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Old 04-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #196
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But I am not sure how you will convince stock racers to give away a chance of a performance advantage while accepting a potential disadvantage.
Well, for what it's worth...I've already purchased my plane ticket and car rental for ROAR Paved Nats. I'm planning to run Stock TC and 1/12th. If they do a handout motor and/or ESC, I'd be more than tickled. I'll be first in line with my wallet open. It's more than worth three hours of not standing in the motor tech line.

It would make this summer a whole lot less stressful, as I'll just club race what I've got and worry about the spec power plant when I get there.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:02 PM   #197
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Did you only run D1's because that was just about all that was out there at the time? I mean if you were still running boost would you still be using your D1s? There are far more motors on the market now then there was 3 or 4 years ago when the D1 was hot. So to say that you used that motor was it by default? We both know that racers are going to buy whatever is hot new and shiny...so to really sit there and say that one class is more about motors then the other is really short sighted as they are both about motors....faster is faster don’t try to perpetrate that it doesn’t matter in boosted. It still will like it always has matter.

There is never any way to change anyone’s perception on how or why they got beat but taking away more variables will limit the amount of some of the crying ass mofo's....this is RC racing there is more crying in here then there is at the Miss Universe pageant.
Yes, by default. Nemesis, D2, Thunder Power, and LRP drivers were no faster, so I went with my default motors, and kept my money in my pocket for batteries and tires. Maybe I don't race against guys fast enough to take advantage of all those new magical motors

Marketing sells product regardless of the rules structure. You can choose to buy in, or opt out. Opting out is easier to do when what you have isn't legislated into obsolescence. When that happens you have to buy new crap.

I will say that now that we've gone blinky, I feel the ONLY logical step is to lockdown the motors. No timing, no rotors, no red-wire stators, no ceramic bearings. Then everyone has essentially the same thing, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Of course I said the same thing when we had adjustable ESC's.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:57 PM   #198
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Hi EA,

There might be another factor to the popularity of ETS, in that regular racers get a chance to race in a competition full of world champions and factory drivers. And whatever rule they put in stock, people will still join to be part of the atmosphere?

Thanks.

Joel
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:13 PM   #199
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If total lockdown occurs, i.e. motor/esc
Will more career stock drivers move up to a middle class, and possibly participate in mod occasionaly ?

That would be a win win
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:44 PM   #200
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One of the nice things I see in the ETS, is from the pics on RedRC you get a few guys in the 13.5 rocking like quite an old chassis, possibly cause regardless of who you are, you can rock up, get that combo cheap, and have a go.

Maybe with all their Mod entries, if you do give a more controlled class, some are more inclined to move up to mod?.


I still actually remember a fair bit of the threads from a couple years back, one of the largest concerns back then was, no timing on the ESC, so the next battle would be a timing war of the motors, with many saying zero would just not work unless the motors came into line also with fixed timing.

One of the things I personally wondered about back then, was in development of more timing on motors, if anybody could build dynamic timing into the actual motor (to be fair I never checked if you could legally do it).
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:50 PM   #201
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Let me ask....handout ESC and motor combo (13.5 17.5 or 21.5 or whatever)...how much will the entry fee should be? I would like to hear some solid number, not like as cheap as possible...actual $ amount.

$80? $100? per class....
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #202
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EA,

Did you ask anyone if the esc/motor combo has trickled down to being used at the club level in Europe ?

In the US, it appears to me that speed passion has tried the trickle up method, trying to get clubs to use their cirtix club esc / motor combo but so far that hasn't trickled up to the big races.

p.s. Solara , I'm not a race promoter but from a racers perspective , I think somewhere around $100-$120 is ok if one set of tires, esc and motor are taken home with the entrant. I also think its an easy decision for the company to take a loss supplying the esc/motor combo because the product will trickle down to being used at the club level. IMHO, never underestimate how much the "pro" and semi pro drivers influence their home club. Usually those are the guys that go to the big races.

Jake D.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:33 PM   #203
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EA,

Did you ask anyone if the esc/motor combo has trickled down to being used at the club level in Europe ?

In the US, it appears to me that speed passion has tried the trickle up method, trying to get clubs to use their cirtix club esc / motor combo but so far that hasn't trickled up to the big races.

p.s. Solara , I'm not a race promoter but from a racers perspective , I think somewhere around $100-$120 is ok if one set of tires, esc and motor are taken home with the entrant. I also think its an easy decision for the company to take a loss supplying the esc/motor combo because the product will trickle down to being used at the club level. IMHO, never underestimate how much the "pro" and semi pro drivers influence their home club. Usually those are the guys that go to the big races.

Jake D.

Jake,

Some have posted in this thread that a lot of clubs in Europe have adopted the ETS style for their club races. I dont know that for sure but its so well accepted I would not doubt that some clubs use the same specs.

EA
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:36 PM   #204
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Let me ask....handout ESC and motor combo (13.5 17.5 or 21.5 or whatever)...how much will the entry fee should be? I would like to hear some solid number, not like as cheap as possible...actual $ amount.

$80? $100? per class....
I would not be against 150.00-160.00 for the first class with a good 2nd class discount. Thats what IIC is now. If there is no big 2nd class discount then 100-120.00. If it averages out to around 100.00 per class I think it would be a big success. I dont think that for what ROAR offers to racers that they would be able to get more than 100-120.00 for it. But for what you get in your entry at IIC people dont mind paying it with all the extras that come with it.

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Old 04-18-2012, 03:51 PM   #205
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If each of these big races you had to purchase a $150+ entry fee. Then come back to your home tracks. To what? Sell the esc/motor you had to purchase? Why would anyone want to buy them for a decent price if the home track had a different esc/combo spec or none at all? So the next big race you spend another $150 for another esc/motor combo.

Would it be cheaper than $150 if you offered only event rentals?

If a person only attends one or two "super" events a year. This isn't that big a deal for those big spenders. But for the person who goes to like four or more a year.... Or even more the opposite end, the club/region racers who go to large races in their area. Where is the cutoff on your spec idea? Your asking for races that might usually cost $60-70 for a weekend to jump to $120+.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:00 PM   #206
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If each of these big races you had to purchase a $150+ entry fee. Then come back to your home tracks. To what? Sell the esc/motor you had to purchase? Why would anyone want to buy them for a decent price if the home track had a different esc/combo spec or none at all? So the next big race you spend another $150 for another esc/motor combo.

If a person only attends one or two "super" events a year. This isn't that big a deal for those big spenders. But for the person who goes to like four or more a year.... Or even more the opposite end, the club/region racers who go to large races in their area. Where is the cutoff on your spec idea? Your asking for races that might usually cost $60-70 for a weekend to jump to $120+.
Not if all the big races get on the same page and use the same system for each race, then you only buy once and run it 4 times, or rent it for the single race you go to................that is if you can get the big races on a common aggrement.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:11 PM   #207
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I think threads like this have gone on for years. Companies try to break into the market, other companies just watch. I don't think we can count on the sanctioning bodies to get the ball in motion.

It has to be top down. Perhaps one or two of the most successful promoters in the US will give it a try and partner with a motor/esc co. just as they have with spec tire providers. Perhaps a promotor with knowledge on how ETS operates and manages their program....
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:14 PM   #208
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I think threads like this have gone on for years. Companies try to break into the market, other companies just watch. I don't think we can count on the sanctioning bodies to get the ball in motion.

It has to be top down. Perhaps one or two of the most successful promoters in the US will give it a try and partner with a motor/esc co. just as they have with spec tire providers. Perhaps a promotor with knowledge on how ETS operates and manages their program....

If only we knew of such a person..........................
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:24 PM   #209
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Not if all the big races get on the same page and use the same system for each race, then you only buy once and run it 4 times, or rent it for the single race you go to................that is if you can get the big races on a common aggrement.
Who decides what system? What if system A is chosen over B simply because A pays the promoter more versus B which actually has better tolerances and has less variance between each motor with an ESC that has a better feel and doesn't overheat as easily? I mean, the question of one ESC company getting screwed over another when people can't choose comes into question.
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:48 PM   #210
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Sure, its a question, but like most things in life its always a compromise. Ultimately the promoter that takes the financial risk decides which combo to use.
Obviously from the racers view an inexpensive rental is best, but If a manufacturer wants thier product to trickle down to the club they would sell it at a loss to the promoter at the big events. A perfect example of a loss leader.
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