it and go. Off the corner your full punch. No need for anything less anywhere I have ever run so it will teach you absolutely zero about throttle control.

And you still have the factor that this will put more emphasis on better batteries will accelerate to top speed faster out of every corner. I do agree that it would eliminate one factor but create others.

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