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Old 04-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
Speedo and motor. We know that there are many blinky/17.5 combinations that do well and the user has the choice of what he feels is best. I don't think US drivers will accept taking away their choice.

What works in Europe may not work here. Sure there were 95 happy stock racers which is pretty good. But more amazing to me is the fact that there were 72 HAPPYmodified racers.
Fixed that for you. A lot of the stock guys ran modified too for the extra track time and race two classes.

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Old 04-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #167
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Taken seperately:
I've never had a problem with the spec/handout motor idea. But the motor must actually be sealed, so parts cannot be interchanged. If you spec even a Monster Lock guys will start stashing rotors and replacing bearings. So now as a race director I have to tear them down anyways, and the spector of cheating continues.

As for speedos, wasn't it just a few months ago we were talking about hacked Mamba's and Novak's programming code. If those are really out there, then anytime a speedo goes home with somebody you have to worry about their cheating. Time to break out the o-scope again, so where did we really get.

Unless we're handing out speedos as well, it gets really ugly. Even then, since cheating up a speedo leaves behind little physical evidence, any multiday race becomes suspect as well when guys take cars back to their hotel room to work on them. So did we really get anywhere spec'ing a speedo? I don't think so.

Meanwhile, the only way to cheat up a motor is to get it open. Give me a brushless motor that can't be openned without leaving obvious physical evidence behind and that's something I can get behind.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:39 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by CBear3 View Post
Taken seperately:
I've never had a problem with the spec/handout motor idea. But the motor must actually be sealed, so parts cannot be interchanged. If you spec even a Monster Lock guys will start stashing rotors and replacing bearings. So now as a race director I have to tear them down anyways, and the spector of cheating continues.

As for speedos, wasn't it just a few months ago we were talking about hacked Mamba's and Novak's programming code. If those are really out there, then anytime a speedo goes home with somebody you have to worry about their cheating. Time to break out the o-scope again, so where did we really get.

Unless we're handing out speedos as well, it gets really ugly. Even then, since cheating up a speedo leaves behind little physical evidence, any multiday race becomes suspect as well when guys take cars back to their hotel room to work on them. So did we really get anywhere spec'ing a speedo? I don't think so.

Meanwhile, the only way to cheat up a motor is to get it open. Give me a brushless motor that can't be openned without leaving obvious physical evidence behind and that's something I can get behind.
Really don't know why no one are interested...try to open that up and change bearing or rotor or whatever.....





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Old 04-17-2012, 02:46 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
Really don't know why no one are interested...try to open that up and change bearing or rotor or whatever.....

"Pretty pictures"
That's the first time I've seen that motor. I haven't had one in my hands, but it looks like pretty much what I was saying
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Fixed that for you. A lot of the stock guys ran modified too for the extra track time and race two classes.
Was the Cirtix ESC okay to use in mod? Or did these drivers have a separate car/ESC combo?
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:53 PM   #171
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That's the first time I've seen that motor. I haven't had one in my hands, but it looks like pretty much what I was saying
Released for more then 6 months...no one interested.

There is 1 problem I was told why this will not work...how can the tech to open up the motor and make sure this motor is not altered from the mfr without breaking up the seal...?

It is the same question like...egg first, or chicken first....
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:54 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBear3 View Post
Taken seperately:
I've never had a problem with the spec/handout motor idea. But the motor must actually be sealed, so parts cannot be interchanged. If you spec even a Monster Lock guys will start stashing rotors and replacing bearings. So now as a race director I have to tear them down anyways, and the spector of cheating continues.

As for speedos, wasn't it just a few months ago we were talking about hacked Mamba's and Novak's programming code. If those are really out there, then anytime a speedo goes home with somebody you have to worry about their cheating. Time to break out the o-scope again, so where did we really get.

Unless we're handing out speedos as well, it gets really ugly. Even then, since cheating up a speedo leaves behind little physical evidence, any multiday race becomes suspect as well when guys take cars back to their hotel room to work on them. So did we really get anywhere spec'ing a speedo? I don't think so.

Meanwhile, the only way to cheat up a motor is to get it open. Give me a brushless motor that can't be openned without leaving obvious physical evidence behind and that's something I can get behind.
Speedo cheating is something I brought up too. Thats why if you use one brand of speedo that say cost 70.00. You put an 85.00 buy rule on it. Anyone can buy your speedo for 85.00. You get a new one and 15.00 for the trouble.

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Old 04-17-2012, 03:14 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Speedo cheating is something I brought up too. Thats why if you use one brand of speedo that say cost 70.00. You put an 85.00 buy rule on it. Anyone can buy your speedo for 85.00. You get a new one and 15.00 for the trouble.

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Didnt ROAR used to have a buy program for motors?
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:17 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Solara View Post
Released for more then 6 months...no one interested.

There is 1 problem I was told why this will not work...how can the tech to open up the motor and make sure this motor is not altered from the mfr without breaking up the seal...?

It is the same question like...egg first, or chicken first....
And I just talked my way out of the one flaw I saw (easily identify winds, but since I'm going to own them all I'll just use colored nail polish to differentiate), so who knows. It'll be in our discussions this summer thats for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAtheMainMan
Speedo cheating is something I brought up too. Thats why if you use one brand of speedo that say cost 70.00. You put an 85.00 buy rule on it. Anyone can buy your speedo for 85.00. You get a new one and 15.00 for the trouble.

EA
True, while I've never really liked claiming rules; a spec ESC that's not supposed to be tuneable is one place I wouldn't mind.

Lots of food for thought here guys. Thanks.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:32 PM   #175
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Trinity already has/had the "Monster Locked" motor. How did that work out for them? It always seemed like a solution in search of a problem. If that's what people wanted, why aren't they selling like proverbial hotcakes? They're $25 - $30 cheaper than current motors. I've only seen 1 motor at the track, when Mike Blackstock dropped one off for us to try. Trinity wanted to have us hold a spec motor race. There was no interest, even when we were already running blinky.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:37 PM   #176
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You proved my point. What about Nemesis motors, or Tekins, or Orions? They all have a spec motor line. Duo, D3, Novak and LRP at times were considered good. There also seemed to be motors that were not sought after despite the help of boost. What happened to Hacker?
You're exactly right, there were different motors. My point was that with boost the older motors could still be competitive. Now with Blinky as Mr. Hanulec so eloquently stated, it's all about motors, rotors and batteries, rather than just tuning your ESC to suit what you already have.

Blinky is essentially the same as brushed motors as far as tuning is concerned. Oh it's not fast, lemme go buy another $35 rotor.....
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:53 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by CBear3 View Post
And I just talked my way out of the one flaw I saw (easily identify winds, but since I'm going to own them all I'll just use colored nail polish to differentiate), so who knows. It'll be in our discussions this summer thats for sure.


True, while I've never really liked claiming rules; a spec ESC that's not supposed to be tuneable is one place I wouldn't mind.

Lots of food for thought here guys. Thanks.
I never liked claim rules too. Espcially if it was something that you spent a lot to time and money trying to get or find (Like batteries or motors of yesteryears) but with a speedo I dont see it as a bad thing. Buy a new one and stick it in and you got a brand new one. I dont see the downside but could be proved wrong I guess.

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Originally Posted by CarbonJoe View Post
Trinity already has/had the "Monster Locked" motor. How did that work out for them? It always seemed like a solution in search of a problem. If that's what people wanted, why aren't they selling like proverbial hotcakes? They're $25 - $30 cheaper than current motors. I've only seen 1 motor at the track, when Mike Blackstock dropped one off for us to try. Trinity wanted to have us hold a spec motor race. There was no interest, even when we were already running blinky.
Yea there was no interest as the cost of the motor was going to be too much (someone on the other end and not the gate didnt want to work with the price) and it wasnt going to be all that "big" of an event for people to justify the cost of the motor for that race.


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You're exactly right, there were different motors. My point was that with boost the older motors could still be competitive. Now with Blinky as Mr. Hanulec so eloquently stated, it's all about motors, rotors and batteries, rather than just tuning your ESC to suit what you already have.

Blinky is essentially the same as brushed motors as far as tuning is concerned. Oh it's not fast, lemme go buy another $35 rotor.....
Yea we are back to my motor aint fast so go buy another and its obvisously working about the same as before....so why not change something to what is working in other places? Try it for one big race and see what happens. You may be surprised. If it doesnt work guess what people didnt really loose out on much if they dont go.

Also boost is all but dead everywhere pretty much....especially in the true stock classes. We can give that up here in the US. I have a feeling the Snowbirds was the last big race that had a boosted class.


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Old 04-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
What works in Europe may not work here. Sure there were 95 happy stock racers which is pretty good. But more amazing to me is the fact that there were 72 modified racers.
Giant sweeping tracks like they run at ETS races tend to make Mod more attractive. Running Mod at most tracks in this country is practically suicidal for all but the most talented among us.

I think that another reason that the whole concept is so widely accepted in Europe is that they run 13.5 rather than 17.5. A 13.5 blinky set-up at least has enough power to keep you from Clamping the throttle and just sawing at the wheel.

It's a great idea for 2s TC classes. I just hope if we go through with it, we can leave 12th and WGT out of it .
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:00 PM   #179
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I know you are not comparing Europe to America ! We have far more diversity , and less time as a nation to figure it all out, but we have always done things our way regardless of whether the European way worked for them or not... Nothing's stopping you from joining them buddy ....
Yea and Americans have it all figured out right? We are a great nation
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest View Post
You're exactly right, there were different motors. My point was that with boost the older motors could still be competitive. Now with Blinky as Mr. Hanulec so eloquently stated, it's all about motors, rotors and batteries, rather than just tuning your ESC to suit what you already have.

Blinky is essentially the same as brushed motors as far as tuning is concerned. Oh it's not fast, lemme go buy another $35 rotor.....
This is total BS…..

A faster stock motor is a faster motor no matter if you are racing Blinky or Boosted…period. This is racing you’re not going to sit there and say if a faster motor comes along you’re not going to buy it or try it because you are racing with boost you will just turn your settings up…that’s about the biggest fallacy I have read on the internet in ages. To say that because of Blinky it’s more a motor game is foolish because if you were not doing these same things when it was boosted you were wasting your time because I’m sure someone else was. If you’re not trying to get 110% out of your motor then what is the point of racing a limited motor class like stock?

All a hand out motor and ESC does is takes all this and throws it out the window and makes it moot. Now you are going to have nothing to complain about other then you got out driven on the track…anyone that is against this has an ulterior motive or plainly cant see the forest for the trees from where I’m sitting.

The ETS has it right for the stock class.
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